Holland America Line to start moving six ships for resumption of cruising in the U.S.A.

[kazu]

34 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

Princess just canceled all cruises through March 31st.

And all cruises over 7 days until Nov. 1st, 2021 

[Hlitner]

21 minutes ago, kazu said:

And all cruises over 7 days until Nov. 1st, 2021 

Not quite.  They stopped all cruises over 7 days in and out of the USA.  That would not impact their European cruise season next summer, assuming that Europe reopens to cruise ships.

 

Hank

[Hlitner]

Just now, Hlitner said:

Not quite.  They stopped all cruises over 7 days in and out of the USA.  That would not impact their European cruise season next summer, assuming that Europe reopens to cruise ships. I assume that CCL has made a decision to reduce costs by putting all the Princess ships into cold lay up.  That 7 day (and less) cruise market really favors the Carnival, RCI, and MSC brands which I assume will try to work with the CDC Guidelines.   

 

Hank

 

[kazu]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

Not quite.  They stopped all cruises over 7 days in and out of the USA.  That would not impact their European cruise season next summer, assuming that Europe reopens to cruise ships.

 

Hank

 

Yes, I omitted the U.S.  apologies and thanks for the correction.

[VMax1700]

Wonder why Nieuw Statendam and Westerdam are 'moving to US waters for eventual resumption of cruising' when their initial cruises will be based in Europe?  Would it not make more sense for them to prepare for resumption in a European/UK port?

[Hlitner]

59 minutes ago, VMax1700 said:

Wonder why Nieuw Statendam and Westerdam are 'moving to US waters for eventual resumption of cruising' when their initial cruises will be based in Europe?  Would it not make more sense for them to prepare for resumption in a European/UK port?

Based on HAL's new announcement (all cruises are cancelled through March 31) it would seem that HAL's President was not aware of their own policy :).  I suspect there will now be no movement of any HAL vessel to US Waters until March.  As to Europe, nobody has a clue to what will be the policy in Europe when it comes to future cruises.  We do know that Asia is out of the question for any cruise through at least the Spring of 2021.  Whether Europe will reopen ports for the Spring/Summer 2021 season is a huge question mark. If we assume that vaccines will become widely available by the 2nd quarter of 2021 I would guess that cruise industry will push the reopening of cruising with the proviso that all onboard must have proof of a COVID vaccination or positive COVID antibody test.

 

Hank

[rkacruiser]

3 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Based on HAL's new announcement (all cruises are cancelled through March 31) it would seem that HAL's President was not aware of their own policy :).  I suspect there will now be no movement of any HAL vessel to US Waters until March.

 

Not surprised that President Gus is not in the loop.  He's probably still trying to find the Men's Room in their Seattle office.  (Forgive my cynicism.)  

[jayhawk66]

I notice that Eurodam is not one of the six ships listed as being re-crewed and moving towards the US. Any idea why?

[tkwbear]

47 minutes ago, jayhawk66 said:

I notice that Eurodam is not one of the six ships listed as being re-crewed and moving towards the US. Any idea why?

That is disappointing. The E is a nice upgrade over the Vista ships, which personally, I do not like.

[AtlantaCruiser72]

The ships moving to U.S. waters for eventual resumption of cruising will be Koningsdam, Nieuw Statendam, Nieuw Amsterdam, Westerdam, Zuiderdam, and Noordam. Specific arrival timing and locations are yet to be determined.

 

I wanted to return back to the original press release for a moment and focus on a few key words - EVENTUAL resumption & LOCATIONS are yet to be determined. I think these are key to the puzzle.

 

Eventual could mean April, June, August, October .......  The plan has ALWAYS been a slow, gradual restart over many, many months.  It will take most lines a minimum of 12-15 months to get all ships back in service most likely. 

 

Location - 4 of the 6 vessels are scheduled for Alaska, the other two for Europe. Could it be possible that Eurodam and Oostedam are both overdue for regulatory maintenance, and in an effort to preserve cash they are planning on replacing them with vessels that are ‘good to go’ and still attempt a 6 vessel Alaska season?  Nieuw Statendam and Westerdam could easily be used to replace Eurodam and Oosterdam from Seattle. Nothing says a vessel MUST restart ops from a Florida port, especially as HAL HQ is in Seattle.  Could it also be possible that they may homeport one or more vessels in Ft Lauderdale for the summer and offer a series of new short 4-7 day sailings?

 

There is a plan, and eventually we will know it.  Right now I’m sure the HAL management team in Seattle as well as the executives at Carnival Corp in Miami have a good idea of what they intend to do, barring any additional CDC curveballs.

Edited November 22, 2020 by AtlantaCruiser72

[Hlitner]

"Eventual could mean April, June, August, October .......  The plan has ALWAYS been a slow, gradual restart over many, many months.  It will take most lines a minimum of 12-15 months to get all ships back in service most likely. "

 

12-15 months?  We think not :).  Relying somewhat on the expertise of another frequent CC poster who is a working ship Chief Engineer (and who used to be an Engineer on cruise ships) this is just not true unless you are using HAL's oldest passengers to prepare a ship.   When ships are taken out of service they are generally put unto either warm or cold layup.  Warm layup means the ship is still nearly ready to go and has sufficient crew aboard to keep most systems up to snuff.  A ship in warm layup can be made operational very quickly once it is recrewed.  Cold Layup is somewhat like putting a ship into semi-mothballs and is what is now happening to many cruise ships.  They are generally anchored in a very safe anchorage with minimal engineering crew aboard sufficient to keep basic services (such as HVAC) operating.  Many systems are shut down and put into a condition that is conducive to long term shut-down with minimal deterioration.  Many other normal services such as constant cleaning of cabins and non-critical maintenance are halted.  Even insurance is reduced to a minimum.  Bringing a ship back from cold layup generally takes 6 to 12 weeks and there is often the necessity for new insurance surveys.  

 

What is happening to the cruise ships is almost unprecedented.  While recrewing, cleaning, getting all systems up and operating, restocking, and retraining does take time...this is all measured in weeks not 12-15 months.

 

There certainly could be an additional delay depending on what steps are imposed by the CDC and other similar organizations.  As of now the CDC requires 28 days notice for ships coming to US waters and crews must be "green lighted" as having been through the appropriate (which can change) quarantine and testing requirements.  But keep in mind a ship can be brought back online in a foreign location and recrewed.  Once the ship is operational it can start a long slow voyage to the US during which time the crew is meeting its quarantine requirement.  Once back in US Waters it would then have to take whatever additional steps are imposed by the CDC, PHS, and USCG.

 

Hank

[chengkp75]

I'll take a few exceptions with Hank's post.  Despite what cruise lines are calling them, no cruise ship is being placed in "cold" layup.  "Cold" layup means exactly that, the ship is cold (no engines running, and no power), typically looked at by one or two watchmen (along with other ships they are assigned to) for a couple of hours a day.  Most of the cruise ships are in "warm" layup, meaning that power is still provided, and nearly all systems are running, though at reduced capacity.  The crew is reduced to deck and engine departments, and this allows for humidity control to prevent deterioration of the hotel area.

 

While it is true that a ship could be brought out of warm layup and made ready for passengers in 60 days, that all depends on factors outside the ship, like travel restrictions on crew, and supply chain interruption during the global economic slow down.

 

As for the crew "green status", that could have been obtained months ago, if Carnival had wanted it, as other lines have done, even with ships parked far away from the US.  This does not need to be done in US waters, the same as much of the CDC certification, and the DOJ environmental certification.  Yes, a ship can be brought up to operational status, and meet nearly all of the CDC, USCG and DOJ requirements long before it even starts a passage towards the US.  The only requirements that need to happen in US waters will be the mock cruises.

 

There are some reporting timelines that need to be met, but again, the paperwork can be submitted long before the ship is fully crewed, or even started underway for the US.  

 

But, I think that Carnival is finally being somewhat realistic in suspending cruises through March, as many of these outside factors will delay start up of operations.  April will be the best case scenario, and if there are problems with obtaining port agreements, problems with mock cruises, or in Carnival Corp's case problems with the DOJ auditors and environmental compliance, then it could stretch on for a few more months.  12-15 months?  No.  6-8 months?  Definitely.

[travelhound]

On 11/18/2020 at 6:42 AM, Fatfish said:

From Crew Center website... Nov 18

 

Holland America Line is getting ready for a big comeback in the United States. In a letter sent to the employees, Holland America Line President Gus Antorcha said that after CDC issued a framework for conditional sailing, which allows eventual resumption of cruising, the company will deploy six ships in the U.S. waters in the coming weeks.

"Following in-depth discussions with the CDC, other government agencies, and medical and science authorities, we have decided to start moving six Holland America Line ships toward U.S. waters over the next several weeks to begin completing the requirements for conditional sailing." Mr. Antorcha said in the letter.

The ships moving to U.S. waters for eventual resumption of cruising will be Koningsdam, Nieuw Statendam, Nieuw Amsterdam, Westerdam, Zuiderdam, and Noordam. Specific arrival timing and locations are yet to be determined.

“While there is still much to be done, this is an important first step toward our goal of resuming cruise operations. Holland America Line will continue to work with the CDC on our eventual return to guest cruise operations. We are fully aligned with the CDC on our top priorities for compliance, protecting the environment, and the health, safety, and well-being of our guests, the people in communities we touch, our crew, and shoreside employees.” Gus Antorcha said. “Until we are able to communicate a specific date, we ask for, and appreciate your patience. We are committed to sharing more details as soon as possible.”

This is very good news. I hope to be able to sail on HAL soon 🙂

[AtlantaCruiser72]

The 12-15 month return to service timeline comment was related to ALL ships in the fleet, not the initial startup of the first ship(s).  It has NOTHING to do with mechanical, regulatory compliance, crew, etc - it all has to do with a gradual measured approach to ensure that things are done slowly, deliberately and safely.  It may also be contingent on any governmental restrictions on the # of ships they will allow in a port, etc.  It has been stated on several occasions by Arnold Donald, Frank DelRio and Richard Fain that it will take at least this long for them to return all ships in their respective corporations to service.

 

So yes SOME ships may be back in Service in February/March, some a month or two later, and a few month or so after that - but the ENTIRE fleet for most cruise lines will not return for at least 12+ months.  

 

Look at MSC in Europe - they have been sailing for several months but yet are only operating two ships I think?!  They have 19 ships in their entire fleet.  Costa is operating 1 ship I think, Aida 1 or 2 ships, TUI Mein Schiff I think 2 or 3.  These are only a portion of their fleets operating after several months.

 

Slow and steady wins this race!

Edited November 22, 2020 by AtlantaCruiser72