CDC New Guidance For Vaccinated People

[RocketMan275]

23 hours ago, 3kidsncats said:

 We had restaurants having illicit indoor dining for their regulars, and many, many people refusing to wear a mask. 

"Illicit dining" in the United States.  Just imagine that.  Sounds like the Speak Easys during prohibition. 

Does it  help to get in if you know Joe? 

[AtlantaAlly]

11 hours ago, AKR2011 said:

I'm wondering if this is true, where do news sources get their info from? NPR has higher percentage stats listed: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/01/28/960901166/how-is-the-covid-19-vaccination-campaign-going-in-your-state?t=1612192437280

 

Meanwhile here in NY, NPR says we've administered 75% while the state press releases always have us above 90%. I just want the truth.

The NY releases say 90+% of first doses, right? So they are holding onto some doses to make sure they have 2nd doses available when people are due, which is smart- considering the cluster that was PA in January with not enough shots for second doses.

[3kidsncats]

9 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

I'm sorry, but seeing the Governors of CA and NY in hot water (one about to be recalled and the other under investigation) is an irony I find absolutely delicious. I knew karma would catch up with them sooner or later. Serves 'em right for their heavy-handed, disastrous response to Covid.

I would say Newsom is not quite at “about to be recalled” status.  This is the 8th attempt, and none have yet reached enough support. I also don’t think his response to Covid was disastrous — not sure where you get that idea, but it’s not accurate.

[3kidsncats]

9 hours ago, farmersfight said:

 

Sincere here, if I made this thread too political, I apologize. If you read back through this thread, there are other political posts, so it wasn't just me.

 

Yeah, my comparison of Florida to California did have a potitical component to it, but it is hard not to when the Governors of each state make the calls with regard to shutdowns, mask wearing, etc.

 

As far as my comparison of California vs Florida being "entirely too simplistic to be anywhere near accurate", you better tell that to the CDC because I used their Covid data tracker (linked below). When I first made my comparison, I highlighted the total # of covid cases. Someone on this thread correctly pointed out that you can't look at total #'s of case because California's overall population is greater than Florida's (as you also infer by pointing out that CA has more multi-generational households). I agreed with this point. So, if you look at the rate (# of cases per 100K of people), California & Florida's case #'s are very similar. At the risk of being too political again, you can't tell me California kept schools, businesses, etc as open or more open than Florida.

 

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_casesper100k

Never said California kept things as open as FL — but that does not equate to full lockdown (apologies if I’m not quoting your exact term, but the gist at least).  I know quite a few people who live in FL, and they are extremely unhappy with how open things were.  There is a definite personal bias that comes into play when it comes to being for or against lockdowns.  In spite of our income being 100% based on live music and events, we fully support lockdown.  In good conscience we could never ask fans to congregate to provide us a living.  So my personal bias is not because we are still earning our regular income and can comfortably sit back and wait it out, but because we think everyone should care about our society as a whole, not just about our own well-being. 
 

And no, I don’t agree that CA and FL are similar.  You may be able to look at some data points, and think that proves your theory, but that doesn’t mean that the data points you are using accurately reflect the truth.  Again, you are intent on being simplistic and picking and choosing your data.  I’m also not currently a die hard believer in the CDC.  Over the past year, it has dropped the ball considerably.  And we don’t know yet, what the new staffing there will bring.  

[3kidsncats]

8 hours ago, macandlucy said:

It's literally impossible to know whether Cali or Florida did it better, covid -wise because one could make the argument that Cali would have had many more infections had they not locked down as hard as they did.  Conversely, you could say had they just left it up to the individual and individual businesses, like the Florida model (and after the initial few weeks to slow the spread) that they would have done just as well.  Can't know right now.

 

You can definitely say Florida did better on other measures though, job losses, mental health, school openings, economically.  Personally, I think this was the better approach because there's more to health than viral infections.  A wholistic approach to health, including mental health, social contacts, physical fitness, etc. is important.

 

There will be lots of data after the fact to analyze; maybe we'll get a better idea then and develop the best plan that everyone will follow, for the next pandemic. The degree to which politics and other unsavory, unrelated things muddied the waters of this one is tragic.

 

I agree, mostly.  We actually had a fairly open policy until our fall spike and were doing pretty well with case numbers until that point.  They started doing genome testing of older samples, and new cases in December/January and realized that a new, more contagious variant showed up in late August, and by mid/late December was on track to become the dominant strain, and the UK strain was also starting to be tracked here.  We had already re-initiated more restrictions, which are likely to have helped.  Except, that lots of people refused to follow them.  As you say, it is next to impossible to know if the lockdown did or didn’t help, because how are you going to track all the idiots like my next door neighbor, who had 50 people over for a tented party with bounce house with no care for the restrictions a few days after they went into effect.  But that’s also probably why they had ambulances arriving to transport a few of them to the hospital, a few weeks later 🙄

[milolii]

34 minutes ago, 3kidsncats said:

I agree, mostly.  We actually had a fairly open policy until our fall spike and were doing pretty well with case numbers until that point.  They started doing genome testing of older samples, and new cases in December/January and realized that a new, more contagious variant showed up in late August, and by mid/late December was on track to become the dominant strain, and the UK strain was also starting to be tracked here.  We had already re-initiated more restrictions, which are likely to have helped.  Except, that lots of people refused to follow them.  As you say, it is next to impossible to know if the lockdown did or didn’t help, because how are you going to track all the idiots like my next door neighbor, who had 50 people over for a tented party with bounce house with no care for the restrictions a few days after they went into effect.  But that’s also probably why they had ambulances arriving to transport a few of them to the hospital, a few weeks later 🙄

I agree with you and macandlucy. It will be a while before we know who did better.  Perhaps what worked well in one state didn’t work well in another.   I don’t think I should criticize another state. I can speak as a Californian, however.
 

We did perform very well until right before Thanksgiving.  I do think the new strain(s) will probably be the the main deciding culprit with events such as your neighbors’ party and many multigenerational households, particularly in Southern California, adding to the analysis. 

I saw first hand the strain on and in the hospitals right after Christmas. I shutter to think what would of happened should the December restrictions not occurred.  I was a patient(not CoVID) on the only floor in the hospital that was NOT a COVID floor.  I was in a closet, but grateful to have a bed.  The staff worked incredibly hard and thanks to their dedication and care, I tested negative again after I was discharged. 
 

California has more seniors(6 million) than any other state, including Florida.  We also have less hospital beds per capita.  Until the pandemic, California did not need as many beds. I decided not to go Into to that here, but there are several reasons for that.  The restrictions in December were put into place due to bed shortages, especially ICU beds.  
 

California alone  has the world’s 6th (often moving between  5th and 7th) largest economy and is poised to come “roaring back”.  Despite some reports, the state has not lost a large part of the population.   People did move out of the city of San Francisco, mostly due to the ability to work remotely. I am a native Floridian and have lived in several other states. But quite frankly, California in my opinion, “has it all”. I am sure many here feel the same way about their state, as you should. We should celebrate that, not tear each other down.  Really, I don’t see our friends from other countries disparaging their fellow citizens like this. What do they think of us?  So let’s get back to talking about cruising, OK?  You know chair hogs, best cabins, ship sponsored vs private shore excursions, menus and so forth. Hopefully we will be cruising soon. 

 

As for the Governor, he did make a mistake and owed up to it.  He was also elected with about 62% of the vote. You are correct recalls started shortly after he took office.  Do I Agree with all he has  done?  No, I  don’t. We will see what happens, but my guess is the votes just aren’t there. But we may have to suffer though the bombardment of advertising we largely avoided last year leading up to the 2020 election. 

 

[farmersfight]

4 hours ago, 3kidsncats said:

 I’m also not currently a die hard believer in the CDC.  Over the past year, it has dropped the ball considerably.

 

At least we agree on something.

[DCGuy64]

7 hours ago, 3kidsncats said:

I would say Newsom is not quite at “about to be recalled” status.  This is the 8th attempt, and none have yet reached enough support. I also don’t think his response to Covid was disastrous — not sure where you get that idea, but it’s not accurate.

So, I doubt I'm going to change your mind, but here's why I think his approach to Covid was disastrous - he's being RECALLED! Governors doing their jobs well don't get recalled. And the organizers have reportedly surpassed their goal in terms of signatures collected.

https://ballotpedia.org/Gavin_Newsom_recall,_Governor_of_California_(2019-2021)

Even if the recall effort ultimately fails, it still doesn't inspire confidence that millions of Californians don't even want their governor. I personally know people who've moved out of the state (and a number of well-known people and businesses have fled the state due to the burdensome regulations, high taxes and tacit support for the undocumented, among other things). Newsom's infamous maskless stint at The French Laundry only served to drive home the narrative that mask mandates are only for the little people. There's also the matter of his kids continuing to attend (private) school in person since November while less affluent California parents can't afford to do that. We could go back and forth about this all day, but we won't because I work from home and am going out of town tomorrow (to Florida, as it happens). I wish you a good day but I'm done and have to finish work, as well as prepare for our trip and for a mass I'm singing tonight for the Feast of St Joseph. Goodbye and have a nice weekend.

[AstoriaPreppy]

On 3/18/2021 at 4:17 AM, farmersfight said:

Sounds like your governor dining with lobbyists at a posh Napa Valley restaurant; indoors, not wearing a mask.

Do you know how hard it is to get a reservation at the French Laundry?? It's like the Cagney's of real restaurants!! 

(also, the dinner was outside)

[moto_italia]

2 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

and for a mass I'm singing tonight for the Feast of St Joseph. Goodbye and have a nice weekend.

Don't forget that today's Feast of St Joseph is a Solemnity.  And as such, it overshadows the requirement of abstinence from meat on Fridays during lent.

"The laws of the Catholic Church provide for the occurrence of Feast Days during Fridays in Lent. Canon 1251 from the 1983 Code of Canon Law addresses this situation:

Canon 1251:  Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday."

https://www.theadvertiser.com/story/news/2021/03/19/do-catholics-need-abstain-meat-saint-josephs-day-feast-day/4715139001/

[DCGuy64]

51 minutes ago, moto_italia said:

Don't forget that today's Feast of St Joseph is a Solemnity.  And as such, it overshadows the requirement of abstinence from meat on Fridays during lent.

"The laws of the Catholic Church provide for the occurrence of Feast Days during Fridays in Lent. Canon 1251 from the 1983 Code of Canon Law addresses this situation:

Canon 1251:  Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday."

https://www.theadvertiser.com/story/news/2021/03/19/do-catholics-need-abstain-meat-saint-josephs-day-feast-day/4715139001/

You have no idea how long we debated this point on Tuesday night at dinner. I even quoted Canon 1251 and people weren't convinced. Nobody debates loopholes and minutiae like us Catholics, LOL.

[moto_italia]

5 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Nobody debates loopholes and minutiae like us Catholics, LOL.

Hahahaha.  So true.  And now it's in print on the Internet.  We all know that if it's in print on the Internet, it's undeniably true.  Pretty sure most of the recent threads in this forum have been built on that principle.  

[GonzoWCS]

19 hours ago, macandlucy said:

It's literally impossible to know whether Cali or Florida did it better, covid -wise because one could make the argument that Cali would have had many more infections had they not locked down as hard as they did.  Conversely, you could say had they just left it up to the individual and individual businesses, like the Florida model (and after the initial few weeks to slow the spread) that they would have done just as well.  Can't know right now.

 

You can definitely say Florida did better on other measures though, job losses, mental health, school openings, economically.  Personally, I think this was the better approach because there's more to health than viral infections.  A wholistic approach to health, including mental health, social contacts, physical fitness, etc. is important.

 

There will be lots of data after the fact to analyze; maybe we'll get a better idea then and develop the best plan that everyone will follow, for the next pandemic. The degree to which politics and other unsavory, unrelated things muddied the waters of this one is tragic.

 

Agreed!

[GonzoWCS]

16 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

"Illicit dining" in the United States.  Just imagine that.  Sounds like the Speak Easys during prohibition. 

Does it  help to get in if you know Joe? 

That does sound a bit scary

[farmersfight]

5 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

So, I doubt I'm going to change your mind, but here's why I think his approach to Covid was disastrous - he's being RECALLED! Governors doing their jobs well don't get recalled. And the organizers have reportedly surpassed their goal in terms of signatures collected.

 

Yeah, they got over 2.1 million signatures and needed only 1,495,709. As long as there are no "shenanigans" with the California Secretary of State's office validating the signatures, it looks like there will be a recall election.

 

5 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

I work from home and am going out of town tomorrow (to Florida, as it happens).

 

Have fun in the "sunshine state", a state who's governor did it right responding to the covid pandemic in his state.

[farmersfight]

3 hours ago, AstoriaPreppy said:

Do you know how hard it is to get a reservation at the French Laundry?? It's like the Cagney's of real restaurants!! 

(also, the dinner was outside)

 

Don't know, don't care.

 

(I don't consider a room enclosed on three sides with the fourth side open to be "outside". Plus, the fourth side was eventually closed making the dinner inside).

 

"Newsom apologized on Monday and described the dinner as outdoors. But the photos show Newsom and his wife, Jennifer Siebel Newsom, sitting maskless around a crowded table of 12 inside a room that was enclosed on three sides. The fourth side was open, though the woman who took the photos and provided them to Fox 11 said a sliding glass door eventually was closed after Newsom’s group became loud. The woman was not identified by the station."

 

Source: 5 KPIX CBS SF BayArea article dated Nov 18, 2020.

 

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2020/11/18/covid-gov-gavin-newsom-remains-on-hot-seat-over-french-laundry-dinner-party-after-photos-surface/

[AstoriaPreppy]

15 minutes ago, farmersfight said:

 

Don't know, don't care.

 

(I don't consider a room enclosed on three sides with the fourth side open to be "outside". Plus, the fourth side was eventually closed making the dinner inside).

 

"Newsom apologized on Monday and described the dinner as outdoors. But the photos show Newsom and his wife, Jennifer Siebel Newsom, sitting maskless around a crowded table of 12 inside a room that was enclosed on three sides. The fourth side was open, though the woman who took the photos and provided them to Fox 11 said a sliding glass door eventually was closed after Newsom’s group became loud. The woman was not identified by the station."

 

Source: 5 KPIX CBS SF BayArea article dated Nov 18, 2020.

 

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2020/11/18/covid-gov-gavin-newsom-remains-on-hot-seat-over-french-laundry-dinner-party-after-photos-surface/

That was a joke, not a personal attack! 

[RocketMan275]

13 hours ago, 3kidsncats said:

If legal public health restrictions prohibit indoor dining, then you really shouldn’t be offering it.  Zealots thinking they can decide if other adults can drink alcohol is not quite the same as trying to prevent/limit a deadly pandemic.  Surprised you don’t seem to be able to understand that distinction.  Your last comment is beyond stupid, and very whiny 

Your description of the 'illicit' dining for only a few select customers did strike me as having parallels with the speakeasy of the past.  I'm not sure why you would think that 'stupid' or 'very whiny'.

[3kidsncats]

11 hours ago, milolii said:

I agree with you and macandlucy. It will be a while before we know who did better.  Perhaps what worked well in one state didn’t work well in another.   I don’t think I should criticize another state. I can speak as a Californian, however.
 

We did perform very well until right before Thanksgiving.  I do think the new strain(s) will probably be the the main deciding culprit with events such as your neighbors’ party and many multigenerational households, particularly in Southern California, adding to the analysis. 

I saw first hand the strain on and in the hospitals right after Christmas. I shutter to think what would of happened should the December restrictions not occurred.  I was a patient(not CoVID) on the only floor in the hospital that was NOT a COVID floor.  I was in a closet, but grateful to have a bed.  The staff worked incredibly hard and thanks to their dedication and care, I tested negative again after I was discharged. 
 

California has more seniors(6 million) than any other state, including Florida.  We also have less hospital beds per capita.  Until the pandemic, California did not need as many beds. I decided not to go Into to that here, but there are several reasons for that.  The restrictions in December were put into place due to bed shortages, especially ICU beds.  
 

California alone  has the world’s 6th (often moving between  5th and 7th) largest economy and is poised to come “roaring back”.  Despite some reports, the state has not lost a large part of the population.   People did move out of the city of San Francisco, mostly due to the ability to work remotely. I am a native Floridian and have lived in several other states. But quite frankly, California in my opinion, “has it all”. I am sure many here feel the same way about their state, as you should. We should celebrate that, not tear each other down.  Really, I don’t see our friends from other countries disparaging their fellow citizens like this. What do they think of us?  So let’s get back to talking about cruising, OK?  You know chair hogs, best cabins, ship sponsored vs private shore excursions, menus and so forth. Hopefully we will be cruising soon. 

 

As for the Governor, he did make a mistake and owed up to it.  He was also elected with about 62% of the vote. You are correct recalls started shortly after he took office.  Do I Agree with all he has  done?  No, I  don’t. We will see what happens, but my guess is the votes just aren’t there. But we may have to suffer though the bombardment of advertising we largely avoided last year leading up to the 2020 election. 

 

I agree with everything you said.  Spot on

[3kidsncats]

Just now, RocketMan275 said:

Your description of the 'illicit' dining for only a few select customers did strike me as having parallels with the speakeasy of the past.  I'm not sure why you would think that 'stupid' or 'very whiny'.

Um, I said the last comment.  I’ll be more clear.  The last sentence.

[RocketMan275]

56 minutes ago, GonzoWCS said:

That does sound a bit scary

I didn't find it 'scary' so much as amusing.  

[RocketMan275]

Just now, 3kidsncats said:

Um, I said the last comment.  I’ll be more clear.  The last sentence.

I'll be clearer too.  In the movies, one knocked on the door of the speakeasy and explained to them who told you about the place, ie,  "Joe sent me." to gain entrance.  

[3kidsncats]

6 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

So, I doubt I'm going to change your mind, but here's why I think his approach to Covid was disastrous - he's being RECALLED! Governors doing their jobs well don't get recalled. And the organizers have reportedly surpassed their goal in terms of signatures collected.

https://ballotpedia.org/Gavin_Newsom_recall,_Governor_of_California_(2019-2021)

Even if the recall effort ultimately fails, it still doesn't inspire confidence that millions of Californians don't even want their governor. I personally know people who've moved out of the state (and a number of well-known people and businesses have fled the state due to the burdensome regulations, high taxes and tacit support for the undocumented, among other things). Newsom's infamous maskless stint at The French Laundry only served to drive home the narrative that mask mandates are only for the little people. There's also the matter of his kids continuing to attend (private) school in person since November while less affluent California parents can't afford to do that. We could go back and forth about this all day, but we won't because I work from home and am going out of town tomorrow (to Florida, as it happens). I wish you a good day but I'm done and have to finish work, as well as prepare for our trip and for a mass I'm singing tonight for the Feast of St Joseph. Goodbye and have a nice weekend.

Conservatives having trying to recall Newsom since he was elected and has nothing to do with handling of the pandemic response. Dissatisfaction with lockdowns is just a handy tool to rile up people to sign the petition so they can finally get it on the ballot.  Which looks likely to happen— we will probably end up wasting lots of taxpayer money for that by the end of the year, but ultimately, I don’t think it will work.  

 

And I would bet, that every family in the state, that had their kids in private school before the pandemic, have continued to do so.  Not sure how that is relevant?  Nor is it in anyway limited to one state.  Really, all you are arguing is a bunch of tired anti-California rhetoric.  It boggles my mind why so many want to try to disparage the state, and yet, everyone seems to move here.  If a few have decided to go back to their home states, or somewhere else, I don’t think the rest of us have a problem with that. I wish them well.
 

Businesses are always complaining about California, and relocating, or threatening to do so, and yet most stay because ultimately it benefits them to do business here.  Also, nothing new about that, specific to the pandemic or lockdown.  Personally, I’m happier having businesses here in the state that care as much about their employees as their bottom line.  It’s a beneficial cycle — when employees feel respected, they feel more committed to their job, tend to be more productive, and turnover is decreased.  Win-win.  

 

 

[3kidsncats]

20 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

I'll be clearer too.  In the movies, one knocked on the door of the speakeasy and explained to them who told you about the place, ie,  "Joe sent me." to gain entrance.  

So?  I would think it was pretty clear in all my comments here, that I’m not in favor of disregarding health policies —so a nice flip comment implying I was taking advantage of indoor dining when it was not allowed is pretty snarky.

[ukbecky]

14 hours ago, 3kidsncats said:

 Zealots thinking they can decide if other adults can _______

 

is wrong. 

 

 

 

Agreeing with said zealots does not make the zealotry right.