Costa Magica to Carnival Fleet

[brilliantseas]

Carnival has been quiet regarding plans to assimilate Costa Magica into the Carnival fleet since the move was announced last year. At the time it was announced, I believe the timeframe was summer 2022. 

 

John Heald confirmed on Wednesday that "she is still very much going to be a part of our fleet," and will announce more details when they can share more. I'm still hopeful for summer 2022, although time seems to be running short for that to happen.

 

When do you think the re-branded (and hopefully Sunshine'd) Costa Magica will join the Carnival fleet, and where would you like to see it homeported? 

 

I'd love to see Carnival dedicate the ship to Norfolk year-round. The spring and fall sailings to Bermuda and the Bahamas go for a hefty premium and have proven that the port can fill a Dream-class ship on a seasonal basis. Perhaps it is too close to Baltimore, but that port is capacity constrained to a single ship per day and can not support anything larger than a Spirit-class ship, whereas Norfolk is further south and has the capacity for larger ships, including the Magica. 

[BlerkOne]

Magica has been tooling around Italy, so I image that is where any Sunshining will take place. I'm still thinking the ship might take over the Pride sailings this summer.

 

Beyond that, I think it depends on the Pandemic.

[Guest BasicSailor]

3 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Magica has been tooling around Italy, so I image that is where any Sunshining will take place. I'm still thinking the ship might take over the Pride sailings this summer.

 

Beyond that, I think it depends on the Pandemic.

After your mentioning this on the other thread, I did a bit of YT research on the ship.  Looks like Destiny reborn.  

[jsglow]

They HAVE been quiet, haven't they? The thought that she picks up the European itineraries isn't a bad one.  She can't serve in Tampa or Baltimore as she's too tall I believe.  So leaving Pride and Legend where they are, or (maybe flip flopping them). Carnival will want to showcase her in the same way they 'hyped' Radiance.  I wonder if they are waiting on how the Sunshining schedule might fit before making any commitments.

[BlerkOne]

Maybe 3rd time is a charm.... Or maybe I'll end up with 3 posts.

 

  

38 minutes ago, jsglow said:

They HAVE been quiet, haven't they? The thought that she picks up the European itineraries isn't a bad one.  She can't serve in Tampa or Baltimore as she's too tall I believe.  So leaving Pride and Legend where they are, or (maybe flip flopping them). Carnival will want to showcase her in the same way they 'hyped' Radiance.  I wonder if they are waiting on how the Sunshining schedule might fit before making any commitments.

I think the Magica Sunshining won't be as involved since I think the ship already has a higher passenger capacity than Sunshine. I doubt they would remove a deck.

[tidecat]

36 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Maybe 3rd time is a charm.... Or maybe I'll end up with 3 posts.

 

  

I think the Magica Sunshining won't be as involved since I think the ship already has a higher passenger capacity than Sunshine. I doubt they would remove a deck.

The Destiny class ships were never uniform - Triumph and Victory started with higher capacities-Destiny was the only one with fewer than 2700 lower beeths. When Destiny became Sunshine, she took the lead with 3,002 lower berths; Radiance and Sunrise only have 2,984.

 

Magica is starting out closer to Triumph and Victory in terms of passengers capacity, despite being only about 300 GT smaller than Sunshine. I would suspect the bulk of the conversion will be getting the additional staterooms on 3 Fwd and 5 Aft. Restaurants and public spaces will be updated to Carnival standards. There's also the issue of updating the funnel that is unique to this conversion.

 

It is quite possible that the ship's overall size in Gross Tonnage may not change at all. 

[vwrestler171]

2 hours ago, jsglow said:

They HAVE been quiet, haven't they? The thought that she picks up the European itineraries isn't a bad one.  She can't serve in Tampa or Baltimore as she's too tall I believe.  So leaving Pride and Legend where they are, or (maybe flip flopping them). Carnival will want to showcase her in the same way they 'hyped' Radiance.  I wonder if they are waiting on how the Sunshining schedule might fit before making any commitments.

Carnival just barely flipped Legend and Pride, they aren't going to do it again so soon.

 

As for the OPs thoughts about Norfolk, if they felt Norfolk would be viable, they would cruise from there more often.  Part of me wonders if it will go back to San Juan and restart the cruises from there.  Maybe even NY during the summer and then repo to Florida for the winter.  

[BlerkOne]

San Juan isn't currently that cruise ship friendly, but I wouldn't be surprised if Carnival is considering home porting a ship outside of the continental US. It makes more and more sense.

[SNJCruisers]

9 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

San Juan isn't currently that cruise ship friendly, but I wouldn't be surprised if Carnival is considering home porting a ship outside of the continental US. It makes more and more sense.

It would make sense, but in order for Carnival to be a leader instead of a follower regarding placing a ship in San Juan, they need to do it before the NCL Viva homeports there in November of 2023.

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, SNJCruisers said:

It would make sense, but in order for Carnival to be a leader instead of a follower regarding placing a ship in San Juan, they need to do it before the NCL Viva homeports there in November of 2023.

800 pound gorillas don't need to be on the bleeding edge. Let the smaller guy make the mistakes first. Carnival can seriously undercut the prices NCL is going to charge. Especially since Carnival will be doing it with an older, basically free ship.

[Guest BasicSailor]

20 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

800 pound gorillas don't need to be on the bleeding edge. Let the smaller guy make the mistakes first. Carnival can seriously undercut the prices NCL is going to charge. Especially since Carnival will be doing it with an older, basically free ship.

I still think it's the wrong time to be adding ships to the fleet, but we will see.

Edited January 28, 2022 by BasicSailor

[SNJCruisers]

59 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

800 pound gorillas don't need to be on the bleeding edge. Let the smaller guy make the mistakes first. Carnival can seriously undercut the prices NCL is going to charge. Especially since Carnival will be doing it with an older, basically free ship.

For those that like to cruise on old rust buckets, yes there will be that niche for Carnival to fill with the regurgitated Costa Magica at cut rate prices. 

The Viva will be to NCL what the Celebration is to Carnival, the second ship in a game changing class for their respective companies.

[SNJCruisers]

46 minutes ago, BasicSailor said:

I still think it's the wrong time to be adding ships to the fleet, but we will see.

Across the spectrum of all ocean cruise fleets, between 2022 and 2023 there are 25 new ships coming out.  Many bean counters must be convinced of a major bounce back effect.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

Across the spectrum of all ocean cruise fleets, between 2022 and 2023 there are 25 new ships coming out.  Many bean counters must be convinced of a major bounce back effect.

The maritime industry as a whole, including cruise ships, tends to be cyclical in nature.  High demand causes lines to order new tonnage, without thought about the competition also building new ships, and due to the lag time in construction, by the time all the new tonnage is in service, there is too much capacity, and fares drop.  These fare drops create more demand, leading to more newbuilding orders.  Rinse and repeat.  Those ships coming out in 2022, especially, were on the order books long before covid shut the industry down, leading to a massive reduction in demand.  The lag time in construction, and the high capital outlays required for newbuilds cannot predict unforeseen problems like a pandemic.

[mondello]

All great points Chief. Carnival loves to attract new cruisers, a vast pool of millions that have yet to try cruising. 

[shof515]

I would like to see Carnival home porting out of New York year round like what they did with the Splendor back in 2013/2014. I think what hurt the Splendor the most was the horrible itinerary they had during the winter months which was Port Canaveral, Nassau and Freeport. It would be better if they did some of the longer cruises out of NY going to St. Maarten, Antigua, Tortola

 

Both the Vista and Sunrise did 10 day cruises out of NY, it would be nice if carnival did similar cruises  again. Kinda of disappointed with the Magic cruises this year and next year

 

 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, mondello said:

All great points Chief. Carnival loves to attract new cruisers, a vast pool of millions that have yet to try cruising. 

My point was, that there wasn't likely accountants figuring on a "big bounce back", but that these new ships had been ordered long before the pandemic, and adding additional tonnage to a time of lower demand will create "over tonnage" and depress prices, so the lines will continue to struggle, and likely more older ships will be retired, or simply kept out of service longer, until the demand rises again.

[BlerkOne]

Carnival must be in a better position to utilize ships than other Carnival brands, as both old and new ships have been transferred to the line. Carnival Corp has already pruned the oldest, least profitable ships from the fleets.

 

 

[BlerkOne]

6 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

For those that like to cruise on old rust buckets, yes there will be that niche for Carnival to fill with the regurgitated Costa Magica at cut rate prices. 

The Viva will be to NCL what the Celebration is to Carnival, the second ship in a game changing class for their respective companies.

Celebration was a present to Carnival - who gave Viva to NCL?

[Guest BasicSailor]

19 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Carnival must be in a better position to utilize ships than other Carnival brands, as both old and new ships have been transferred to the line. Carnival Corp has already pruned the oldest, least profitable ships from the fleets.

 

 

Perhaps a few more Fantasy class ships are on that list. Hopefully not.

[tidecat]

4 hours ago, BasicSailor said:

Perhaps a few more Fantasy class ships are on that list. Hopefully not.

The conservative position would be to send Costa Magica to Port Canaveral, Elation to Mobile, and sell Sensation or Ecstasy (with Sensation to Jax if Ecstasy is sold).

 

Carnival Spirit and Carnival Splendor are also still idle.

[mondello]

7 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

My point was, that there wasn't likely accountants figuring on a "big bounce back", but that these new ships had been ordered long before the pandemic, and adding additional tonnage to a time of lower demand will create "over tonnage" and depress prices, so the lines will continue to struggle, and likely more older ships will be retired, or simply kept out of service longer, until the demand rises again.

I agree with everything you said. My point is that they don't mind the cyclic nature of oversupply keeping prices low. Sure, Celebration fares are at the top of the chart but, the price point is there to keep attracting new cruisers with the multiple ships in the fleet. Carnival grows the brand by offering a great overall travel value. It's a numbers racket: they don't have to satisfy everyone. They have a percentage of repeat guests and their business model continues to attract new cruisers to fill ships, the lifeblood of growth.

[BlerkOne]

7 hours ago, BasicSailor said:

Perhaps a few more Fantasy class ships are on that list. Hopefully not.

I doubt it. I think Carnival will spread ships out more and hedge bets going forward. Whether itinerary, port of embarkation, etc.

 

Cruising is quite cyclical. One day everyone wants to cruise to the Caribbean, or to Alaska, or the Med, or... It seems like ships are often out of position, hence the dance. Flying isn't that popular now, and too many flights still get canceled.

[Laurab23]

12 hours ago, shof515 said:

I would like to see Carnival home porting out of New York year round like what they did with the Splendor back in 2013/2014. I think what hurt the Splendor the most was the horrible itinerary they had during the winter months which was Port Canaveral, Nassau and Freeport. It would be better if they did some of the longer cruises out of NY going to St. Maarten, Antigua, Tortola

 

Both the Vista and Sunrise did 10 day cruises out of NY, it would be nice if carnival did similar cruises  again. Kinda of disappointed with the Magic cruises this year and next year

 

 

I totally agree. Carnival's NY season is way too short.

 

Laur

[SNJCruisers]

12 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Celebration was a present to Carnival - who gave Viva to NCL?

Who gave Celebration to Carnival?  Like I said, the Excel Class is a step up for Carnival, a game changer that finally provides them with a class of ship that can compete with the mega ships of RCI, NCL and MSC. Carnival was sitting with 20+ ships in their fleet with the largest topping out at 135K for too long. 

 

Having already come out with multiple 165+K ships years ago, well ahead of Carnival,  NCL has decided to take a step backwards sizewise with the development of the Prima Class.  The Prima Class in my opinion will do the same for NCL that the Excel Class has done for Carnival.  I've put my money on this hypothesis with 3 current bookings I have with them.