CDC requested to reinstate NSO

[chengkp75]

20 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

And again I think you need to take the vaccines coming into consideration.

 

News out this morning of modera at almost 95% effectiveness. News due out about the other one sometime after dec 1st, results with the 2nd, booster shot. So far the 90% is after just the first shot.

 

By the time cruiselines can jump thru all those hoops, many will be vaccinated. Cruises will be changed forever, and hopefully safer, but I expect many changes to stay in place after this, even when its safer. But I think the coming vaccines will somewhat change what's safe too.

 

The no sail order should not be extended. Which is what this thread is about. 

 

 

I don't think the NSO will be extended.  The CSO has all the requirements of the NSO anyway, along with the option to make them permanent.

 

I don't see the vaccine being available being the panacea that others feel it will be.  We had an effective vaccine against smallpox, and it took decades to eradicate that, and polio still has not been eradicated.  Measles outbreaks in the US shows that "herd immunity" does not provide complete protection.  And, what the CDC has required for covid, will work just as well for any other airborne virus, or even a different strain of covid (as has already been identified), that may come along in the future.  I guess since the VSP has eliminated botulism and e.coli from cruise ships, that those protections are now "going too far"?

[firefly333]

1 hour ago, Ourusualbeach said:

The CDC has left the order open so that it can be changed, both for better or worse. 

Yes, it's open, but to me they wanted to extend it thru march 1 and the White House stopped them, so they added a lot of 28 days this, 60 days that, to get around being stopped. End result the same.

 

Cruising most likely they cant get thru the hoops until the same date they wanted. 

 

Hopefully the cruiselines are making progress. I dont see ships moving or much sign of resuming. Just words same as before.

[chengkp75]

4 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Hopefully the cruiselines are making progress. I dont see ships moving or much sign of resuming. Just words same as before.

And who is that on, the cruise lines or the CDC?  I have to say that I've seen precious little leadership from the cruise line executives.

[firefly333]

2 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And who is that on, the cruise lines or the CDC?  I have to say that I've seen precious little leadership from the cruise line executives.

We agree. 

[suzyluvs2cruise]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

I don't think the NSO will be extended.  The CSO has all the requirements of the NSO anyway, along with the option to make them permanent.

 

I don't see the vaccine being available being the panacea that others feel it will be.  We had an effective vaccine against smallpox, and it took decades to eradicate that, and polio still has not been eradicated.  Measles outbreaks in the US shows that "herd immunity" does not provide complete protection.  And, what the CDC has required for covid, will work just as well for any other airborne virus, or even a different strain of covid (as has already been identified), that may come along in the future.  I guess since the VSP has eliminated botulism and e.coli from cruise ships, that those protections are now "going too far"?

 

I agree.....so many are acting like the vaccine is a magic pill and once it's out and people are vaccinated everything will be fine. It's definitely a step in the right direction though. 

[Ourusualbeach]

10 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Yes, it's open, but to me they wanted to extend it thru march 1 and the White House stopped them, so they added a lot of 28 days this, 60 days that, to get around being stopped. End result the same.

 

Cruising most likely they cant get thru the hoops until the same date they wanted. 

 

Hopefully the cruiselines are making progress. I dont see ships moving or much sign of resuming. Just words same as before.

It's not the same as before.  Before there was no way to resume cruising and the cruise lines had no ideas on what they would need to do to resume cruising.  There was no way the CDC would just suddenly say "have at it boys" and leave it to each cruise line to determine how to proceed.  Now the cruise lines have the guidance they need to resume sailing safely.

[Ourusualbeach]

14 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Hopefully the cruiselines are making progress. I dont see ships moving or much sign of resuming. Just words same as before.

You have no idea nor do any of us what is going on behind the scenes.  Why anyone would expect to see massive ship movement just a few weeks after the new order is beyond me.  No one has said this would be quick and in fact the cruise line execs have stated that it will be slow and not until at least January.  

[Ourusualbeach]

3 minutes ago, suzyluvs2cruise said:

It's definitely a step in the right direction though. 

Exactly...a step not a sudden reversal.

[firefly333]

17 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

You have no idea nor do any of us what is going on behind the scenes.  Why anyone would expect to see massive ship movement just a few weeks after the new order is beyond me.  No one has said this would be quick and in fact the cruise line execs have stated that it will be slow and not until at least January.  

I think we would see some signs or hear of filings. You could be right and setting up all those ship inspections will be kept secret, but seems like there are always leaks.

 

... I'd be amazed if it's by January.. in fact I'm starting to worry about april. I'm pretty sure we can cross off January and February. .. march iffy at best. Yes, it takes time. That's my point. Cruiselines need to get busy. ..and yes I'm now starting to worry if they can comply by april. Faucci says we can be mostly done with covid by april ... but can cruiselines be ready? I see posters saying no.

 

Like if they had started labs onboard, some crewmembers would be saying. Make the other changes required. Do the 28 day filing to re enter USA waters to get inspected. ... no I dont expect it immediately. I would like to hear something from the cruiselines.

 

I've read the order and it's going to take months imo to comply. March iffy to me, april maybe iffy now too. The months march on.

Edited November 16, 2020 by firefly333

[chengkp75]

17 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

It's not the same as before.  Before there was no way to resume cruising and the cruise lines had no ideas on what they would need to do to resume cruising.

I'm sorry, but the cruise lines had the exact same knowledge of what they would need to do to resume cruising in April, as they do now.  The requirements for the CSO are almost verbatim from the NSO amendment issued in April.  The cruise lines moved forward with just enough to get their plans approved for "green status" to allow crew repatriation, and then it stopped cold.  No studies were made as to the effects on local health care if the ship disembarked a large number of cases, no agreements were reached with cities or hospitals to take cases from ships, and no contracts were let to obtain medical facilities or quarantine facilities to "minimize the impact on the federal, state, and local health care system".

[Biker19]

21 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

You could be right and setting up all those ship inspections will be kept secret, but seems like there are always leaks.

 

The CDC site will likely have a running tally just as they did under NSO. 

[Biker19]

18 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

  The cruise lines moved forward with just enough to get their plans approved for "green status" to allow crew repatriation, and then it stopped cold. 

Why would they go any further when no passanger traffic would be allowed under NSO?

[mworkman]

16 hours ago, zalusky said:

 

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/is-it-a-crime-to-intentionally-get-someone-sick.html

It states Could be charged, if that were the case, Cuomo would be placed in prison for sending 6,300 COVID-19 patients to nursing homes.  We know how that's played out so far.

Edited November 16, 2020 by mworkman

[firefly333]

26 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I'm sorry, but the cruise lines had the exact same knowledge of what they would need to do to resume cruising in April, as they do now.  The requirements for the CSO are almost verbatim from the NSO amendment issued in April.  The cruise lines moved forward with just enough to get their plans approved for "green status" to allow crew repatriation, and then it stopped cold

And as you have said carnival has known about the requirements from the dumping lawsuit what since 7 years, now push has come to shove with the miami judges orders. I think rcl has more chance of restarting faster than carnival who has to get every ship inspected now from the dumping order.

 

...as you have pointed out they knew a long time ago and still haven't gotten these inspections ready.. so add extra time on for carnival. Imo rcl can restart faster for this reason.

 

We can revisit this conversation in a month and see if anything moving. If not I wouldnt be booking for april either. 

[zalusky]

29 minutes ago, mworkman said:

It states Could be charged, if that were the case, Cuomo would be placed in prison for sending 6,300 COVID-19 patients to nursing homes.  We know how that's played out so far.

 

I see you went to the school of whataboutism!

[mworkman]

6 minutes ago, zalusky said:

 

I see you went to the school of whataboutism!

NO...I just don't by your BS!

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 hour ago, firefly333 said:

Yes, it's open, but to me they wanted to extend it thru march 1 and the White House stopped them, so they added a lot of 28 days this, 60 days that, to get around being stopped. End result the same.

 

Cruising most likely they cant get thru the hoops until the same date they wanted. 

 

Hopefully the cruiselines are making progress. I dont see ships moving or much sign of resuming. Just words same as before.

What hoops?  The CDC is concerned about the spread of COVID19 once they disembark. The CDC has stated what they wanted from the cruise lines and the best I can tell, they continue to ignore. It seems to me, the cruise lines are only concerned with how to limit onboard but really no plan if an outbreak occurs, what they do then. The CDC is protecting us on land. 
 

M8

[zalusky]

17 minutes ago, mworkman said:

NO...I just don't by your BS!

 

Although you had to was say you disagree but when you introduce the the Cuomo bit that is called whataboutism plain and simple.  It's a distraction from an early point of the infection.  We learn things and improve our judgement processing along the way.  It ruins your position.  The article is not my BS as I did not write it.  I am simply passing on information.

[mworkman]

Just now, zalusky said:

 

Although you had to was say you disagree but when you introduce the the Cuomo bit that is called whataboutism plain and simple.  It's a distraction from an early point of the infection.  We learn things and improve our judgement processing along the way.  It ruins your position.  The article is not my BS as I did not write it.  I am simply passing on information.

Ya right..just passing off information.  My position isn't ruined...it just doesn't fit your narrative and you don't like it!

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Biker19 said:

Why would they go any further when no passanger traffic would be allowed under NSO?

There is nothing to say that if they had progressed sufficiently to meet all the requirements of "pratique", that they would not have been allowed to restart.  The NSO stated that all of the requirements would need to be met to obtain pratique, so without meeting them, no cruise line would be able to start, whether the CDC lifted the NSO and replaced it with a CSO months ago.  The cruise lines should have been smart enough to see that these requirements weren't going to go away, certainly not anytime soon, and actually worked to meet them, instead of wishful thinking the pandemic would go away and with it the requirements.

[yogimax]

21 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

 instead of wishful thinking the pandemic would go away and with it the requirements.

Sounds familiar.

[zalusky]

1 hour ago, mworkman said:

Ya right..just passing off information.  My position isn't ruined...it just doesn't fit your narrative and you don't like it!

I don't give a rip about you!  You are the one at risk if you follow foolish behavior.  Frankly I kind of hope you do!