Is Royal Caribbean trying to get all Canadians to cancel their planned cruises?

[JRG]

1 minute ago, scottbee said:

no, it's not.  This is a case of the same vaccine twice, but the manufacturer of one of the two doses isn't recognized.   Covishield and AstraZeneca are the same formulation; but made in different plants.

 

We have experts on board who can give you a better answer,  I will pass the shoe.

 

Not to be argumentative but it seems like Problem A to me.   No need to make more problems if they don't really exist I say.   

 

This might help some of your fellow countrymen manage their plans so thanks in advance for contributing.

[Mark_UK]

1 hour ago, orville99 said:

Both quoted studies detail 2-dose results administered within the manufacturer's EUA guidelines. Thanks for making my point.

 

What? No it doesn't. Both of those studies are population level stats in the UK. Hardly anyone here has been vaccinated at 4 weeks, not even clinically vulnerable.  

[Fabulous97]

18 minutes ago, Mark_UK said:

 

What? No it doesn't. Both of those studies are population level stats in the UK. Hardly anyone here has been vaccinated at 4 weeks, not even clinically vulnerable.  

Exactly, 8 weeks is the earliest and you will not get around it either! My first jab came from the 5million does made in India for AZ!

[scottbee]

10 minutes ago, Fabulous97 said:

Exactly, 8 weeks is the earliest and you will not get around it either! My first jab came from the 5million does made in India for AZ!

I'm curious. Does your vaccination record show it as different?  I'm in the same boat here in Canada, with my records showing

Dose 1: "Covisheild" (aka Indian AZ)
Dose 2: "Astra Zeneca"
 

[MaddyandMax]

1 hour ago, JRG said:

 

Here is how I comprehend the cruise and travel issues for Canadians.

 

Problem A----Over 1 Million Canadians have a Mixed Vaccine per the papers.

   Causing---cannot travel or cruise where the Mixed Vaccine is not yet approved.

 

Problem B--an unknown number of Canadians may have an elapsed interval in their vax.

    Causing---cannot travel or cruise where the interval has lapsed invalidating mfg. requirements.

 

How big is the number of Problem B individuals?

Much of Canadian travel is paralyzed except for those who qualify.   That is the reality and things are in the hands of the scientists to move the pile right now.

 

Remember that businesses relying on US Canada border on both side are hurt by this.

The US has problem on the southern border that cannot be comprehended here.

 

 

Problem B affects almost every single Canadian. Unless your one of the roughly 3% of the 80% of Canadians who has their first shot (meaning you got your first dose in the past 2-3 weeks) you waited a minimum of 8 weeks between doses. I’m in a hotspot and got my second shot “rapid” and am still 3 days short of 8 weeks between shots. I’m also mixed but with mRNA. But my biggest hurdle will most likely be the time frame of my shots.

 

my father who is 69 with COPD is almost 11 weeks between shots. 

As noted before we aren’t the only country to do this so it’ll be interesting to see how long the CDC keeps their stance. The science emerging appears to be on our side. The world leaders need to get together and figure this out. 

[Mark_UK]

29 minutes ago, scottbee said:

I'm curious. Does your vaccination record show it as different?  I'm in the same boat here in Canada, with my records showing

Dose 1: "Covisheild" (aka Indian AZ)
Dose 2: "Astra Zeneca"
 

Looks like this, though more detail if you click through, it also shows a QR code as a 'pass' but I don't have that yet as not been 14 days since my 2nd. 

[topnole]

2 hours ago, flamingos said:

 

Please stop repeating that debunked line.  That was at the very beginning, when medical masks were in short supply; once cloth masks came into use they were recommended and modeled by medical personnel at every White House briefing.   Know your facts.

Debunked?   By who?   
 

They did specifically say not to wear masks and in fact they said they wouldn’t protect the average person and if worn wrong could cause more harm than good (among other poor messaging themes).  Now as to why they said what they said can be discussed, but your idea of debunked is interesting because they absolutely said masks aren’t needed for the general public before they changed their minds on the message.  
 

The WHO and the CDC did a really bad job on this because they think people are too stupid to understand things and they didn’t want to create panic. 
 

[MsDolly]

1 hour ago, JRG said:

 

Causing what exactly?   Not being finicky,  just keeping the same plane of thought.

 

(if the effect is the same as in Problem A,   then it is Problem A and not a new Problem C)

CovidShield is not accepted in most of Europe, limits where we can cruise/travel.  I think the timeline between shots is the least of our issues so I am going to opt for a third shot to match the Pfizer shot I received in June (more than 42 days ago).

[scottbee]

7 minutes ago, MsDolly said:

CovidShield is not accepted in most of Europe, limits where we can cruise/travel.  I think the timeline between shots is the least of our issues so I am going to opt for a third shot to match the Pfizer shot I received in June (more than 42 days ago).

 

I believe while France and Italy are holding out, most of the other major EU members accept it, including Germany, Austria, Netherlands, Spain, Ireland and Greece.

 

[Russ Lomas]

7 hours ago, Jimbo said:

I agree, there comes a time when cruising isn't all that. Plenty of other kinds of vacations to go on and spend your money on.

Agreed, but for those of us who have a cruise booked in the next week or two, it is not that easy to pivot and change plans.  Plane tickets are booked, time booked off work, prices of flights seem to be going up very quickly as well the past couple of weeks.

 

2 hours ago, Mark_UK said:

What? No it doesn't. Both of those studies are population level stats in the UK. Hardly anyone here has been vaccinated at 4 weeks, not even clinically vulnerable.  

I was wondering the same thing as you.  Neither of the articles you shared said anything about receiving a 2nd dose in less than 42 days.  Since the study was performed in the UK, that means that probably everyone in the study received their 2nd dose after 42 days in fact.

[Mark_UK]

 

A useful breakdown of data indicating why the longer interval is proving more effective comparing population data from UK (8-12 weeks) and Israel (3 weeks) use of Pfizer. 

[DHLuCruise]

 

If you follow that twitter link. RC seems to be confirming the date restriction IS ONLY for mixed and not for same doses. 

 

Not helpful for the mixed dose crowd but does help others.

Edited July 26, 2021 by DHLuCruise
Wrong link

[Ourusualbeach]

10 minutes ago, DHLuCruise said:

 

If you follow that twitter link. RC seems to be confirming the date restriction IS ONLY for mixed and not for same doses. 

 

Not helpful for the mixed dose crowd but does help others.

They really need to have a statement put out by senior executives and posted on their website.  Unfortunately for every statement by someone lower down the food chain saying one thing someone else states the exact opposite.

[Tree_skier]

If I still resided in Canada I would be cancelling my upcoming cruise.  There is simply way too much potential for things to go wrong and end in disappointment.  Imagine showing up in Seattle, where vaccination is required, and being told not only are you considered non-vaccinated but you can't even board because this cruise, unlike the Florida departures, requires 12 and older to be vaccinated.  

 

Unless you are vaccinated with a US approved vaccine, within timeframe recommended by the vaccine manufacturers, you are playing craps with your vacation time and money.

 

Posting all the small scale studies out of the UK on this thread or the other one isn't going matter a tinkers dam.  The CDC, who are dictating what cruise lines in the US must do, aren't taking their marching orders from Health Canada or the NHS or any other countries governing health body.

[Mark_UK]

3 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

If I still resided in Canada I would be cancelling my upcoming cruise.  There is simply way too much potential for things to go wrong and end in disappointment.  Imagine showing up in Seattle, where vaccination is required, and being told not only are you considered non-vaccinated but you can't even board because this cruise, unlike the Florida departures, requires 12 and older to be vaccinated.  

 

Unless you are vaccinated with a US approved vaccine, within timeframe recommended by the vaccine manufacturers, you are playing craps with your vacation time and money.

 

Posting all the small scale studies out of the UK on this thread or the other one isn't going matter a tinkers dam.  The CDC, who are dictating what cruise lines in the US must do, aren't taking their marching orders from Health Canada or the NHS or any other countries governing health body.

Totally agree! I'm cancelling 2 November sailings for this reason. 

[BSocial]

I really feel for all who followed their Countries’ vaccine process, and now caught in Royal Caribbean vaccine limbo.   Is Royal being so strict out of US Ports due to CDC and their outdated CSO?   Does CSO mention vaccines or dates or types?   This is so sad for out Canadian neighbors - and UK friends also, it appears. 

[XLVIII]

2 hours ago, MsDolly said:

CovidShield is not accepted in most of Europe, limits where we can cruise/travel.  I think the timeline between shots is the least of our issues so I am going to opt for a third shot to match the Pfizer shot I received in June (more than 42 days ago).

Are you able to get a third shot in Alberta? We’re in Calgary too and would love to have that option. So far I’ve only heard of Quebec and Nova Scotia considering third doses. 

[steveandjen]

So, we are based in Vancouver Canada.  I just called the Royal 1-800 and spoke to a rep who then called his "health contact person".  We have a cruise that departs New Jersey on Dec 12.  I told the person on the phone the wife and I were both double vaxxed with Pfizer. (yes... we feel very lucky on this) 

 

I told them we are both at the 49 & 50 day mark from dose 1.  They said no protocols for NJ have been released yet.  I then said, ok, what if we were sailing from Seattle instead.  The person on the phone, after checking with the health person then said we would not be able to sail as the max interval is 42 days.  I told them there would be a lot of Canadians, along with people from the UK calling to cancel cruises if this is the case. 

[DirtyDawg]

1 hour ago, Tree_skier said:

If I still resided in Canada I would be cancelling my upcoming cruise.  There is simply way too much potential for things to go wrong and end in disappointment.  Imagine showing up in Seattle, where vaccination is required, and being told not only are you considered non-vaccinated but you can't even board because this cruise, unlike the Florida departures, requires 12 and older to be vaccinated.  

 

Unless you are vaccinated with a US approved vaccine, within timeframe recommended by the vaccine manufacturers, you are playing craps with your vacation time and money.

 

Posting all the small scale studies out of the UK on this thread or the other one isn't going matter a tinkers dam.  The CDC, who are dictating what cruise lines in the US must do, aren't taking their marching orders from Health Canada or the NHS or any other countries governing health body.

You hit the nail on the head. The CDC will get around to looking at the mixed vaccines and vaccination interval data when they get to it. If any entities could possibly speed up this process it would be domestic and political. Congress members from States that rely on foreign tourist dollars or lobbyists for the travel industry might try to exert some political pressure. Would they be successful, who knows.

Edited July 26, 2021 by DirtyDawg

[milkman3232]

Just finished reading Celebrity cruises policy regarding vaccinations 

 

They do not mention the 42 day Interval at all, come on Michael Bayley

 

Answer our emails!!

[steveandjen]

Hmm, I think this was just updated:https://www.royalcaribbean.com/the-healthy-sail-center/getting-ready-to-cruise?country=CAN 

 

Also, I know this is for Seattle, but check out the pics.

 

 

[mabt]

So I actually got a response from Mr. Bayley's office this afternoon, probably because I pointed out that my family will be forced to cancel our two staterooms on an imminent cruise if this policy stands.

 

It wasn't even a canned response - or not wholly, anyway - but unfortunately it didn't say anything helpful.  Just confirmed that the policy on mixed doses requires a maximum interval of 42 days (I didn't ask about same-manufacturer interval, and it wasn't specifically addressed), and that the policy is under continual review and might very well change again.

 

At least someone is listening.  Question for me is how long I'm willing to wait.

[steveandjen]

I just finished a FB messenger chat.  Please see below.

[Russ Lomas]

3 hours ago, DHLuCruise said:

 

If you follow that twitter link. RC seems to be confirming the date restriction IS ONLY for mixed and not for same doses. 

 

Not helpful for the mixed dose crowd but does help others.

Thanks for sharing this.  Gives us some hope.  Now if we could only get this from someone more "official" than Sam.  I would hate to arrive at the pier and be denied boarding due to this policy and I show them Sam's tweet.  I sure hope Sam is right and some of those other supervisors working for RCCL that said the opposite are wrong.

 

26 minutes ago, mabt said:

So I actually got a response from Mr. Bayley's office this afternoon, probably because I pointed out that my family will be forced to cancel our two staterooms on an imminent cruise if this policy stands.

 

It wasn't even a canned response - or not wholly, anyway - but unfortunately it didn't say anything helpful.  Just confirmed that the policy on mixed doses requires a maximum interval of 42 days (I didn't ask about same-manufacturer interval, and it wasn't specifically addressed), and that the policy is under continual review and might very well change again.

 

At least someone is listening.  Question for me is how long I'm willing to wait.

I got an email from Michael Bayley's office today confirming they had received my email ...and now we wait....

Thank you for contacting the Executive Office of Royal Caribbean International. Your e-mail has successfully been received and will be reviewed by an Executive Escalations Representative shortly.

Please allow us time to thoroughly review the contents of your correspondence and we will follow up with you upon completion.

Once again, thank you for taking the time to contact us. We look forward to communicating with you in the near future.

 

8 minutes ago, steveandjen said:

I just finished a FB messenger chat.  Please see below.

Thanks for posting.  Gives us a glimmer of hope.

[Russ Lomas]

I know someone from Toronto who is scheduled to fly to Florida this week and is on pins and needles needing to know if he will be denied boarding due to getting his vaccine doses 47 days apart.  He could still go anyways but will have a ton of restrictions placed on him in addition to having to pay about another $500 for testing (one prior to going to the ship, 3 on the ship, and one to be used to fly back to Canada).  This is per person, so for my family of 6 it would be an extra $3000 because we followed our health professionals guidelines and had the 2nd shot a week or two later (even thought the CDC considers us fully vaccinated on their website and do not require another dose).

 

This person got a call at 5 pm tonight asking him what vaccines he had and if he received his 2nd dose at least 2 weeks ago, which he did.  He then asked them (they did not ask him) about the 42 day thing even though he had 2 Pfizer shots and nobody on the phone brought up the issue of the dates of the shots.  Three hours later, and going onto the 3rd supervisor, he still did not get a definitive answer.  The second supervisor told him he would count as unvaccinated.  He asked to escalate the issue.

 

I know that the people on the phones are not the ones who will know the proper answer (they all seem to say different things).  What we need is RCCL to step up and provide a definitive answer quickly and to tell ALL their employees so that they all answer the same way.  I have not heard of this 42 day issue being brought up at all with any other cruise lines, Celebrity Cruises included...