Carnival continues to move employees home

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

NCL yesterday said it is putting the majority of its fleet into long-term parking.
   "The majority of ships in the Company's fleet are currently transitioning to cold layup." 

   https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2020/04/27/2022503/0/en/Norwegian-Cruise-Line-Holdings-Ltd-Provides-Business-Update.html

 

That follows the early April SEC filing by CCL, in which the company announced “We currently estimate the substantial majority of our fleet will be in prolonged ship layup.”

   https://www.carnivalcorp.com/static-files/8912eb63-49dd-4a1e-856a-8c2e316b3316 
 

 
   Cruising simply is NOT coming back in the forseeable future.

   So if some CC members wish to keep building their expectations while putting down $$ for trips that won't happen, well ... enjoy. But the rest of CC members can save themselves disappointment and expense by looking beyond phony "optimism."   

Now you are calling people here phony

Edited April 28, 2020 by jimbo5544

[jimbo5544]

13 hours ago, Stick93 said:

It means not all ships are sailing. Who makes the cut and who doesn’t...

Carnival, as it should be.  

[ohioNCLcruiser]

4 hours ago, xDisconnections said:

I’m told by the brand ambassador that cruising will be back to normal by the end of June similar to the previous expected timelines. I have good faith in this information and hope he is correct 🙂

 

Take what John says as a grain of salt in terms of all this. He is a great guy but at the end of the day he is saying what he can say. Plus your quote shows exactly why it should only be taken as a grain of salt. "We will be back to normal by the end of June, similar to the previous expected timelines" and we know how well those previous expected timelines turned out. John is nice but he is definitely following the orders from corporate.  I'm on the Aug 29th Panorama sailing and coming up with some backup trip ideas since I would be shocked if this cruise happened sadly. 

[jimbo5544]

13 minutes ago, ohioNCLcruiser said:

 

Take what John says as a grain of salt in terms of all this. He is a great guy but at the end of the day he is saying what he can say. Plus your quote shows exactly why it should only be taken as a grain of salt. "We will be back to normal by the end of June, similar to the previous expected timelines" and we know how well those previous expected timelines turned out. John is nice but he is definitely following the orders from corporate.  I'm on the Aug 29th Panorama sailing and coming up with some backup trip ideas since I would be shocked if this cruise happened sadly. 

The quoted poster was speaking tongue in cheek and well aware of John.  John is an employee of Carnival and their brand spokesperson.  All that said, Carnival (and mostly by way of John being the communicator) can only do what they can do.  They have aggressively tried to start cruising again, the virus (all virgin territory here and we ALL are learning as we go) and governmental agencies that have the cruise industry in the cross hairs (unfairly so in my opinion) dictate otherwise.  We could discuss the steps of what Carnival has done to mitigate everything they can if that is fruitful.  

[xDisconnections]

17 minutes ago, ohioNCLcruiser said:

 

Take what John says as a grain of salt in terms of all this. He is a great guy but at the end of the day he is saying what he can say. Plus your quote shows exactly why it should only be taken as a grain of salt. "We will be back to normal by the end of June, similar to the previous expected timelines" and we know how well those previous expected timelines turned out. John is nice but he is definitely following the orders from corporate.  I'm on the Aug 29th Panorama sailing and coming up with some backup trip ideas since I would be shocked if this cruise happened sadly. 

If you don’t think your cruise is going to happen, you should reach out to him for some advice and reassurance 😉

 

Why wouldn’t his information be accurate? He says they’re going to be back to normal by the end of a June.

[jimbo5544]

1 minute ago, xDisconnections said:

If you don’t think your cruise is going to happen, you should reach out to him for some advice and reassurance 😉

 

Why wouldn’t his information be accurate? He says they’re going to be back to normal by the end of a June.

I am sure John means what he says as does Carnival.  Whether the demon CDC agrees is still up for discussion.  Why don’t you contact John for the poster?

[ohioNCLcruiser]

5 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

If you don’t think your cruise is going to happen, you should reach out to him for some advice and reassurance 😉

 

Why wouldn’t his information be accurate? He says they’re going to be back to normal by the end of a June.

Because he said the same thing when asked if my Mardi Gras inaugural was cancelled, my back-up Mardi Gras cruise and then my Norwegian Legend cruise that were cancelled. He is saying what their plan/information is at the moment. Just like he originally said the mid May re-start date was accurate a few weeks ago. 

 

I think cruise lines will follow similar to what Las Vegas does. I know July 7th MGM Resorts plans to open two properties on the strip (Bellagio and Aria) before doing others. I think whenever cruising does resume, we will see a few ships to "get their feet wet" and see how it goes. My friend at NCL corporate says they expect some ships to not be sailing for over a year. Another friend predicts no cruises will happen this year so we will see. If cruises were starting in June they would not be ferrying ships around the world to bring the crew home. Some of these people have just started their contracts. Just lines know they can't afford another PR disaster like the Diamond Princess incident. They are not going to start until they know they have everything they need in place before hand. Testing, temperature checks etc. 

Edited April 28, 2020 by ohioNCLcruiser

[jimbo5544]

5 minutes ago, ohioNCLcruiser said:

Because he said the same thing when asked if my Mardi Gras inaugural was cancelled, my back-up Mardi Gras cruise and then my Norwegian Legend cruise that were cancelled. He is saying what their plan/information is at the moment. Just like he originally said the mid May re-start date was accurate a few weeks ago. 

 

I think cruise lines will follow similar to what Las Vegas does. I know July 7th MGM Resorts plans to open two properties on the strip (Bellagio and Aria) before doing others. I think whenever cruising does resume, we will see a few ships to "get their feet wet" and see how it goes. My friend at NCL corporate says they expect some ships to not be sailing for over a year. Another friend predicts no cruises will happen this year so we will see. If cruises were starting in June they would not be ferrying ships around the world to bring the crew home. Some of these people have just started their contracts. Just lines know they can't afford another PR disaster like the Diamond Princess incident. They are not going to start until they know they have everything they need in place before hand. Testing, temperature checks etc. 

I am not sure NCL can survive shuttering ships for that long

[beerman2]

15 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

If you don’t think your cruise is going to happen, you should reach out to him for some advice and reassurance 😉

 

Why wouldn’t his information be accurate? He says they’re going to be back to normal by the end of a June.

As Jimbo5544 stated it's in the hands of the CDC( whether right or wrong) and the last CDC order  said no sail for 100 days which would be July 24th.

 

Believe want you want, the facts State otherwise.

[xDisconnections]

1 minute ago, beerman2 said:

As Jimbo5544 stated it's in the hands of the CDC( whether right or wrong) and the last CDC order  said no sail for 100 days which would be July 24th.

 

Believe want you want, the facts State otherwise.

Oh, okay 👍

[Stick93]

4 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Well there is an optimistic view.  When is “at some point”, fall, winter, 2021, 2030?  At some point we need to take possession of our lives.  NOBODY is suggesting for that to happen before we can mitigate concerns.  If, for you, that means no cases any where in the country getting sick, that’s fine, but not for me.  Life at its fullest deserves to be lived that way, not carelessly, but not in a bubble.  Just my two cents, your opinion sounds different.

Optimistic? Trying to be realistic.
With what we know today there is no possible way that we could keep the staff safe if passengers are getting on the ship with the virus. Most passengers will actually be fine because the cruise is maybe shorter from anywhere starting at three days to seven days. But if the staff, who usually live in closer contact to each other get infected than it will spread like wild fire and you can see a ship losing half its staff in a 2 week period. 
Again,  and I stress it - TODAY - this is what we know. I have no problems with cruise ships leaving and people wanting to go on them today but the reality is that can’t be done.

That does not mean that within the next little while a breakthrough will be made and this will change all of our thoughts and minds and cruising will go forward. 

[jimbo5544]

13 minutes ago, Stick93 said:

Optimistic? Trying to be realistic.
With what we know today there is no possible way that we could keep the staff safe if passengers are getting on the ship with the virus. Most passengers will actually be fine because the cruise is maybe shorter from anywhere starting at three days to seven days. But if the staff, who usually live in closer contact to each other get infected than it will spread like wild fire and you can see a ship losing half its staff in a 2 week period. 
Again,  and I stress it - TODAY - this is what we know. I have no problems with cruise ships leaving and people wanting to go on them today but the reality is that can’t be done.

That does not mean that within the next little while a breakthrough will be made and this will change all of our thoughts and minds and cruising will go forward. 

Well based on today, that is arguable, based on where each person is.  If we learn from this exercise, I hope one thing we all learn is one size fits all.  Where you and I disagree is the path to future.  For me, control, mitigation, caution and concern rule.  It does not have ro be black or white.  For those that need to have the black or white (it is their decision, or at least should be once we are in control) thats fine for them, and they very well may never cruise again.  Not for me, your opinion may vary.   

[Stick93]

47 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Well based on today, that is arguable, based on where each person is.  If we learn from this exercise, I hope one thing we all learn is one size fits all.  Where you and I disagree is the path to future.  For me, control, mitigation, caution and concern rule.  It does not have ro be black or white.  For those that need to have the black or white (it is their decision, or at least should be once we are in control) thats fine for them, and they very well may never cruise again.  Not for me, your opinion may vary.   

Where we differ is in the staff. People may have been infected and feel that will protect them going forward. If the number is at best 25% at this point then you have large numbers or passengers and staff that are not protected. I agree one size doesn’t fit all and it’s arguable that the death rate is so low is healthy people that the risk is worth taking for a vacation. 
 

 We all have a choice. The staff may not. The staff that we all love and care and want to make sure they are taken care of. 
 

If we believe cruising could be back - I am sure we all would have no issues signing our rights away if anything happens. The staff could be so desperate that they will do it and from the looks of this site many passengers  would do the same.  

[BlerkOne]

4 hours ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

 

That follows the early April SEC filing by CCL, in which the company announced “We currently estimate the substantial majority of our fleet will be in prolonged ship layup.”

   https://www.carnivalcorp.com/static-files/8912eb63-49dd-4a1e-856a-8c2e316b3316 
 

 
   Cruising simply is NOT coming back in the forseeable future.

   So if some CC members wish to keep building their expectations while putting down $$ for trips that won't happen, well ... enjoy. But the rest of CC members can save themselves disappointment and expense by looking beyond phony "optimism."   

 

From your same source, Carnival is keeping some ships in warm ship layup where they will be FULLY staffed. Why would they do that if cruising were not coming back in the foreseeable future?

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

19 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

From your same source, Carnival is keeping some ships in warm ship layup where they will be FULLY staffed. Why would they do that if cruising were not coming back in the foreseeable future?

 

 

Well, for one thing they'd have an even deeper problem pocketing the down payments for summer/fall cruises if every ship were mothballed. 

 

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

 

 

Well, for one thing they'd have an even deeper problem pocketing the down payments for summer/fall cruises if every ship were mothballed. 

 

 

Even the "mothballed" ships have some crew. The ships still need to be maintained.

 

Every cruise line pre-sells new build ships before they are launched. How is that different?

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

18 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Even the "mothballed" ships have some crew. The ships still need to be maintained.
 

Every cruise line pre-sells new build ships before they are launched. How is that different?

 

 

Your question was why they'd keep a small number of ships in warm layup. 

As you surely know from the deluge of complaints on the CC boards for the past six weeks, the cruise lines have a deep credibility crisis. They keep selling new cruises, then cancel in waves - sometimes very close to the sailing dates.  From those complaints, it sounds like an awful lot of fellow CC members have endured hours (and hours) of trying to get through on customer service lines.

Some cruisers are fine with that. But many are furious that these foreign companies pocket their deposits & then take up to 90 days for refunds ... and some of us on CC view the alternative offer of 125% future credit as just bait in an ongoing Ponzi scheme. 
 

So .... if every Carnival ship were in long-term parking, perhaps even a couple of the diehard "optimists" here might have a tougher time defending CCL as it continued advertising June, July and August cruises.

As for new-builds, there's no comparison right now because this isn't a normal time. In a regular year, the worst that might happen with a typical new build is a couple of weeks or months delivery delay ... with customers getting refunds promptly.  No so right now, of course. 
    

[LHP]

4 hours ago, ohioNCLcruiser said:

 

Take what John says as a grain of salt in terms of all this. He is a great guy but at the end of the day he is saying what he can say. Plus your quote shows exactly why it should only be taken as a grain of salt. "We will be back to normal by the end of June, similar to the previous expected timelines" and we know how well those previous expected timelines turned out. John is nice but he is definitely following the orders from corporate.  I'm on the Aug 29th Panorama sailing and coming up with some backup trip ideas since I would be shocked if this cruise happened sadly. 

 

Considering the last paragraph of CCL’s latest Corporate filing on Page 24... That Escapefrom Connecticut “ was kind enough to direct me too...

 

 “We currently estimate the substantial majority of our fleet will be in prolonged ship layup.“

 

Time to face reality.

[Purvis1231]

8 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Of course, all opinions count.  The one sided media view of cruising can certainly influence our views.  One might say over the top broadcasting.  I cannot argue the build market has gone crazy, they were at all time highs, whether they can fill these ships in the future remains to be seen.  I beleive the backlog of people who want to cruise to be strong, almost amazingly strong.  There will be no selling of assets on pennies on the dollars.  Carnival would love to sell some of their older fleet, and have had them on the market for a while (most notably Fantasy, for about 30 mill). That said, it would make zero sense to auction these assets off under price, it will not happen.

Jimbo, I hope you are right. I do not want to be negative since my family loves cruising. We have one booked for July and another in November.  One thing the cruise industry (and many others) need is a bill that could grant liability protection from COVID-19.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Purvis1231
typo

[jimbo5544]

3 hours ago, Stick93 said:

Where we differ is in the staff. People may have been infected and feel that will protect them going forward. If the number is at best 25% at this point then you have large numbers or passengers and staff that are not protected. I agree one size doesn’t fit all and it’s arguable that the death rate is so low is healthy people that the risk is worth taking for a vacation. 
 

 We all have a choice. The staff may not. The staff that we all love and care and want to make sure they are taken care of. 
 

If we believe cruising could be back - I am sure we all would have no issues signing our rights away if anything happens. The staff could be so desperate that they will do it and from the looks of this site many passengers  would do the same.  

There are no guarantees in life, they can get sick just as easy in the native countries.  They are intelligent and decide and make their own decisions, they do not need us.  Just like workers in grocery stores, airports and airlines, restaurants.  How do you know they do not have a choice?

[Stick93]

Just now, jimbo5544 said:

There are no guarantees in life, they can get sick just as easy in the native countries.  They are intelligent and decide and make their own decisions, they do not need us.  Just like workers in grocery stores, airports and airlines, restaurants.  How do you know they do not have a choice?

yup cruise workers are essential -

Putting them at risk to serve vacationers who don't care about risks or just live the moment is equal to people making sure we eat or running travel that I hope people are doing out of necessity (if not it may be comparable). 

They have a choice if you call living in a third world country with no way of making money and leaving for 6-9 months because you love to work 7 days a week and 12-18 hours a day for a meager living. I am sure the opportunities at home are much better - But you have to take risks to make those millions!

[jimbo5544]

4 minutes ago, Stick93 said:

yup cruise workers are essential -

Putting them at risk to serve vacationers who don't care about risks or just live the moment is equal to people making sure we eat or running travel that I hope people are doing out of necessity (if not it may be comparable). 

They have a choice if you call living in a third world country with no way of making money and leaving for 6-9 months because you love to work 7 days a week and 12-18 hours a day for a meager living. I am sure the opportunities at home are much better - But you have to take risks to make those millions!

Same story for millions of Americans.  I thank God every day I am retired.  If you want to feel for cruise workers feel for the poor slobs stuck on the cruise ships now and no way to get home.  Huge disservice on the worlds part

[Stick93]

2 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Same story for millions of Americans.  I thank God every day I am retired.  If you want to feel for cruise workers feel for the poor slobs stuck on the cruise ships now and no way to get home.  Huge disservice on the worlds part

People in America have much more opportunity - There are exceptions to that, but I don't think anyone would want to be born in most of the places they find these workers. 

I give credit of the workers that smile and work like soldier to make out vacations amazing - G-d bless them now and in the future. 

[jimbo5544]

29 minutes ago, Stick93 said:

People in America have much more opportunity - There are exceptions to that, but I don't think anyone would want to be born in most of the places they find these workers. 

I give credit of the workers that smile and work like soldier to make out vacations amazing - G-d bless them now and in the future. 

I have always said they are Carnivals best asset, to many people that work there, including senior mgt., they always agree.  

[BlerkOne]

3 hours ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

 

Your question was why they'd keep a small number of ships in warm layup. 

As you surely know from the deluge of complaints on the CC boards for the past six weeks, the cruise lines have a deep credibility crisis. They keep selling new cruises, then cancel in waves - sometimes very close to the sailing dates.  From those complaints, it sounds like an awful lot of fellow CC members have endured hours (and hours) of trying to get through on customer service lines.

Some cruisers are fine with that. But many are furious that these foreign companies pocket their deposits & then take up to 90 days for refunds ... and some of us on CC view the alternative offer of 125% future credit as just bait in an ongoing Ponzi scheme. 
 

So .... if every Carnival ship were in long-term parking, perhaps even a couple of the diehard "optimists" here might have a tougher time defending CCL as it continued advertising June, July and August cruises.

As for new-builds, there's no comparison right now because this isn't a normal time. In a regular year, the worst that might happen with a typical new build is a couple of weeks or months delivery delay ... with customers getting refunds promptly.  No so right now, of course. 
    

 

Nothing about this is normal yet you are judging cruise lines as if it were. If you listen to some supreme politicians, this pandemic over before it began and perhaps never happened.

 

A cruise line can't go from 0 to 60 in a second - they have to have an entire supply chain that needs to ramp up as well.

 

When you come back to reality, perhaps you will realize that cruises have to be sold in advance of them happening - usually years in advance, but now only a few months for some.