ABC Four Corners Monday Night 8:30pm

[nnps]

7 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Then there was her statement "As far as I'm concerned they put the mighty dollar first and they never put our safety first."

 

I wonder what Ms Temple's reaction would have been in Princess had announced that there was a suspicion, just a suspicion, that there was Covid-19 on the ship and that everyone should stay in their cabins? Methinks she would be screaming about her holiday being ruined because the cruise line wouldn't let her have any fun. 🙄 Or would she have been screaming that she wanted off the ship NOW (even if it was in the middle of the Tasman). 🙄

 

Then Ms Temple and her mother fell ill. Nothing serious, they thought, just a dry cough and upset stomach. "I wouldn't go to the doctor because they charge like a wounded bull". Hello! You have serious health issues and you don't get checked out by a doctor when you feel ill? She could claim it on her travel insurance or did she cruise without travel insurance? Why weren't these questions asked and addressed in the interview.

 

So did Ms Temple and her mother stay in their cabin once they started to feel ill? I suspect they didn't, and if they didn't they contributed to the spread of the virus on the ship. Again, why wasn't this discussed in the interview?

 

I've very disappointed by the apparent bias of the ABC on this issue, they appear to be following in the footsteps of all the other sensationalist media hacks. I won't be watching the programme because I'll probably get too angry and besides MasterChef is still on then and that's much more fun to watch.

Some very good points, especially the part about whether she and her mother had isolated themselves. Also if they hadn't informed the ship about their symptoms how could the crew be expected to know. I bet I could guess who Ms Temple was in the promo that I saw. I don't think I'll watch it either.

[nnps]

Just started to read the article on the ABC News website. I couldn't finish it was so bad. If the actual 4 Corners report is anything like it it will be very bad.

[OzKiwiJJ]

30 minutes ago, nnps said:

Just started to read the article on the ABC News website. I couldn't finish it was so bad. If the actual 4 Corners report is anything like it it will be very bad.

I agree. It just uses a whole new set of sob stories to say the same old stuff that has been said before ad nauseum. There is no attempt to view the situation from any other perspective.

[MicCanberra]

2 hours ago, mr walker said:

 

At various times over the years I have been involved in discussions about what services are best provided by the government & what are best provided by others. Mostly there is a degree of disagreement.

 

 

Definitely and it is not always a political party division.

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Then Ms Temple and her mother fell ill. Nothing serious, they thought, just a dry cough and upset stomach. "I wouldn't go to the doctor because they charge like a wounded bull". Hello! You have serious health issues and you don't get checked out by a doctor when you feel ill?

 

I'm a bit confused by this statement. Was it not serious or was it serious? I probably would not got to a doctor if I had a bit of a cough or upset stomach unless it was incapacitating. I think most people would just assume it is something they will get over. I doubt many people would conclude that mild symptoms would turn into anything life threatening so I can't help wondering if some notice had been made that there is an infection going round the ship then perhaps people would have been more likely to go to the doctor to report mild symptoms🤔.

[MicCanberra]

It sounds very much like Ms Temple blames everyone else for her woes of her own making.

She has serious medical issues, and she is worried about being safe on the cruise.

So here are my questions.

why is she even cruising?

why when getting sick she doesn't go to the doctor despite the cost?

very selfish.

 

 

[banzaii]

5 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

I think it is important to have a broadcaster not beholdened to commercial interests otherwise you would not get programs like Revelation or the sadly cancelled The Checkout. There are programs or stories that commercial channels would never touch, so how else could we get them told? Sometimes they do things we wish they did not do but no industry will ever get everything right🤗. 

 

The problem is a goverment funded TV station is expected to have opinions and agendas in line with that government.  

 

4 hours ago, The_Big_M said:

Good reasons to have government owned media, for the good of the people.

 

Tell that to the Chinese and North Koreans.  It only works when the Govt allows true independence and zero interferance in media reporting.

[Pushka]

These sob stories are from people who like us, simply went on a fun cruise, some died, others lost their partners, some became seriously unwell, some now with lifelong issues. Anger and blame are completely normal and rational parts of the grief cycle which has only just begun. I think we should listen to their stories and realise that but for the grace of god go I. And hope they heal. These passengers did nothing wrong. 

Edited May 25, 2020 by Pushka

[ilikeanswers]

37 minutes ago, banzaii said:

The problem is a goverment funded TV station is expected to have opinions and agendas in line with that government. 

 

But it is still another point of view otherwise you have TV stations who only follow the corporate agenda who will not touch certain topics because it will not be commercially viable or conflict with corporate interests. Though I don't find the ABC too much towing the government line, I have seen them challenge current politicians and their policies many times and there are plenty of programs that openly critique the government on every channel so I don't think we are in any danger of turning into DPRK or China😋.

[OzKiwiJJ]

1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I'm a bit confused by this statement. Was it not serious or was it serious? I probably would not got to a doctor if I had a bit of a cough or upset stomach unless it was incapacitating. I think most people would just assume it is something they will get over. I doubt many people would conclude that mild symptoms would turn into anything life threatening so I can't help wondering if some notice had been made that there is an infection going round the ship then perhaps people would have been more likely to go to the doctor to report mild symptoms🤔.

Semi-serious. She is blaming the cruise line for endangering her health yet she seemingly just shrugged off an illness. Yes, most people wouldn't bother going to the medical centre with those symptoms but most people haven't had a kidney and pancreas transplant.

[ilikeanswers]

1 minute ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Semi-serious. She is blaming the cruise line for endangering her health yet she seemingly just shrugged off an illness. Yes, most people wouldn't bother going to the medical centre with those symptoms but most people haven't had a kidney and pancreas transplant.

 

I was not aware she was a transplant recipient that changes the narrative completely 😮. She should have been more conscience about her health since she would already have weaker immune system compared to the average traveller.

[OzKiwiJJ]

1 minute ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I was not aware she was a transplant recipient that changes the narrative completely 😮. She should have been more conscience about her health since she would already have weaker immune system compared to the average traveller.

Exactly.

[ilikeanswers]

1 minute ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Exactly.

 

Though I don't know if we should be focusing so much on one passenger🤔. Her circumstances are extraodinary and not representative of the average passenger.

[OzKiwiJJ]

The fact is that neither Princess nor any of the passengers had any inkling that Covid-19 had arrived on the ship.

 

Princess obviously started to have concerns, otherwise they wouldn't have sent some swabs in for testing in Wellington, but influenza was also doing the rounds on the ship. But what could they do without starting a panic?

 

Some passengers obviously got sick, either with the flu or Covid-19, and I'm 100% sure that some of those passengers just carried on mingling with other passengers with no thought of who they infect.

[OzKiwiJJ]

8 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Though I don't know if we should be focusing so much on one passenger🤔. Her circumstances are extraodinary and not representative of the average passenger.

And exactly, except that passenger has made her feelings very clear to the media without appearing to have taken any responsibility herself.

[ilikeanswers]

1 minute ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Some passengers obviously got sick, either with the flu or Covid-19, and I'm 100% sure that some of those passengers just carried on mingling with other passengers with no thought of who they infect.

 

Pre Pandemic our society had not been conditioned to self isolate when sick. People go to work sick without much thought to their co workers. Perhaps it would have been better if the ship had treated it it like a Noro outbreak and given people a good reason to self isolate, rather than keep people in the dark for fear of panic. I read of a ship that after the pandemic was annouced offered passengers free medical check ups, perhaps that was something Ruby should have considered especially if they were noticing a rise in sick passengers🤔.

[ilikeanswers]

13 minutes ago, Pushka said:

These sob stories are from people who like us, simply went on a fun cruise, some died, others lost their partners, some became seriously unwell, some now with lifelong issues. Anger and blame are completely normal and rational parts of the grief cycle which has only just begun. I think we should listen to their stories and realise that but for the grace of god go I. And hope they heal. These passengers did nothing wrong. 

 

I think a lot of times it is forgotten that many cruisers are not experienced travellers. That naivety means that they do not always know what they should or should not do (when I first started travelling I made so many mistakes😆). Most often they pick cruising because they think it is a way of travelling where someone will basically hold your hand, it is part of the appeal. So when something goes wrong it is easy to blame the cruise line because in the passengers minds they are responsible for everything. Cruise lines have been quite happy to play along with this hand holding mindset and target the inexperienced traveller so they shouldn't be particualrly surprised when it backfires when things go wrong.

[OzKiwiJJ]

36 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Pre Pandemic our society had not been conditioned to self isolate when sick. People go to work sick without much thought to their co workers. 

Part of that is the pressure put on them by the companies they work for to work through whatever illness they have. Many people are afraid to take sick leave in case it puts their job in jeopardy.

 

But too many passengers completely ignore the safety briefings which clearly tell people to cover their mouths when they cough or sneeze, into their arm/shoulder or a tissue, not into their hands. Yet you see them all around the ship coughing all over other people when they are sitting centimetres away, or coughing into both hands  then touching table and chairs etc. Fact - I saw both of these examples on a cruise we did last year.

 

Hopefully people will have learnt some hygiene etiquette from this pandemic. Hopefully employers will send staff home of they turn up at work sick, Hopefully cruise line staff will be encouraged to dob in passengers they see coughing and sneezing in public - a quiet word to someone and a security or medical person pulls the passenger aside for a chat about hygiene perhaps.

[OzKiwiJJ]

32 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I think a lot of times it is forgotten that many cruisers are not experienced travellers. That naivety means that they do not always know what they should or should not do (when I first started travelling I made so many mistakes😆). Most often they pick cruising because they think it is a way of travelling where someone will basically hold your hand, it is part of the appeal. So when something goes wrong it is easy to blame the cruise line because in the passengers minds they are responsible for everything. Cruise lines have been quite happy to play along with this hand holding mindset and target the inexperienced traveller so they shouldn't be particualrly surprised when it backfires when things go wrong.

Safety briefings.

Messages in daily newssheets.

Crew members doling out hand sanitiser or directing people to wash stations.

What more can they do?

 

The cruise lines tread a fine line between letting people have their fun and keeping a healthy ship. Unfortunately some people shouldn't be allowed out in public, they are just totally self-centred.

 

[ilikeanswers]

17 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Safety briefings.

 

I don't think I have ever had a safety briefing, unless you consider a muster drill a safety briefing? But my point was more about the preception of safety rather than what they do on the ship itself. I know as an independant traveller it is emphasised how dangerous it is to travel by yourself. That message is always in your face even if in many cases it does not reflect the reality but it does effect the behaviour of travellers as a result. Cruise ships do the exact opposite and present themselves as the ultimate in safe haven. Presenting themsleves as a high standard of safety means they have further to fall in the mindset of passengers when things go wrong especially those who are less familiar with reality and therefore risks of traveling

[ilikeanswers]

Saw the 4 corners report, it was not that sensationalised, there was two people with strong opinions but over all it just presented the timeline of events as they happened. Good for getting the overall picture of the case.

[pully8]

Half watched it. Seemed to have a lot of cut/paste from other accounts previously in the media? Felt very sorry for the lady from Tasmania who spoke of her experience and the death of her partner.

We still wish to cruise albeit we have never been on a ship with more than about 2000 people. We especially like European river cruising and have done lots of those, also Oceania, Azamara and Cunard.

Who knows what ships will be available next.

Reality is people do die and get sick on cruises and well anywhere.

Some people are very impaired but enjoy cruising. Arguable if they should but that's another story. 

On our last Cunard around Christmas time we wondered if some would make it alive after the 2 week trip given their health status, frailty not age related.

For many it was a treat to leave the cold weather and enjoy Christmas on board with their family. Shame if this is denied people.  

 

[The_Big_M]

6 hours ago, banzaii said:

 

Tell that to the Chinese and North Koreans.  It only works when the Govt allows true independence and zero interferance in media reporting.

 

Which is a different issue. It doesn't mean that commercial media (as such as it would be) would be a better proposition there.

[mobiandy]

There is a silver lining to every dark cloud. Ms Temple said she won't be cruising again.

[Aus Traveller]

11 hours ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

The fact is that neither Princess nor any of the passengers had any inkling that Covid-19 had arrived on the ship.

 

Princess obviously started to have concerns, otherwise they wouldn't have sent some swabs in for testing in Wellington, but influenza was also doing the rounds on the ship. But what could they do without starting a panic?

 

Some passengers obviously got sick, either with the flu or Covid-19, and I'm 100% sure that some of those passengers just carried on mingling with other passengers with no thought of who they infect.

I have quoted only one of your posts, but you make good points in other posts as well. 🙂

 

The transplant-patient passenger who was interviewed on 4 Corners last night, kept complaining that "they" didn't tell the passengers that there was illness on board, but she didn't report her illness to the medical centre, even though passengers were asked on several occasions to go to Medical if they had various symptoms. Although she didn't know it, she did have the virus and probably infected other people.