Low Water Levels Affecting Danube, Rhine River Cruises

[DonnaMW]

14 minutes ago, pully8 said:

May we ask who is writing to you via email? Is this a person on the ship or in a corporate office somewhere?  Seems bizarre to not have accurate information at such a late stage.

We know the operators can make changes and most terms/conditions state they will contact you on writing, but timeframes are at their discretion.

Handed a letter on arrival perhaps? 

Perhaps these cruises need to be sold as mystery trips and priced to reflect that reality?

I email directly to conceige in ship. Unfortunately for them they may also be in the dark.  

[DonnaMW]

8 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

I do not understand why Vantage is giving no hint as to what will happen. I imagine that you have already made clear in your e-mail that you would like some specifics about your cruise not the general non-described wording.

 

Here is some maths. The River Voyager is 135m long. Upstream the average speed is 6 knots, lets say 11 kilometres to make it easier and forget the bits behind the comma. Amsterdam to Basel is around 950 kilometres. Not sure of exact figure. This takes us to the River Voyager needing 158.3 hours for the journey. Equals a good 6 and a half days. Perhaps less. It is Monday...

 

That is the calculation without stopping, lock waiting time, waiting in the Rhine gorge for passing traffic. Talking of the Rhine gorge. There is no way the River Voyager will get through the Rhine gorge before a level of 55cm. And that is me being positive.

 

I do not understand Vantage here. Puzzling for me, annoying for the passengers to be to say the least. If they have a ship on the Basel side, why do they not tell you so?

And if they want to have the River Voyager in Koblenz ready for you, she had better start sailing soon.

 

notamermaid

 

 

Thats funny because according to the conceige last week. My question was how long to get back to Basel. Answer was 40 hours. Not exactly the same figures you arrived at Lol.  

Well see what we are dealing with and no other ship to swap. 

Just cancel us. My neighbor is fumming considering the monies she put out for owners suite. 

Thanks for the figures

[notamermaid]

4 minutes ago, DonnaMW said:

 

Thats funny because according to the conceige last week. My question was how long to get back to Basel. Answer was 40 hours. Not exactly the same figures you arrived at Lol.  

Well see what we are dealing with and no other ship to swap. 

Just cancel us. My neighbor is fumming considering the monies she put out for owners suite. 

Thanks for the figures

40 hours?? I do not understand... Not sure who is going wrong where here. My maths?

You could track a river cruise ship on marinetraffic, the little arrows that appear when you click on past track of a ship gives you the speed. I have never seen a river cruise ship being faster than 7.5 knots upstream. I admit the canal in the Netherlands could be faster but that is a small section compared to the fast-flowing Rhine stretch.

 

notamermaid

 

[pully8]

Not familiar with the role of a concierge on a river ship perhaps its a new position? We have done several European river cruises and have had high/low water and strike events, but nothing quite like this current situation.

1 memorable high water event we were alone waiting in the lounge and were handed a letter by the cruise director, laying out terms for the early termination of the cruise and bus/hotel arrangements/compo and offer of free excursions.

We were able to hear a loud heated phone convo between the CD, and some one party to the terms in the letter.

CD did not agree with the terms the other party did, next thing we know the letter was snatched from us.

Another letter followed shortly after, different terms. Things promised on board were not delivered and our TA followed up. Several weeks later after we had arrived home, we received some compensation. There seemed to be a disconnect between what is said on board/corporate and selling agents as well as TAs.

 

[DonnaMW]

8 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

40 hours?? I do not understand... Not sure who is going wrong where here. My maths?

You could track a river cruise ship on marinetraffic, the little arrows that appear when you click on past track of a ship gives you the speed. I have never seen a river cruise ship being faster than 7.5 knots upstream. I admit the canal in the Netherlands could be faster but that is a small section compared to the fast-flowing Rhine stretch.

 

notamermaid

 

Thanks for your input. I seriously cant believe anything from them. Truly the anticipation and excitement over my first river cruise has evaporated. Luggage clothes everything thrown all over waiting. 😩😩😩

 

[pully8]

We all know things can go wrong but its how events are managed that is important.

Drip feeding bad news, or failing to inform at all is unacceptable, and reflects poorly on the operators.

If they do not know what is happening they could say so, albeit perhaps someone in authority should know at this stage.

Even the captains cannot speak freely we have found they must defer for the message to be relayed. Finding accurate up to date info is not easy.

 

 

[bubbulz]

7 minutes ago, pully8 said:

There seemed to be a disconnect between what is said on board/corporate and selling agents as well as TAs.

 

+1 

 

My TA has a Rhine cruise scheduled for early November and seems to be completely unaware of any issues on the river.

[pully8]

Can share your disappointment and frustration, our cruise and flights are not until later in the year. Nevertheless these are expensive holidays and we expect excellent service and treatment.

Including being kept informed of any major interruptions, preferably before we leave home.

we have seen reports of people being notified before boarding flights or after arrival in Europe. 

[pully8]

8 minutes ago, bubbulz said:

+1 

 

My TA has a Rhine cruise scheduled for early November and seems to be completely unaware of any issues on the river.

Amazing considering this has been going on for months and is such a severe event this time.  Ignorance is bliss??

[bubbulz]

Just now, pully8 said:

Amazing considering this has been going on for months and is such a severe event this time.  Ignorance is bliss??

I agree! He actually told me he had another client on a cruise from Amsterdam to Basel right now and there are no issues. 

[pully8]

1 minute ago, bubbulz said:

I agree! He actually told me he had another client on a cruise from Amsterdam to Basel right now and there are no issues. 

Did you tell him that's fake news?? Old saying there are none so blind as those who will not see?

 

[bubbulz]

2 minutes ago, pully8 said:

Did you tell him that's fake news?? Old saying there are none so blind as those who will not see?

 

Yep, even sent him some pics. Guess he'll find out personally soon. 

[bebtwice]

pully8 and bubbulz - Precisely my point about people being in the dark about the current conditions and who have no idea what may  - or may not - be awaiting them. I've traveled enough to know that you have to be proactive about your travel arrangements. You can't count on others, including TA's, to keep you abreast of things such as this situation or often even just changes to your flights.  Many people just go to a TA, book a trip, and then do nothing till it's time to go on their trip. That may work sometimes, but with the complexities of travel, you are asking for trouble if you don't pay attention.

 

Getting more frustrated by the minute. Looking at alternate vacation ideas for at least part of the timeframe if we are cancelled.

[cole]

We have relatives currently on Gate 1 (Danube) that originated in Prague.  They are sailing!  Have no idea how far they are going to get, but hopefully it will not be a bus trip since it is their first river cruise and we would hate for them to be disappointed.

Cole

[notamermaid]

50 minutes ago, bubbulz said:

I agree! He actually told me he had another client on a cruise from Amsterdam to Basel right now and there are no issues. 

Oh my goodness! I almost feel offended.

 

Unless that person is on a luck 110m ship this is the situation:

 

Cry me a river: https://www.apnews.com/682dc95f92d34269a0a542833f7e5bc7

 

notamermaid

 

 

Edited October 29, 2018 by notamermaid

[Roz]

Wow!  That photo says it all.

 

Roz

[Host Jazzbeau]

2 hours ago, notamermaid said:

I do not understand why Vantage is giving no hint as to what will happen. I imagine that you have already made clear in your e-mail that you would like some specifics about your cruise not the general non-described wording.

 

Here is some maths. The River Voyager is 135m long. Upstream the average speed is 6 knots, lets say 11 kilometres to make it easier and forget the bits behind the comma. Amsterdam to Basel is around 950 kilometres. Not sure of exact figure. This takes us to the River Voyager needing 158.3 hours for the journey. Equals a good 6 and a half days. Perhaps less. It is Monday...

 

That is the calculation without stopping, lock waiting time, waiting in the Rhine gorge for passing traffic. Talking of the Rhine gorge. There is no way the River Voyager will get through the Rhine gorge before a level of 55cm. And that is me being positive.

 

I do not understand Vantage here. Puzzling for me, annoying for the passengers to be to say the least. If they have a ship on the Basel side, why do they not tell you so?

And if they want to have the River Voyager in Koblenz ready for you, she had better start sailing soon.

 

notamermaid

 

I think there must be an error somewhere in the maths, because the Amsterdam to Basel itineraries are usually 7 days and that includes lots of stopping for sightseeing during the day.  It can't take 6 and a half days of non-stop sailing!

[notamermaid]

21 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

I think there must be an error somewhere in the maths, because the Amsterdam to Basel itineraries are usually 7 days and that includes lots of stopping for sightseeing during the day.  It can't take 6 and a half days of non-stop sailing!

You are right, there is a mistake somewhere. Shall try and figure it out.

Fact remains that Amsterdam to Basel is between 900 and 1000 kilometres.

 

notamermaid

 

[Mark_T]

33 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

You are right, there is a mistake somewhere. Shall try and figure it out.

Fact remains that Amsterdam to Basel is between 900 and 1000 kilometres.

 

I took a quick look, I think you divided the 950km by the knots instead of the kph.

 

So it gives 86 hours of cruising which looks more reasonable.

[planner123456]

We're leaving Wednesday on a Viking cruise from Budapest to Passau.  My sister arrived in Budapest this morning and was assured that the river levels are much improved and they aren't expecting any issues.  Also, the weather is warmer than usual which is great news to me who hates the cold.

[gnome12]

5 minutes ago, Mark_T said:

I took a quick look, I think you divided the 950km by the knots instead of the kph.

 

So it gives 86 hours of cruising which looks more reasonable.

Even that seems like a lot. That is over 3 1/2 days of full time sailing, on an itinerary that is done in about 6 1/2 days with time docked for excursions, and that has to go through locks as well.

[notamermaid]

Thanks everyone for helping out. And sorry about the confusion. It does actually take quite a while to sail from Amsterdam to Basel, I mean longer than one thinks. Top speed of a river cruise ship is not that high. 10 to 12 knots is usually given, the most I have read is a bit more than 12 knots (22.2 kilometres), 24 kilometres. The River Voyager has been recorded on marrinetraffic as doing less. The distance is less, I would calculate with 900 kilometres. Nevertheless nothing can get this down to 40 hours. I was erring somewhere and judging from my research  but the concierge I think misunderstood stood you as downstream Basel Amsterdam at 12 knots is doable in 40 hours if the distance is 880 kilometres! Again without the time waiting at locks.

 

notamermaid

 

Edited October 29, 2018 by notamermaid
autocorrect

[DonnaMW]

3 hours ago, notamermaid said:

Thanks everyone for helping out. And sorry about the confusion. It does actually take quite a while to sail from Amsterdam to Basel, I mean longer than one thinks. Top speed of a river cruise ship is not that high. 10 to 12 knots is usually given, the most I have read is a bit more than 12 knots (22.2 kilometres), 24 kilometres. The River Voyager has been recorded on marrinetraffic as doing less. The distance is less, I would calculate with 900 kilometres. Nevertheless nothing can get this down to 40 hours. I was erring somewhere and judging from my research  but the concierge I think misunderstood stood you as downstream Basel Amsterdam at 12 knots is doable in 40 hours if the distance is 880 kilometres! Again without the time waiting at locks.

 

notamermaid

 

Thank you so much for all the figures but maybe in vain. As I am writing I am in the emergency room with my husband.  He is in an assisted living but doing good. 

I hope just a visit not being admitted. 😩😩😩😩😩😩

[DonnaMW]

Oh funny thing today got call from vantage. Not what I expected. 

Wanted to know if I was interested in arranging group cruise.  I said what I haven’t been on the one this week or whether  I was going at all.   ????

[bebtwice]

Donna, have also gotten calls (though not recently) from Vantage about organizing a group cruise or referring friends & family for some incentives. Basically said I'm not doing anything until after the cruise. The longer we go without word from Vantage, the less likely I will be to refer anyone, no less organize  a group cruise. The least they could do is send an e-mail, explaining to everyone the situation, and give us a timeframe for them making a decision. At this point we're packing as if we are going (can't wait till Wednesday due to other commitments) and take things as they come.  At least we have till Thursday, but there are  others who booked their own airfare or who are doing the Lucerne pre-cruise excursion, will be leaving tomorrow.