Child Suffered Due to Lack of Passports

[ducklite]

20 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Yes, if a military member wants to stray too far from the ship or station they would need a passport. And the article does say that a direct flight to the US with military orders and ID is permissible (which the soldiers did once they realized that they couldn't layover in Canada without a passport). The farthest away from my ship that I ever went was 140 miles on a ship sponsored tour of Rome from Naples. Some activities might be hampered by not having a passport, too. A friend and I were denied entry into a casino in Nice, France because we lacked passports so we had to find something else to do. (I had no trouble entering Monte Carlo in Monaco without one.) I stayed in a hotel in Cartagena, Spain and I believe they made a copy of my ID. 

So you weren't traveling between countries, only shore leave in countries the ship visited.  HUGE difference.

[clo]

2 minutes ago, ducklite said:

BIL and Sister traveled a lot when they were stationed there in the 80's and needed a passport to do so.  I'd like to see anyone try to get into Germany for example from a non-Schengen country using a US military ID.  Unless they are accompanied by official orders, it's not going to happen.  

If I had to make guess that's what I would have guessed.

 

Oops. Just found this:

https://www.us-passport-service-guide.com/can-i-use-my-military-passport-to-travel-for-vacation.html

[sparks1093]

25 minutes ago, ducklite said:

So you weren't traveling between countries, only shore leave in countries the ship visited.  HUGE difference.

Hmmm, I was traveling from Spain to France, etc. but on my ship. I also flew several times between spots in Europe and the US and vice versa. (And I flew back to the states once because of an issue at home and back again, not required to obtain a passport.) 

 

My point is still valid- I traveled quite extensively without a passport which is why I don't look at them the same way as others. And it's travel that can still be done today as this is also an exception to the rule.

Edited February 17, 2020 by sparks1093

[ducklite]

Just now, sparks1093 said:

Hmmm, I was traveling from Spain to France, etc. but on my ship. My point is still valid- I traveled quite extensively without a passport which is why I don't look at them the same way as others. And it's travel that can still be done today as this is also an exception to the rule.

Again, you were on official shore leave in a country that ship had been accepted. to.  Had you tried to cross a border into a different country (assuming in/out of Schengen), you would have been refused.  You are trying to compare apples to oranges, and your comparison is irrelevant  

[sparks1093]

1 minute ago, ducklite said:

Again, you were on official shore leave in a country that ship had been accepted. to.  Had you tried to cross a border into a different country (assuming in/out of Schengen), you would have been refused.  You are trying to compare apples to oranges, and your comparison is irrelevant  

My point is still valid- I traveled plenty without a passport and that's why I look at things the way that I do. 

[ducklite]

16 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

My point is still valid- I traveled plenty without a passport and that's why I look at things the way that I do. 

 

Your situation was unique and certainly not at all relevant to anyone taking a cruise.  Again, irrelevant and very misleading to anyone on these boards.

[ldubs]

6 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

I won't debate that a passport is the best travel document you can have, but it's not necessarily the best practice for some. I live in a border town and many of my friends and neighbors cross that border regularly for business and pleasure. It's the only type of foreign travel they are ever going to do. They all use either a passport card or Enhanced Drivers License (which is issued by only 5 states, Vermont being one of them). They would scoff at any suggestion that they obtain a passport. There are also people who only travel via closed loop cruise once every year or two. It's the only type of foreign travel they can do, at least right now. If they decide that they can use an alternative to a passport since it meets their needs what's that to anyone else? 

 

Of course there are always exceptions.   And I agree no skin off my nose.  

[ldubs]

The thread is getting kind of trollish with the name calling.  

[sparks1093]

26 minutes ago, ducklite said:

 

Your situation was unique and certainly not at all relevant to anyone taking a cruise.  Again, irrelevant and very misleading to anyone on these boards.

I never claimed it was, I was simply describing my personal situation and outlook based on my experience, just as others have done (who have also talked about travel and situations irrelevant for cruising).

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, sparks1093 said:

Hmmm, I was traveling from Spain to France, etc. but on my ship. I also flew several times between spots in Europe and the US and vice versa. (And I flew back to the states once because of an issue at home and back again, not required to obtain a passport.) 

 

My point is still valid- I traveled quite extensively without a passport which is why I don't look at them the same way as others. And it's travel that can still be done today as this is also an exception to the rule.

Early on, I flew a number of times between the US and Europe - and between countries: Portugal, Morocco, UK and Italy, as I recall - without a passport, just with military ID - but I was travelling under orders and on military (or military chartered) aircraft.  What sort of flights were you talking about?

[sanger727]

5 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Almost everything is ultimately about money.  In this case the reason passports were part  of the story is that people want to save money by not bothering to get passports.

 

 But if she had passports she still would have had the same issues of not being able to pay for the medical treatment her son received on the ship, being mad that the ship threatened to take action against her for not paying, and very possibly couldn't have afforded last minute tickets for her family to fly home either. I suspect that having had passports would have changed very little about this story. She was primarily giving her sob story to strangers to get them to give her money.

[sparks1093]

10 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Early on, I flew a number of times between the US and Europe - and between countries: Portugal, Morocco, UK and Italy, as I recall - without a passport, just with military ID - but I was travelling under orders and on military (or military chartered) aircraft.  What sort of flights were you talking about?

In some instances commercial air but in all instances with military ID and orders. As I said before even if one is flying on a military or chartered flight one is still sent through Customs/Immigration.

[clo]

2 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

My point is still valid- I traveled plenty without a passport and that's why I look at things the way that I do. 

Was this travel for business or pleasure?

[sparks1093]

Just now, clo said:

Was this travel for business or pleasure?

I don't see the relevance but since I was under orders I would have to say business. 

[Warm Breezes]

On 2/15/2020 at 2:10 PM, Elaine5715 said:

What I posted is from the Department of State.  What you have claim to be exemptions are fables posted here.  

You might want to do your research.  Those were true exemptions that Sparks was referencing that  were posted here  and in the media in real time as it was happening and are available for all to "google" if they don't believe. 

[ducklite]

1 hour ago, sparks1093 said:

I don't see the relevance but since I was under orders I would have to say business. 

It is entirely relevant.  Look at the link clo posted in #252.

 

You are muddying the waters with your experience while in the Navy.  That is not the experience that a person taking a cruise vacation will have.

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, ducklite said:

It is entirely relevant.  Look at the link clo posted in #252.

 

You are muddying the waters with your experience while in the Navy.  That is not the experience that a person taking a cruise vacation will have.

Good point -- he just came away with memories of not needing a passport.  While the current closed loop cruises permit travelling without one, you should consider the hassle of having to come back on your own.  While it probably wont happen - having to do it is not as easy as the optimistic posters want to think (and, indirectly, to convince you).

[Toofarfromthesea]

12 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

I advise people to use their head and make their own decisions based on their own needs and risk factors. I don't second guess their decision because I haven't enough data about them. Again, their decision to travel without a passport doesn't affect you in the slightest so there's hardly a need to disparagingly label them. 

 

But in the process you are minimizing the potential difficulties they may run into that they cannot really assess and make a decision on because of a lack of knowledge - which is why people come here to ask.  Your strange obsession is leading some people down the primrose path.

[Toofarfromthesea]

6 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

My point is still valid- I traveled plenty without a passport and that's why I look at things the way that I do. 

 

And is no basis for telling people that traveling without a passport is no big deal based on your travels without a passport in a circumstance that don't apply to them.

[clo]

7 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

I don't see the relevance but since I was under orders I would have to say business. 

Of course, it's relevant. You were serving in the military and traveling on military business. Whereas my husband had his passport and traveled Europe extensively. For the life of my I don't understand why you are doing this.

[CPT Trips]

It sure would have been enlightening if someone had indicated that their worldly travels and living in other countries had been under military auspices. 

Fact is even military need passports for leisure international travel not under orders. And, they may need a passport to enter other countries even with orders.
 

 

[clo]

3 minutes ago, CPT Trips said:

It sure would have been enlightening if someone had indicated that their worldly travels and living in other countries had been under military auspices. 

 

Would have saved some time, huh?

[Underwatr]

A long time ago when I was in the Navy I spent a couple of weeks in the UK while my shipmates flew back to the US on a charter. I only had a military ID and flew home from Heathrow to JFK with no complications.

 

I might have had a piece of paper which constituted orders but I really can't remember that.

 

[sparks1093]

14 hours ago, ducklite said:

It is entirely relevant.  Look at the link clo posted in #252.

 

You are muddying the waters with your experience while in the Navy.  That is not the experience that a person taking a cruise vacation will have.

And once again I never, ever claimed that it was. I was pointing out my experience. I don't see you criticizing anyone else citing their personal experience even though that has no relevance to cruising on closed loop cruises, either, and that includes yourself.

[sparks1093]

12 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Good point -- he just came away with memories of not needing a passport.  While the current closed loop cruises permit travelling without one, you should consider the hassle of having to come back on your own.  While it probably wont happen - having to do it is not as easy as the optimistic posters want to think (and, indirectly, to convince you).

Yes, I have acknowledged, repeatedly, that people should consider the hassle of having to come back IF something happens. The regulations do contain provisions to waive the passport requirement for an emergency or for humanitarian reasons, that's one of my main points. There will be delay in getting back, I have acknowledged that. What I question is those posts that say it's going to be a "nightmare" or it's going to take "days" or some other scare tactic. I have pointed out what others have reported as their experience. And I have also pointed out that what happens depends entirely on the individual circumstances- missing the ship because one is over-served at Senor Frogs is likely going to receive a different response than a medical emergency would, but even then the government is going to assist the passenger in getting home with as little delay as possible. The government isn't going to punitively make a traveler jump through unnecessary hoops just because they were "unwise" in their decisions. Of course if one misses the ship and wants to catch up to the ship for some reason, such as they still have family onboard, they would need a passport to do that (another consideration that may or may not apply).