What Bucket List Item Failed to Live Up to Expectations?

[rkacruiser]

3 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

A mob scene can generally reduce any anticipated experience to a pain.

 

If one has done the appropriate research of a site, one ought to be able to anticipate crowded conditions and adjust their expectations accordingly.  

 

When I visited the Taj Mahal and the Vatican Museum, I was prepared for the crowds and planned what I hoped to be able to do to get the most out of my visits.  

[ilikeanswers]

4 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

If one has done the appropriate research of a site, one ought to be able to anticipate crowded conditions and adjust their expectations accordingly.  

 

When I visited the Taj Mahal and the Vatican Museum, I was prepared for the crowds and planned what I hoped to be able to do to get the most out of my visits.  

 

I would agree with this. I think I have written before that I never travelled pre mass tourism so for me crowds are part and parcel of the experience of a famous destination. When there is no crowds I consider that an added bonus like my visit to Kyoto's Fushimi Inari shrine. It is was great not to have a crowd and probably did elevate the experience but I would not have been disappointed had it been wall to wall humans as that was what I had been expecting. 

[navybankerteacher]

5 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

If one has done the appropriate research of a site, one ought to be able to anticipate crowded conditions and adjust their expectations accordingly.  

 

When I visited the Taj Mahal and the Vatican Museum, I was prepared for the crowds and planned what I hoped to be able to do to get the most out of my visits.  

Sure - research will alert you to the size of the crowds which will make it close to impossible to experience a place/event at its best -- and you should always try to "get the most" out of visits.  

 

But the wisest application of that research would be to find the dates/times (or even learn how to pay for semi-private access) so you have a chance of experiencing a thing at its best (or as close as possible to that best).

 

Why settle for just being "being prepared" for experience shattering mobs if that research can show you a way/time to avoid the worst of them?

Edited June 15, 2022 by navybankerteacher

[ldubs]

None of us like crowds, but all of us help make them.  

[navybankerteacher]

6 minutes ago, ldubs said:

None of us like crowds, but all of us help make them.  

But the thoughtful among us attempt to avoid contributing unnecessarily to them.

[ldubs]

6 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

But the thoughtful among us attempt to avoid contributing unnecessarily to them.

 

By staying home? 

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, ldubs said:

None of us like crowds, but all of us help make them.  

So true.

 

I was one of those at the original Woodstock festival, and it was better and special because of the crowd.

[cruiseny4life]

9 hours ago, ldubs said:

None of us like crowds, but all of us help make them.  

But it's ok if it's me! It's all the other slobs that make it terrible *please read the dry sarcasm in this post...I'm not serious y'all*

[navybankerteacher]

10 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

By staying home? 

There are times when some places are best simply avoided.  But, back to the point: going to a place when it is more crowded (because you have not bothered to figure things out) is contributing unnecessarily to a crowd.

 

I will stay home rather than go to a big box store on Black Friday, for example.

Edited June 15, 2022 by navybankerteacher

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, cruiseny4life said:

But it's ok if it's me! It's all the other slobs that make it terrible *please read the dry sarcasm in this post...I'm not serious y'all*

 

That famous Yogi Berra quote:  "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded". 

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

There are times when some places are best simply avoided.  But, back to the point: going to a place when it is more crowded (because you have not bothered to figure things out) is contributing unnecessarily to a crowd.

 

I will stay home rather than go to a big box store on Black Friday, for example.

 

I sure agree.   Sadly, no matter when we go, we are a headcount.  And sometimes it can't be avoided.   Travelers may be limited to peak seasons.  And some celebrations are just going to be crowded.  Going to the parade on July 5th to avoid the crowds isn't likely to be a lot of fun. 😃

 

I went to the Dollar Tree on Black Friday.  It was pretty disappointing.   

[ilikeanswers]

48 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

There are times when some places are best simply avoided.  But, back to the point: going to a place when it is more crowded (because you have not bothered to figure things out) is contributing unnecessarily to a crowd.

 

Not everyone has the luxury to visit a place at the "right time" plus trying coordinate every visit to the least crowded time isn't easy or necessarily realistic especially for travellers with time constraints unless someone can figure out how we can be in two places at once😂. 

 

And while I do enjoy a good after hours tour they are pricey, doing one for every famous place I visit would eat up a chunk of my budget so at some point I have to  prioritise and just join a crowd.

 

Besides some places can be more authentic with crowds. I remember in the Palace of Versailles they said during Louis XIV reign up to 10,000 people were living in and around the grounds. So having wall to wall tourists is really in keeping with the crowded authenticity of its history😜. 

[Cruise Junky]

18 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

If one has done the appropriate research of a site, one ought to be able to anticipate crowded conditions and adjust their expectations accordingly.  

 

When I visited the Taj Mahal and the Vatican Museum, I was prepared for the crowds and planned what I hoped to be able to do to get the most out of my visits.  

This is an interesting take seeing as most people are in a location for 1 day for up to 8 hours. How exactly should they plan to visit a spot on a tour when it’s less busy?  You either go or don’t go when you have the restrictions of a cruise. 

[ldubs]

Just now, Cruise Junky said:

This is an interesting take seeing as most people are in a location for 1 day for up to 8 hours. How exactly should they plan to visit a spot on a tour when it’s less busy?  You either go or don’t go when you have the restrictions of a cruise. 

 

Sometimes we might have the option to pick our cruise dates.   Of course, some places are seasonal and some (most) folk don't have that flexibility.   

[cruisemom42]

7 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

Besides some places can be more authentic with crowds. I remember in the Palace of Versailles they said during Louis XIV reign up to 10,000 people were living in and around the grounds. So having wall to wall tourists is really in keeping with the crowded authenticity of its history😜. 

 

This is a really great point and one that I have reminded myself of on several occasions. We tend to think of some of these places or sites through the lens of the "Grand Tour" in the 1700s-1800s when travel was difficult and mainly for the rich, and many of these places had become backwaters. It was only a couple hundred years ago that cows were grazing inside the Colosseum in Rome and Athens was a dusty little town with some ruins on a hill....

 

But if you think back to their heyday, these were bustling places. Ancient Rome must have been absolutely heaving with people living in buildings of up to 5-6 stories within a crowded area inside the city walls. People complained of the noise of carts and traffic all day AND all night. Imagine the crowds on a day when there were events at the Colosseum -- or worse, the Circus Maximus which could hold up to 150,000 people.  Nowadays you can visit it with far fewer crowds than that. 😉

[ontheweb]

28 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

I sure agree.   Sadly, no matter when we go, we are a headcount.  And sometimes it can't be avoided.   Travelers may be limited to peak seasons.  And some celebrations are just going to be crowded.  Going to the parade on July 5th to avoid the crowds isn't likely to be a lot of fun. 😃

 

I went to the Dollar Tree on Black Friday.  It was pretty disappointing.   

And visiting Dollar Tree will be even more disappointing as they are now $1.25 Tree, even though they have not changed their name.

[cruisemom42]

1 minute ago, ontheweb said:

And visiting Dollar Tree will be even more disappointing as they are now $1.25 Tree, even though they have not changed their name.

 

Inflation. 😏

[ontheweb]

24 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Inflation. 😏

They  actually changed well before we got into the inflationary times we now are in, IIRC, it happened late last year.

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

Ancient Rome must have been absolutely heaving with people living in buildings of up to 5-6 stories within a crowded area inside the city walls. People complained of the noise of carts and traffic all day AND all night.

 

Juvenal, a poet and writer in 1st century AD Rome wrote:

 

The wheels creak by on the narrow

Streets of the wards, the drivers squabble and brawl when they're stopped,

More than enough to frustrate the drowsiest son of a sea cow.

When his business calls, the crowd makes way as the rich man, carried high in his car, rides over them, reading or writing,

Even taking a snooze, perhaps, for the motion's composing.

Still, he gets where he wants before we do, for all of our hurry.

 

Traffic gets in our way, in front, around and behind us,

Somebody gives me a shove with an elbow, or two by‐four scantling.

One clunks my head with beam, another cracks down with a beer keg.

Mud is thick on my shins, I am trampled by some body's big feet....

 

This is not all you must fear. Shut up your house or your store,

Bolts and padlocks and bars will never keep out all the burglars,

Or a holdup man will do you in with a switch blade....

[slidergirl]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

 

I sure agree.   Sadly, no matter when we go, we are a headcount.  And sometimes it can't be avoided.   Travelers may be limited to peak seasons.  And some celebrations are just going to be crowded.  Going to the parade on July 5th to avoid the crowds isn't likely to be a lot of fun. 😃

 

I went to the Dollar Tree on Black Friday.  It was pretty disappointing.   

Here in Utah, certain towns where the "predominant religion" rules, the 4th of July parades and festivities are actually held on the 3rd of 5th if the 4th falls on a Sunday... my town happily does not follow this rule.

 

For people "doing" Rome pre or post-cruise, there is more freedom to choose your time to visit certain places away from prime daytime.   Friday night at the Vatican Museums is a great thing!  Still buy your timed entry ahead.  When I did it, there were times I was the only person in a room - the Raphael Room was mine, so many others.  When I got to th Sistine Chapel, it was uncrowded and there were actually open chairs around the side to sit.  If you aren't going inside some things, they are great to see in the evening, lit up.  

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Juvenal, a poet and writer in 1st century AD Rome wrote:

…

Or a holdup man will do you in with a switch blade....

Yes, “…that vagabond with sudden knife at work…”. 
 

While he spoke clearly of many long-lasting urban ills, I do not think he was familiar with spring-loaded shivs.

[rkacruiser]

4 hours ago, slidergirl said:

For people "doing" Rome pre or post-cruise, there is more freedom to choose your time to visit certain places away from prime daytime

 

6 hours ago, Cruise Junky said:

How exactly should they plan to visit a spot on a tour when it’s less busy?  You either go or don’t go when you have the restrictions of a cruise. 

 

slidergirl's post is what I had in mind when I made my comment.  Certainly, when one is visiting a site that is apt to be crowded as part of a shore excursion, the need to "keep up with the group" and the time constraints does complicate the situation.  Even then, one can be prepared and mentally have a plan to be able to enjoy as much as they possibly can within those constraints.  

 

6 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

Imagine the crowds on a day when there were events at the Colosseum -

 

6 hours ago, ldubs said:

And some celebrations are just going to be crowded.  Going to the parade on July 5th to avoid the crowds isn't likely to be a lot of fun

 

There are some times when being part of a crowd helps to make that event special.  What would a high school or college commencement be like if there were not many in attendance?  What would a festival or fair be like if there were not others enjoying what you were enjoying?  

[cruisemom42]

6 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Yes, “…that vagabond with sudden knife at work…”. 
 

While he spoke clearly of many long-lasting urban ills, I do not think he was familiar with spring-loaded shivs.

 

Mea culpa, I grabbed the first translation I found.

 

It's a trend to modernize ancient texts to make them more relevant. You should've seen the translation of the Odyssey that my son's class used....  it was certainly no Lattimore.

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Mea culpa, I grabbed the first translation I found.

 

It's a trend to modernize ancient texts to make them more relevant. You should've seen the translation of the Odyssey that my son's class used....  it was certainly no Lattimore.

That does happen - often appropriately, because human nature is what it is, and what motivated people in 100 AD is largely relevant today.  But I remain hopeful that, over the years, there might just be some gradual upgrading.

[ldubs]

6 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

There are some times when being part of a crowd helps to make that event special.  What would a high school or college commencement be like if there were not many in attendance?  What would a festival or fair be like if there were not others enjoying what you were enjoying?  

 

So true.  On the other hand, I'm thinking in Pamplona, if no one showed up the bulls would probably be happier!  Haha.