Seabourn and the current issues surrounding the Corona Virus

[2SailingNomads]

Anyone who is getting on in Asia needs to expect that sudden changes are highly possible.  The current Crystal Symphony cruise, which originated in San Diego not Asia, was originally schedule to dock in Hong Kong.  When that was not possible the itinerary, on Jan 28th, was changed to have the segment end in Taiwan.  People had rebooked their air and a few days later it was again changed now to Singapore.  All ports since Guam had to be skipped - since Feb 2nd - they have been having sea days and having to have temperature checks twice a day.   Will be interesting if Vietnam allows the ship to stop.

[Fletcher]

1 hour ago, Flamin_June said:

 

Currently we are set to go. Canceling now would likely be very costly. Like I said elsewhere, we have to wait and see if Seabourn blinks. If Singapore, Thailand and elsewhere in the region starts to go out of control then I expect Seabourn will cancel.

If not, I am trying to be optimistic and and am warming to the possibility that as people start to cancel there will only be 50 guests on board when we set sail. The service should be phenomenal, and my concerns about an overcrowded pool area will evaporate.

Of course the nightmare scenario is that SB cancel the cruise while we are on our flight or in the few days before we board.

 

I admire your tenacity and determination . . . if you booked your air tickets with Seabourn then you have no problem.  That huge ship with only 50 passengers might seem a bit weird.

[SLSD]

Here's a good basic summary on the effect of the corona virus on cruising--both in Asia and in general.  This may or may not be new information for you, but puts a lot of information in one place:  https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/02/11/coronavirus-cruise-ships-what-does-mean-cruisers/4625691002/

 

[teamflames]

Great to see more upcoming sailors sharing their thoughts. Safe travels to flamin and the others proceeding. I agree with the other poster that we will wait until the last possible moment before deciding. As a chronic asthmatic I get concerned about respiratory viruses.

Interestingly on the fb page someone posted a link to the Straitstimes that countries are updating their travel warnings on Singapore (a couple of the Gulf nations were included), this may become relevant closer to the time that Ovation and Encore reposition to that region from Singapore. It would be interesting to know if that is why Celebrity just cancelled Singapore as an embarkation port and is sailing to Dubai without passengers?

[teamflames]

It has just been reported that the quarantined Princess ship has another 40 cases of virus contraction and one of these is a quarantine officer - this seems concerning as it means that infection is not simply from the original passenger.

[rols]

13 hours ago, Janet987 said:

Seabourn updated their Health Advisory Sunday, and again yesterday.  https://www.seabourn.com/en_US/news.html
 

Any individual who has traveled from or through mainland China, Macau, or Hong Kong within 14 days of the start of their cruise, (including transit through their airports), will not be permitted to board the ship.

February 10, 2020

 

Including transit through the airports is a tough one, I hadn't been able to work out whether the country bans which included Hong Kong, eg Philipines, banned airport transit passengers or just people who had been 'land side'. Transit through HK is how many people would usually be arriving in Asia. 

I'll be heading to New York in 3+ weeks time and I'm very conflicted about how to get there. I'd usually fly Cathay through Hong Kong but have no idea whether the US will start imposing restrictions on HK (including transit) in the same way. Then again with Singapore leading the virus caseload outside mainland China, I may not be going at all. Better book something refundable. 

[texanaust]

We were planning to take the April 17th Singapore-Dubai, but have decided against it.  Singapore may very well be the next port to ban cruise ships.  In any case we always purchase our own air and it would be a nightmare trying to change things at the last minute. 

QM2 is now skipping Singapore as an embarkation port and sailing straight to Fremantle.  If more cases are diagnosed, I would expect other cruise lines to make similar adjustments

[teamflames]

4 minutes ago, texanaust said:

We were planning to take the April 17th Singapore-Dubai, but have decided against it.  Singapore may very well be the next port to ban cruise ships.  In any case we always purchase our own air and it would be a nightmare trying to change things at the last minute. 

QM2 is now skipping Singapore as an embarkation port and sailing straight to Fremantle.  If more cases are diagnosed, I would expect other cruise lines to make similar adjustments

That is the same cruise we are booked on. Do you have a booking and cancelling or were just considering booking?

As we would be subject to penalty we will hold and wait.

[texanaust]

10 minutes ago, teamflames said:

That is the same cruise we are booked on. Do you have a booking and cancelling or were just considering booking?

As we would be subject to penalty we will hold and wait.

 

We just found out that we could get away during this period, so had planned to book this week.  If you are under penalty, I can understand a wait and see approach.  Seabourn may end up being more flexible with people cancelling as this cruise approaches.  Unfortunately we don't want to risk having to board in Colombo or somewhere else with no help from Seabourn.  

[2SailingNomads]

Hard decision to make, and gets harder every day until they can develop a, as my good friend frantic pointed out, vaccine (along w/ her sage advice about masks) - and kudos to the Aussies who have identified the strain of this (along w/ the drug maker that holds promise, Gilead: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-12/chinese-company-says-it-can-make-gilead-s-coronavirus-drug) - that can protect us all.  We left a ship that was continuing from Guam to Hong Kong 10 days ago, and based on what I've heard / read from those who stayed on I am so glad we were not going on.  They could not stop at any of the post Guam ports and had their disembarkation port changed twice (and that is not yet a done deal)  Yet just 1 year ago we were on the Ovation the entire month of February, HK R/T.  We are fortunate we booked that itinerary for last year.  To those of you booked on cruises departing from Asian ports I wish you the best as you consider your options and let's hope collectively this gets contained before it becomes a worldwide issue.

[rols]

1 hour ago, texanaust said:

Singapore may very well be the next port to ban cruise ships. 

Other way around I'd think. It's more likely (although I still think right now not very likely) that countries will start restricting people who've spend time in Singapore from disembarking and even banning cruise liners which stopped there. So the point of QM2 skipping Singapore is more likely to reduce the chances they will end up like the Westerdam, unable to dock anywhere. 

I think Singapore will continue to treat cruise ships and the passengers on them with the same rules they are already applying to air travellers. 

[SLSD]

29 minutes ago, rols said:

Other way around I'd think. It's more likely (although I still think right now not very likely) that countries will start restricting people who've spend time in Singapore from disembarking and even banning cruise liners which stopped there. So the point of QM2 skipping Singapore is more likely to reduce the chances they will end up like the Westerdam, unable to dock anywhere. 

 

I think you have this right rols.  

[texanaust]

1 hour ago, rols said:

Other way around I'd think. It's more likely (although I still think right now not very likely) that countries will start restricting people who've spend time in Singapore from disembarking and even banning cruise liners which stopped there. So the point of QM2 skipping Singapore is more likely to reduce the chances they will end up like the Westerdam, unable to dock anywhere. 

I think Singapore will continue to treat cruise ships and the passengers on them with the same rules they are already applying to air travellers. 

 

Could very well be this way.  The Singapore authorities might however decide that letting cruise ships dock is too much of a risk to the population.  Plus they probably want to devote their medical resources to taking care of their own citizens and not having to manage the care of cruise ship passengers like the Japanese. 

 

 

[rols]

7 hours ago, texanaust said:

 

Could very well be this way.  The Singapore authorities might however decide that letting cruise ships dock is too much of a risk to the population.  Plus they probably want to devote their medical resources to taking care of their own citizens and not having to manage the care of cruise ship passengers like the Japanese. 

 

 

Time will tell but this isn't really how the government here usually works. If you satisfy the immigration health requirements (currently no travel to mainland China in 14 days) they don't really care whether you come by air, sea or over the causeway. I would be super surprised if Singapore singles out cruise liners for different treatment from other travellers and hasn't historically seen cruise liners as additionally threatening, not even during the SARS outbreak a decade plus ago. Singapore remains a port and if anything ships get better treatment.

 

In contrast I think Thailand's treatment of the Westerdam was just bizarre. Their current entry requirements are the most lax in Asia, for air travellers, and I have to wonder if the health minister was just trying to make a name for himself 'banning' a liner. 

 

My ongoing take on the situation here is that Singapore continues to drift slowly towards community spread but may yet avoid the iceberg. A number of cases have popped up in recent days seemingly unrelated to others and I think (my opinion only) that the virus is spreading around but in most cases people are getting a bit sick, staying home and away from others, and getting over it. Only the small percentage of cases which get severe end up in hospital and are reported. People here are taking this very seriously and that should be a comfort to anyone visiting. Anyone with a runny nose is being sent home and told to stay there. As many people as can work from home are doing so (my wife is one such). Gatherings, sporting events, club meets, everything where people would gather have been suspended. Shops and restaurants are empty (and suffering dreadfully) and people are, as much as possible, staying home and away from other people. Contacts of confirmed cases are isolated for two weeks. 

 

Whether this is enough to push R0, the measure of transmission, below 1, the point at which the disease fizzles out I cannot say ; but I can tell you there are 6 million people on this island doing their damndest to make that happen. 

Edited February 12, 2020 by rols

[Flamin_June]

10 minutes ago, rols said:

Whether this is enough to push R0, the measure of transmission, below 1, the point at which the disease fizzles out but I can tell you there are 6 million people on this island doing their damndest to make that happen. 

Three more cases reported today for Singapore, but I endorse what rols is saying. I'm following developments in Singapore very closely via Straits Times and CNA, and am totally impressed by the national response. Unfortunately Israel and S. Korea have now issued travel advisories against travel to Singapore. I think personally these are over-reactions, but if the statements about QM2 and other vessels cancelling Singapore as a port of call are true then I fear there is a growing momentum internationally to add Singapore to the 'no-go' list. I feel some of this is politically motivated, but nonetheless there is a growing concern. Unless things take a significant down turn in the next few weeks, I worry that Seabourn will cancel our upcoming sailing, or change embarkation port. I hope it doesn't come to that.

I guess Seabourn is playing a waiting game. The more Singapore emabarking passengers that cancel themselves, the less compensation they will have to shell out.

 

[bigmjh]

With Singapore now equaling Hong Kong in the number of reported infections (50 and 50) will Singapore now become an "outlawed" or banned country for docking or transiting? I guess that time will tell. 😷

[rols]

2 hours ago, bigmjh said:

With Singapore now equaling Hong Kong in the number of reported infections (50 and 50) will Singapore now become an "outlawed" or banned country for docking or transiting? I guess that time will tell. 😷

Other way around. Singapore has had more reported cases than Hong Kong since they started counting, in fact Singapore has had more cases than anywhere else outside China (apart from that stricken cruise ship) since the outbreak. Hong Kong just 'caught up' yesterday. 

As you can see we've been discussing whether Singapore will be put on the 'banned' list for the past 7 pages, hasn't happened yet, probably will if the alert status is raised to 'red' denoting mass community spread, currently the cases are dripping in and the country is on self-imposed lockdown to try and keep it that way.

There's an article about why Singapore is leading HK in cases in the Straits Times today. Since it is in the Singapore local newspaper you can presume it was written with a Singapore bias, but I don't discount it just for that. 

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/coronavirus-why-hong-kong-doesnt-have-far-more-confirmed-cases-than-singapore

[bigmjh]

rols - The COVID-19 information that I've been following (and has also been used by a number of news reports) is the one from John Hopkins: John Hopkins CSSE  Data here is compiled from multiple sources (WHO, CDC, NHC, etc) and is updated in near-real time. Data on this particular dashboard showed Singapore trailing Hong Kong up until about 12 hours ago. But, as you pointed out, nothing will change until Singapore's status is raised to 'red'.

[rols]

3 hours ago, bigmjh said:

rols - The COVID-19 information that I've been following (and has also been used by a number of news reports) is the one from John Hopkins: John Hopkins CSSE  Data here is compiled from multiple sources (WHO, CDC, NHC, etc) and is updated in near-real time. Data on this particular dashboard showed Singapore trailing Hong Kong up until about 12 hours ago. But, as you pointed out, nothing will change until Singapore's status is raised to 'red'.

I can't see history on that site, just current numbers, but I can assure you that Singapore has had more cases than HK until Tuesday. There are numerous articles about it, not just the ST one I linked to but South China Morning post and others. It was big news here when we stopped being the 'second sick man of Asia' after mainland China. There was a general feeling that HK's numbers were a bit on the low side given they still have 3 land borders with China open. 

[Cantara24]

RE: The data presented on the GIS Dashboard set up by John Hopkins CSSE. A very welcome tool and available to the public, thanks for that link.

It is an automated data collection of numbers and as stated by the creators it remains subject to reliance on correct reporting including that of less developed countries and manual input from social media/news feeds.

 

Incorrect data in = incorrect data out, so it is “not gospel” but certainly not to be discounted.

 

For those interested, here is link to the blog discussing this (particularly the Feb 11/20 update):

https://systems.jhu.edu/research/public-health/ncov/

 

I for one have more confidence in Singapore’s response than Hong Kong.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Cantara24

[Flamin_June]

I get my data updates from Worldometer https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

where I find the layout easier to take in. Both have virtualy the same figures - worldometer  looks to be a tad more up to date.

Currently HK on 51 and Singapore on 50. I check figures at home (GMT) in the early evening and again the next morning. There has been a regular overnight increase in SGP of a few cases over recent days, but this morning the SGP count stayed at 50 from last night. A small crumb of hope, though I expect there will be further increases.It is worth pointing that last time I looked there were 15 recovered and discharged people, so the ACTUAL number of cases being treated in SGP is in fact 35. I do agree with Cantara24 that the SGP res[onse is impressive. Updates are frequent - there is information about each case, where they live, work, where they had spent significant time, contacts are being effectively traced and clusters identified. There is a wealth of public information media, with advice on how to wear masks, how to wash hands peoperly, how we think the virus is being spread, taxi drivers having two temperature checks a day and issued with face masks to give to passengers, + regular cleaning down of taxi interiors. Health chiefs and people in senior positions taking responsibility and making statements.

Until we hear different from SB or our government, we are still intending to travel to Singapore early March.

 

[Flamin_June]

Oh well...

unwarranted optimism.

8 more cases in SGP just reported. All linked to two known clusters.

Ovation disembarks in SGP on Saturday. We wait, with fingers crossed, to see if any current passengers report symptoms in next few days.

[SLSD]

1 hour ago, Flamin_June said:

Oh well...

unwarranted optimism.

8 more cases in SGP just reported. All linked to two known clusters.

Ovation disembarks in SGP on Saturday. We wait, with fingers crossed, to see if any current passengers report symptoms in next few days.

I sincerely hope that no Seabourn passengers report symptoms or are shown to have contracted the virus.  That would be a disaster.  I have to admit that I am surprised that SB has not high tailed it out of Asia by now as several other cruise lines have don't that.  I am hoping for the best for Seabourn and for everyone traveling with them. 

 

Here's the latest about Ovation from the Bangkok News.  Screening showed no corona virus--of course screening is not the same thing as testing (which is very invasive from what I have read).  I hope all goes well for everyone.  https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1856709/cruise-ship-docks-in-phuket-passengers-free-of-virus?fbclid=IwAR3mLdd6_tthOQEq44mebaBXPMw3ORuJfggJ-0cU4NhM9C1LhZ6d6jV3Cc0

 

Edited February 13, 2020 by SLSD

[MightyQuinn]

11 hours ago, Flamin_June said:

I get my data updates from Worldometer https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

where I find the layout easier to take in. Both have virtualy the same figures - worldometer  looks to be a tad more up to date.

 

That's an excellent site.  Thanks for the link. 

We're booked on a Crystal cruise departing March 16 which was initially round-trip Hong Kong, then round-trip Taipei and now round-trip Singapore.  Our revised itinerary includes calls in Malaysia, Thailand and Myanmar.  The Worldometer site provides data on most of those countries.  I'm more than a little interested in how Singapore responds to the virus, particularly as it relates to port closures to cruise ships.  We couldn't take yet another change in our embarkation/disembarkation port!  So I check in here to read the latest from Rols.

Flamin_June, is Seabourn offering you FCC if you cancel voluntarily?  If so, is there a deadline for you to notify them of your intent?  Crystal has offered us 100% FCC if we choose not to sail but we must notify them by Feb 21, which seems a bit too soon given the rapidly evolving situation. 

[oceanviewer21]

What happens if I arrive at Seabourn check in in Singapore with ordinary flu and temperature?  Or even just sweating from the stress and heat. Will I be denied boarding? If so I don’t think it’s even worth going as  one of us always catches something on the plane.