Refund denied?

[flossie009]

2 hours ago, Travelcat2 said:

flossie - I commented about. your post that said  "Unfortunately, Regent(UK) are ignoring their own Booking Conditions and are toeing the party line from  NCLH that refunds will be delayed up to 90 days."

A factual statement.

I could have gone further to say that Regent's present refund policy (90 days) is breaking UK Consumer Law, but that would have been unnecessarily inflammatory, albeit correct.

 

I reiterate my previous statement: 

We all agree that these are difficult times for all the cruise lines and I am perfectly happy to cut them some slack ................ However, denying a refund, as reported above, or extending the refund period to 3 months is going too far, IMO.

 

[Travelcat2]

40 minutes ago, flossie009 said:

A factual statement.

I could have gone further to say that Regent's present refund policy (90 days) is breaking UK Consumer Law, but that would have been unnecessarily inflammatory, albeit correct.

 

I reiterate my previous statement: 

We all agree that these are difficult times for all the cruise lines and I am perfectly happy to cut them some slack ................ However, denying a refund, as reported above, or extending the refund period to 3 months is going too far, IMO.

 

 

We agree that these are difficult times.  The area where we disagree is that extending the refund to 3 months is going too far.

 

This morning I read on my TA's website that all three brands are processing claims together - I believe that this is different than how it was handled previously. Perhaps they feel that it will go faster this way.  I wonder since the three brands are so different in terms of what is being refunded (for instance NCL does not include air - an item that Regent has to take into consideration).

 

 I also learned that our TA has 500 bookings to process.  While they have a staff, this is an enormous number of bookings.  I cannot imagine how many thousands of refunds or FCC's that Regent, Oceania and NCL are dealing with (from their homes).  Just one NCL ship can hold 4,000 passengers.  Since they are being dealt with by hand, if the person reviewing and calculating the refunds/FCC's has a question, there is a further delay.  Then they need to be double checked,  '

 

These refunds are not simple.  It would be great if they looked at the total cost of the canceled cruise and refunded that amount. They need to break out taxes, port fees, airfare, booked Regent Choice Excursions and Culinary Classes that have been paid for (some by credit card - others using OBC's).  

 

I do wonder if, in the future, Regent and other luxury cruise lines will get the process up on their computers.  While doing them by hand in the past was not a big deal, they did not plan for the pandemic (nor did anyone else). 

[katykrol]

6 hours ago, orvil said:

katykrol,

 

Here is a link to an article about a cruise reservation cancellation issue that you might find illuminating.

 

https://www.elliott.org/cruises/coronavirus-cruise-cancellation-too-soon/

 

While it doesn't directly address your particular situation, it does advise that all contact with NCLH and RSSC be done in writing in the future.  You need a paper trail.  It will protect you in case you decide to go to the next step.

 

If you do have a telephone conversation with any company representative at any level, insist on a contact email address.  Upon conclusion of the telephone conversation, write a quick email confirming the conversation, highlight the points of conversation covered.

 

The Elliot Advocacy group emphasizes that the bottom line, it's you against a huge corporate behemoth. 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for that information. I do have the letter that was placed in my stateroom telling us our options when our cruise was cancelled. No form was mentioned. I do have the one communication I received from Jason montague, no form mentioned. I do have an email from a really nice rep at rssc confirming our conversation and acknowledging the mix up. Sadly, last week, both the rude rep and the supervisor told me that it didn’t matter that I had that email. My refund could still be denied. I printed all the emails between myself and my ta because they discuss the phone calls she made.

 

I have all the “proof” I need and mentioned to the supervisor but he said too bad. I think I will send that email and bullet point the facts. Can’t hurt 

 

thanks to all who have supported me. Life shouldn’t be this hard. 

[SusieQft]

1 hour ago, Travelcat2 said:

These refunds are not simple.  It would be great if they looked at the total cost of the canceled cruise and refunded that amount. They need to break out taxes, port fees, airfare, booked Regent Choice Excursions and Culinary Classes that have been paid for (some by credit card - others using OBC's).  

 

I do wonder if, in the future, Regent and other luxury cruise lines will get the process up on their computers.  While doing them by hand in the past was not a big deal, they did not plan for the pandemic (nor did anyone else). 

 

I'm sure that Regent and all the other cruise lines are looking at this as a temporary situation.  Otherwise, they might as well just close up right now.  It sounds like upgrading and computerizing the refund process would take a considerable investment of time and money.  So I would not expect that to happen.  In addition, if they make the refund process more efficient, the money would pour out the door even faster.

[forgap]

2 hours ago, Travelcat2 said:

They need to break out taxes, port fees, airfare, booked Regent Choice Excursions and Culinary Classes that have been paid for (some by credit card - others using OBC's)

Curious....my Regent invoice has every credit card charge listed.  How is this rocket science?  if they cancel the cruise, I get the bottom line refunded!  Port fees,taxes, excursions, etc........this is not difficult!  
 

[Travelcat2]

56 minutes ago, forgap said:

Curious....my Regent invoice has every credit card charge listed.  How is this rocket science?  if they cancel the cruise, I get the bottom line refunded!  Port fees,taxes, excursions, etc........this is not difficult!  
 

 

After reading your post, I went into my cruise file to inspect my invoices.  The invoice from Regent states the dates that we paid by credit card.  It does not indicate what type of credit card of part of the number.  There is nothing regarding port fees, taxes or excursion costs. We do have a separate document with our flights (no monetary information on those documents - we do not ever see what our flights are costing Regent).The information that I have is for our November cruise that still has a small balance to pay on it.  

 

 I am wondering if you are looking at the Final Booking document that we receive from Regent about a month prior to the cruise?  If so, I do not have a copy of that with me but it does make me wonder what document the processing employees are looking at.

 

It is not rocket science but is detailed.  As you know, there are different rules depending upon when you cancel your cruise.  There are some people that have cancelled cruises for next year.  I assume they come under the old rules (either getting a refund of what has been paid so far with a $200 administrative fee applicable to a future cruise or a penalty fee for late cancelation).  Some passengers cancelled their cruises under the "36 hour" rule.  A handful of people cancelled our March cruise less than a week before Regent canceled it.  Then there are the Regent canceled cruise - the ones that are new to Regent.  Within that group, there are refunds or FCC's.  Supposedly, taxes and fees are refunded even if you select to have FCC's.  

 

I'm not sure if airfare is refunded for all Regent cancelations or not.  Perhaps you or someone else knows.  On some Regent cancelations, people booked their own air and in some circumstances they receive a refund for that (as well as some other expenses).  I also do not know if you receive a credit for the hotel that you are not using (in the case of the March cruise, the majority of passengers learned of the cancelation when they were checking into the hotel).

 

Lest I forget people that booked from other countries....... only affected cruisers might know if they are calculated differently than in the U.S. and Canada.

 

Add to this that the same people that are working on Regent Refunds and FCC's are also working on NCL's and Oceania's.  As Pcardad noted, once the paperwork is processed, it needs to be checked by a second person.  I also assume that questionable or unclear paperwork needs to be sent (via email?) to a supervisor.

 

Again, not difficult but time consuming.  If I were processing paperwork from three cruise lines, I would have a detailed checklist (paper) for each cruise line and would initial every step when it was done (this is helpful when you are interrupted and return to processing).  This is something that I did for my employees when they were processing in new hires- lots of steps but easy to follow.  One would think that this system would not be necessary in 2020 but, if they are processing by hand, it comes in handy.

 

 

[forgap]

Let us not muddy the waters.....regent canceled our cruise.....all charges were on our card on record with regent that we still have.  We did our own air.  Charges are for deposit, final payment and excursions.  Again, this is not rocket science!

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2020 by forgap

[SusieQft]

I can't speak for Regent, other than that my booking confirmation also does not show the credit card number.  I have yet to cancel a Regent booking, though, so it may only show up after you cancel. 

 

On Crystal, I have  two different kinds of confirmation documents.  The "booking confirmations" do not show credit card numbers.  But they also have "payment confirmations" that DO show the (partial) credit card numbers.  After I cancel a booking, the final payment confirmation document lists each payment and what happened to it (pending refund or transferred to another booking), along with the partial credit card numbers.

 

forgap -- Many people do make payments on more than one card, which would make it more complicated than your situation.  I consider this a lesson to file away for future reference.  I may still do it occasionally, but only for a very good reason.  My upcoming Regent booking is on 2 cards because I made the initial deposit on Visa and then American Express (and/or Regent?) offered a $300 rebate if I spent $1000 on a Regent cruise.  I thought that was a no-brainer.  Now if I cancel I will only get $700 back (someday) of that payment, actually only $693 since there was 1% cash back on the rest.  Which of course, is what it cost me in the first place!

[Travelcat2]

33 minutes ago, forgap said:

Let us not muddy the waters.....regent canceled our cruise.....all charges were on our card on record with regent that we still have.  We did our own air.  Charges are for deposit, final payment and excursions.  Again, this is not rocket science!

 

 

 

 

How is my explanation muddying the waters?  It seems easier to bash the hard working people that are processing our refunds and FCC's than to admit that they have a daunting task?  

[forgap]

How am I bashing?  I explained that our refund is straight  forward with no complicated math.  This transaction could never take 90 days to calculate.  Your response (in 7 paragraphs) brought in other issues that are not ours.  I think you need to give your endless apologies a rest.  
 

For the record, I’m not mad....I will sail regent again when it is safe.  I just find your explanations  infuriating as you are not the spokesperson for regent!  

[Travelcat2]

4 minutes ago, forgap said:

How am I bashing?  I explained that our refund is straight  forward with no complicated math.  This transaction could never take 90 days to calculate.  Your response (in 7 paragraphs) brought in other issues that are not ours.  I think you need to give your endless apologies a rest.  
 

For the record, I’m not mad....I will sail regent again when it is safe.  I just find your explanations  infuriating as you are not the spokesperson for regent!  

 

I am not apologizing for what I post - I apologized for my inability to do multiiple quotes.

 

While I am not the spokesperson for Regent, I do understand what Regent is going through.  While "your" refund is straight forward, this is not there case with other people.  Would it be fair to ignore refund requests that were canceled earlier than your cruise and process them only after all refunds "with no complicated math" are processed?

[fizzy]

10 hours ago, Travelcat2 said:

 

I am not apologizing for what I post - I apologized for my inability to do multiiple quotes.

 

While I am not the spokesperson for Regent, I do understand what Regent is going through.  While "your" refund is straight forward, this is not there case with other people.  Would it be fair to ignore refund requests that were canceled earlier than your cruise and process them only after all refunds "with no complicated math" are processed?

How easy and KIND it would be, at this point, for someone from Regent to come on this board and clarify the process of refunds. The OP has a very specific issue that is exacerbated by very special circumstances and came to CC for advice.  Why can't you ignore this thread rather than turning it into a rah rah crusade for Regent? If you are their spokeswoman, you are not doing them any favors and they might want to clarify that also. There seem to be a lot of customers who are pretty POd at this point and how lucky for you that you are not one of them. It's very clear to me that Regent and their lawyers do not monitor this board as you always say and it is just a myth...........the bash word is getting annoying.

[pappy1022]

Fizzy & Forgap, I agree with you 100%. The calculations are easy and a computer program could come up with the correct amount to credit the customer in less than 1 second for every scenario. This illustrates the lack of technology that Regent has in place and that is just totally unacceptable in 2020. I and others have noted other website anomalies, such as previous cruises disappearing from our records and FCC's showing up as shipboard credits. I and many others have also had terrible experiences in trying to book excursions online. Add these ongoing issues with customer communications and refunds and one wonders how they can compete. Maybe TC is right, Regent is no worse then all other luxury cruise lines. Does that make it OK? I can understand why Regent wants to delay refunds and space them out for cash flow reasons. I don't understand why they make it so complicated to calculate the refund and then have a second person do the same thing. Talk about a cost reduction opportunity! In my case it was a simple refund of a down payment, minus the $200 for the cancellation fee. Why did that take almost 50 days to process? My 10 year old grandson could write a computer program to do that calculation.

[Travelcat2]

pappy - one would think that if a program could be put together as easily as some believe, why haven't any of the luxury cruise lines done it?  The fact that Regent is no better than other luxury cruise lines does not make it right but since the issues are the same (or similar) on these lines, one luxury cruise line doesn't really stand out above another in terms of technology.  There is one luxury cruise line whose "upgraded" website was so confusing that it was nearly impossible to maneuver.  Of course this is frustrating - it is to all of us.  The fact that Regent has/had(?) three people processing refunds (presumably not by hand) and were able to process the refunds in a timely manner for years could speak to the issue of not being prepared for for a pandemic that would cause Regent to cancel cruises for months on end.  I wonder how many of us were truly prepared for the pandemic (but that is a discussion for a different thread).

 

Pcardad pretty much answered the question as to why a second person needs to double check each claim (people were making errors so it was necessary to have two sets of eyes on each claim).   In terms of your (and Forgap's) claim being simple.  I get it but refunds are not being made on the basis of how straightforward they are.  It sounds (from what Pcardad posted) that they are going in order of the cruise date.  I cannot imagine what CC'ers would be saying if someone received their simple refund for a cruise that was cancelled in May before others received their refunds for cruises canceled in March.  

 

fizzy - I post what I believe in.  When I feel Regent is wrong, I have no problem saying so.  In terms of your reference to a factual comment that I made years ago, it may be time to let it go.  It has nothing to do with anything.  That was two owners ago and, again, what I posted was factual.  

 

If posters would stop bashing Regent and other posters, the word would be used less.  OTOH, we can always say "attacking" or "assaulting" Regent.  

[pappy1022]

Regent has earned their criticisms. It is simple to program a refund policy. There are many other companies that have more complex problems that have been solved with computer programs.They have to have the will to do it and I guarantee that they could make things more efficient and a better customer experience. There are always exceptions but the exceptions shouldn't be the norm. Now that NCLH got all this additional funding, why can't they churn these refunds around faster? It is about the will to want to.  

[RachelG]

Let’s face it.  The reason they are processing refunds so slowly is that they are wanting to hang onto the cash as long as possible, plain and simple.  I suspect they have laid off a bunch of staff as well, which makes things go even more slowly.  They have no incentive to work faster.  And yes, I am still waiting for my refund for my paid extra shore excursions, one which was quite expensive as it involved overnight in Jerusalem.  We got the future cruise credit almost immediately.  It is the cash they are dragging their feet about.

[SusieQft]

8 minutes ago, RachelG said:

 Let’s face it.  The reason they are processing refunds so slowly is that they are wanting to hang onto the cash as long as possible, plain and simple.  I suspect they have laid off a bunch of staff as well, which makes things go even more slowly.  They have no incentive to work faster.

Absolutely!  And therefore they also have no incentive to improve their computer system for refund processing.  However, I would point out that Regent is now doing a much better job processing refunds than Crystal is.  I suspect that their cash infusion has something to do with that.

[Travelcat2]

They now do have an incentive to fix the processing of refunds but did not have an incentive before as there was no issue with how they were being processed.  There will be many lessons learned from this pandemic.

[CruisetheCs]

I don't see how anyone can persistently defend the operations of Regent, e.g., the refund process, if that individual does not have direct inside knowledge or observation of the day to day operations over a period of time.  It just becomes a guessing game that this or that is probably what is going on, over and over.  Regent has the inside knowledge of daily work loads, staffing and other workplace flow, problems and changes. Regent could explain what is actually happening if Regent chose to.

 

If Regent chooses not to clarify the day to day operations or the obstacles to a timely refund, then I don't understand the investment of energy into the defensive guessing game, over and over on a daily if not hourly basis.

 

Reading the defenses of Regent on this board sometimes simply conjures up the image of a Washington DC press conference holding forth on the many evils of the opposition party. My criticism is okay, your criticism is "bashing."  Great rhetoric though it has little to do with the reality of the definition of bashing.  Another post complains about posters bashing hardworking people trying to process refunds.  I'm beginning to wonder if there is a secret underground movement on these boards that is trying to overthrow Regent.

 

The repetition at great length in post after post of all the presumed reasons that Regent can't do something may well be counterproductive for Regent's image.  Questionable defensive arguments keep the issue of refund problems alive and remind viewers of the problem with every new post. Sometimes less is more and Regent might be better defended by fewer posts and fewer words. And speaking of less is more (in this long post ) there is post #39 that was responding to something I wrote that is so confusing and repetitive that I just gave up reading it.  

 

This thread started with the description of a messed up refund.  I would hope that the TS might go to an advocate from the NYT or Washington Post if Regent fails to come through.  

 

 

[Travelcat2]

Everyone that continues posting is keeping the subject going.  You are attacking the poster rather than the topic and are putting in the same energy as everyone else.  

 

You want fewer words - here it is:

 

Very few people/companies in the world knew the pandemic was coming.

Big companies are going bankrupt over this and millions of people lost their jobs (and thousands have lost their lives)

Regent had to cut staff, lessen hours and lower salaries (all temporary moves)

Your 3rd paragraph seems to be out in left field somewhere so I will not respond.

Regent is processing refunds - people are receiving refunds.

Perhaps I am being repetitive because posters are being repetitive.

 

P.S.  One more ...... people that are not affected by canceled cruises and/or refunds (and some that have not cruised on Regent) are in here with negative comments.  I neither bash Regent nor bash posters - I disagree with points of view and give reasons why.   

 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Travelcat2

[SusieQft]

TC, whether or not you intend it, your indirect attacks often seem to be directed at me.  I am sorry to make this post, but sometimes my tolerance is maxed out and some built-up resentment comes out all at once.   I don't want to repeat the mistake I made one time of trying to address this issue of indirect attacks indirectly.  And I apologize in advance to all that this post is off topic.

 

You don't have to cruise on Regent to experience their pre-cruise experience.  My first Regent cruise for this October has been booked for over 8 months now, and over 5 months ago I even made a second Regent booking for next May.  These were both to be trial runs because what I really want is to do is one of Regent's Grand Voyages, hopefully followed by many other Regent cruises.  Now I am in the unfortunate position of having to decide in less than 2 weeks whether or not to make final payment on the October booking.  I feel that gives me plenty of "Regent cred" to post about their booking and refund process.  I do not recall posting anything about the Regent onboard experience except for questions.

 

As for your other often repeated indirect attack on me, when I started the Regent Refund Roll Call thread, I was using the example of UUNetBill's "SuiteGuru" thread and trying to give Portolan's thread a do-over by asking that posts be limited to the collection of data.  I was just trying to be helpful, but I guess no good deed goes unpunished.  I had no idea that such threads would cause so much ongoing resentment.  I can assure you that I have no intention of doing it that way again, and if I had it to do over I would not have put that restriction on the new thread.  And unless things really get out of hand in a negative way, I won't be making any more posts trying to enforce it, which I only did once, anyway.  Does that make you happier?  I would be very grateful if you would stop making remarks about that issue.

[bissel]

SusieQ, I fully support you and your common sense effort to keep the spreadsheet thread on refunds clean and clear. It’s impossible for me to see why that is unacceptable. Well, just to one person anyway. Nobody else.

I appreciate  your contributions to all the topics on the threads.

[forgap]

2 hours ago, Travelcat2 said:

I neither bash Regent nor bash posters

Ugh...didn’t you accuse me of bashing regent, which, since I posted, is bashing me? 

[pappy1022]

1 hour ago, SusieQft said:

TC, whether or not you intend it, your indirect attacks often seem to be directed at me.  I am sorry to make this post, but sometimes my tolerance is maxed out and some built-up resentment comes out all at once.   I don't want to repeat the mistake I made one time of trying to address this issue of indirect attacks indirectly.  And I apologize in advance to all that this post is off topic.

 

 

Susie, you have another person in me that supports your position and appreciates you as a contributor on this discussion board. Even if you haven't actually cruised with Regent, you and others are experiencing part of Regent's eco system, their customer service team and during these unusual times, they are not performing well IMHO. I think that people and companies show their true character when under stressful situations. If you ever finally get on a Regent cruise that sails, I think you will love the product, unless of course the COVID-19 precautions take too much away from the norm. Keep posting, you are a voice of reason.

[Travelcat2]

1 hour ago, SusieQft said:

TC, whether or not you intend it, your indirect attacks often seem to be directed at me.  I am sorry to make this post, but sometimes my tolerance is maxed out and some built-up resentment comes out all at once.

 

As for your other often repeated indirect attack on me, when I started the Regent Refund Roll Call thread, I was using the example of UUNetBill's "SuiteGuru" thread and trying to give Portolan's thread a do-over by asking that posts be limited to the collection of data.  I was just trying to be helpful, but I guess no good deed goes unpunished. 

 

Wow - of all posters, you should know better.  You and I have been in email communication where I have tried to help you.  If I had something to say to you, I would do it directly — not indirectly.

 

You did not start the restricted thread which I have referred to.  Someone else did and yes, I am not in favor of restricted threads.  We have monitors to insure that threads stay on topic.  Again, that thread subject had nothing to do with you.  I did think to myself (but did not post) that you could not turn a restricted thread into a general thread without changing the subject of the thread (this was after a comment that you made).  Again, I did not respond to it and if I had, I would have quoted your post.

 

You are also not the only person that has not sailed or Regent that is on this board at the moment.  The comment about that topic was general and certainly not aimed at you.  At least you are trying to assist in keeping track of refunds which is a positive thing on your part (and I have said so - both on this board and through email.

 

forgap - I have no idea how my asking people to try to understand Regent’s point of view is bashing you.  I have asked why some posters (including you) are blaming Regent for everything but that is not a personal attack.  It is a question that I truly want to know from posters.  If you ask me why I defend Regent, it is not bashing me - it is a question - one that I have answered several times.

 

When I strongly disagree with a poster point of view,  it is about that point of view - not about a person’s character or honesty.  Hopefully this will be understood going forward.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Travelcat2