Could a CDC change to pre-cruise testing requirements be coming soon?

[Ken the cruiser]

55 minutes ago, ldtr said:

How many cases would you accept on board before it impacts your decision to cruise?  After is not the number of cases one of the factors one would look at in protecting themselves.

 

Would you be happy if crew members that tested positive continued to work?  If no how much impact to services from staffing impacts to services are you willing to accept before it impacts you willingness to cruise? The number of cases on board would certainly impact the odds of crew cases.

Sorry, we’re in our late 60s and for us it’s actually immaterial how many C19 cases are onboard the last cruise. We implemented a “stay away from people” strategy on our first cruise back in August on the Edge and so far it’s worked pretty well, except for our last cruise.
 

After 18 days on the Caribbean Princess in May, my DW started showing mild symptoms on the last day and tested positive once we got home. But we are pretty sure she caught it when we were on a packed 11 passenger van where most folks weren’t wearing a mask, two of which were displaying C19 symptoms. And, yes, both of us were wearing masks along with 2 others while we were in the van. Lesson learned: don’t go on excursions where you are loaded into a small van rather than a large bus. 
 

As far as the crew goes, that’s the cruise line’s concern, not ours. But then again we’re pretty low maintenance. When I want a glass of wine, a triple Baileys or bottles of water, we’ll go to the nearest bar and get it. We don’t do room service or sit at a table in the lounge waiting to be served. But when we go to the MDR we make it clear we would like to be seated at the most undesirable table away from other folks. But again that’s just us.
 

Right now we have another 83 days booked before the end of the year, 21 on PCL, 24 on X and 38 on NCL, so having a plan in place to avoid people as much as possible is a must! But I will also say, it was a big stress relief when they removed the testing requirement when flying back to the US! 😁

[Fly and Sail]

7 minutes ago, AbbyCruiser45 said:

Unless you are implying that the captain was lying, we know there were zero cases on our sailing July 2021 (Capt. Kate provided daily updates) and we know there were over 3% spread on a recent Apex. So there is some understanding of cases on board.

 

We're in a MUCH different place now than July 2021, a full year later. And in much better shape. Vaccines and boosters have now been administered to the vast part of the population. Healthcare is no longer in danger of being stretched thin and cruise lines had ample opportunity to learn from experience and develop proper protocols.

[Ipeeinthepools]

47 minutes ago, tallnthensome said:

And what is the serious of this covid strain and impact on ports visited? None to very little? 

 

Sounds like you don't care about the people in the places you visit.

[tallnthensome]

20 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

Sounds like you don't care about the people in the places you visit.

I do ....  I like how you equate saying someone who is vaccinated and boosted as being someone that doesnt care about people. Are these people we are visiting vaccinated and are they getting tested to prevent getting tourists from getting sick especially if their port is higher on the CDC travel advisory list then where I am coming from? Perhaps they don't care about getting tourists sick. Should you scold them too? Yeah, it's all ridiculous.  

[Ipeeinthepools]

6 minutes ago, tallnthensome said:

I do ....  I like how you equate saying someone who is vaccinated and boosted as being someone that doesnt care about people. Are these people we are visiting vaccinated and are they getting tested to prevent getting tourists from getting sick especially if their port is higher on the CDC travel advisory list then where I am coming from? Perhaps they don't care about getting tourists sick. Should you scold them too? Yeah, it's all ridiculous.  

 

If many of the countries had the resources to do everything you suggest I'm sure they would do it.

[tallnthensome]

4 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

If many of the countries had the resources to do everything you suggest I'm sure they would do it.

Nope and it wouldn't even be considered.  Also I doubt that cruise passengers have more than a few seconds or even a minute of close contact with the people at the places cruisers visit on average.  The testing has not stopped covid aboard ships so it is indeed nonsense in this covid equation anymore. 

[Ken the cruiser]

1 hour ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Off to get onboard an eastbound 747 (It Never rains in Southern California...) ...and embark a cruise ship in Europe.

 

Taking full precautions to include pre-boarding testing.

 

Stay safe.

Have a fun cruise!!  We’re heading to our Med cruise in another 10 days!! Yay!!!

[Ipeeinthepools]

19 minutes ago, tallnthensome said:

Nope and it wouldn't even be considered.  Also I doubt that cruise passengers have more than a few seconds or even a minute of close contact with the people at the places cruisers visit on average.  The testing has not stopped covid aboard ships so it is indeed nonsense in this covid equation anymore. 

 

Try not to confuse reduced and stopped.  No one has ever suggested that pre-cruise testing can prevent all Covid positive passengers from boarding.   Taxi drivers, tour guides, bus drivers are just a couple of examples of people that have extended contact with tourists.

[tallnthensome]

22 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

Try not to confuse reduced and stopped.  No one has ever suggested that pre-cruise testing can prevent all Covid positive passengers from boarding.   Taxi drivers, tour guides, bus drivers are just a couple of examples of people that have extended contact with tourists.

It's time to stop pre cruise testing of tens of thousands of healthy people at pharmacies and clinics. Step outside of your small circle for a minute and  observe how ridiculous such an approach is. Shall we test tens of thousands of people for hepatitis as well just in case? The people you listed are exposed more to their own people a hundred times over . Are they tested to ride ? No ..... Test hundreds of thousands of healthy people where  99.5% of them won't have any contact with the taxi and bus drivers you mentioned. Makes no sense. 

Edited June 20, 2022 by tallnthensome

[Denny01]

38 minutes ago, tallnthensome said:

It's time to stop pre cruise testing of tens of thousands of healthy people at pharmacies and clinics. Step outside of your small circle for a minute and  observe how ridiculous such an approach is. Shall we test tens of thousands of people for hepatitis as well just in case? The people you listed are exposed more to their own people a hundred times over . Are they tested to ride ? No ..... Test hundreds of thousands of healthy people where  99.5% of them won't have any contact with the taxi and bus drivers you mentioned. Makes no sense. 

Hepatitis?!?!? You realize that disease is passed mainly via blood products, not air or touch. And about 1,800 or so died of this in the US, compared to 1Mil COVID. But go for that logic. It fits the arguments against testing quite fine.

 

I just tested positive for COVID. Been conservative, wearing a mask, have my shots and boosters and so on. But it is still all around us. I have a cruise in 11 days. 

 

No pre-boarding testing? No way. There are too many who hide their symptoms, even hide knowing they have COVID, as we’ve seen in previous posts of people saying they wont report being ill because it would interfere with their cruise. 

 

So in response to statements such as the one above, cruise lines will continue to attempt to protect the overall passengers. Even if we don’t understand even the basics of a Pandemic. 

 

Den

[TomTN]

2 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Sorry, we’re in our late 60s and for us it’s actually immaterial how many C19 cases are onboard the last cruise. We implemented a “stay away from people” strategy on our first cruise back in August on the Edge and so far it’s worked pretty well, except for our last cruise.
 

After 18 days on the Caribbean Princess in May, my DW started showing mild symptoms on the last day and tested positive once we got home. But we are pretty sure she caught it when we were on a packed 11 passenger van where most folks weren’t wearing a mask, two of which were displaying C19 symptoms. And, yes, both of us were wearing masks along with 2 others while we were in the van. Lesson learned: don’t go on excursions where you are loaded into a small van rather than a large bus. 
 

As far as the crew goes, that’s the cruise line’s concern, not ours. But then again we’re pretty low maintenance. When I want a glass of wine, a triple Baileys or bottles of water, we’ll go to the nearest bar and get it. We don’t do room service or sit at a table in the lounge waiting to be served. But when we go to the MDR we make it clear we would like to be seated at the most undesirable table away from other folks. But again that’s just us.
 

Right now we have another 83 days booked before the end of the year, 21 on PCL, 24 on X and 38 on NCL, so having a plan in place to avoid people as much as possible is a must! But I will also say, it was a big stress relief when they removed the testing requirement when flying back to the US! 😁

Caribbean Princess is the most crowded ship we have  been on in about 30 cruises. Perhaps it was not sailing anywhere close to full on your cruise. WE sailed on her in 2007 right after they added all the cabins.  Human gridlock at times.

[RichYak]

14 minutes ago, Denny01 said:

I just tested positive for COVID. Been conservative, wearing a mask, have my shots and boosters and so on. But it is still all around us. I have a cruise in 11 days. 

If your test was not a PCR make sure you get one done TODAY for the Certificate of Recovery. After today, you can't test anymore and truthfully answer the health questions. I wouldn't chance testing negative prior to your cruise.

[C4HCG]

17 minutes ago, Denny01 said:

Hepatitis?!?!? You realize that disease is passed mainly via blood products, not air or touch. And about 1,800 or so died of this in the US, compared to 1Mil COVID. But go for that logic. It fits the arguments against testing quite fine.

 

I just tested positive for COVID. Been conservative, wearing a mask, have my shots and boosters and so on. But it is still all around us. I have a cruise in 11 days. 

 

No pre-boarding testing? No way. There are too many who hide their symptoms, even hide knowing they have COVID, as we’ve seen in previous posts of people saying they wont report being ill because it would interfere with their cruise. 

 

So in response to statements such as the one above, cruise lines will continue to attempt to protect the overall passengers. Even if we don’t understand even the basics of a Pandemic. 

 

Den

Who doesn’t understand the basics of a pandemic? I would have thought we all do by now and many of want the testing to end for the reasons others have already explained on this and many other threads so I won’t repeat them.  

[Denny01]

15 minutes ago, RichYak said:

If your test was not a PCR make sure you get one done TODAY for the Certificate of Recovery. After today, you can't test anymore and truthfully answer the health questions. I wouldn't chance testing negative prior to your cruise.

Going that route. Thank you. 

[Ken the cruiser]

38 minutes ago, TomBeckCruise said:

Caribbean Princess is the most crowded ship we have  been on in about 30 cruises. Perhaps it was not sailing anywhere close to full on your cruise. WE sailed on her in 2007 right after they added all the cabins.  Human gridlock at times.

There was 1560 passengers (60% full) on our 18 day PC cruise that left from SF the end of April. That’s one nice thing about Princess’ longer cruises. They’re usually not as packed as the shorter 5-7 day cruises. 

[cangelmd]

5 hours ago, TeeRick said:

So in your opinion (which I respect)- what benchmark should be achieved to eliminate the requirement for pre-cruise testing?  Or do we do it forever?   Remember when we were all focused on the theoretical state of Herd Immunity which does not appear to be possible with this virus?

First, I think the benchmark may be in Celebrity hands because I think it is more about protecting the crew and keeping their risk at least no higher than it would be on land. Only they know, if they have looked at their data objectively, if testing is helping to reduce outbreaks in crew. I think from recent cruises vs our first trip after restart, that some of the measures they were demanding of crew weren’t sustainable any longer than first contract (which for some folks got extended way beyond what they originally signed up for ) and testing passengers will protect crew to some extent, even if it is minimal right now. I also think that things are in such flux week to week that they don’t want to initiate a change and run it thru CDC - early this fall when more ships come over for Caribbean season may be a different story.

Second, I think we are approaching “herd immunity” for Covid as a deadly disease (vs an infection), although we may not completely achieve it in the lifetime those of us over 60. I can see Covid killing people in similar ways and at a similar rate to flu in the vaccinated and boosted population. Those of us with any hint of increased risk, even if just age related, will likely need to continue to maintain immunity through vax boosts and native infections forever.

[TomTN]

26 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

There was 1560 passengers (60% full) on our 18 day PC cruise that left from SF the end of April. That’s one nice thing about Princess’ longer cruises. They’re usually not as packed as the shorter 5-7 day cruises. 

I think ours was a 10-11 night cruise. 

[phoenix_dream]

21 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

It groups people with COVID in one area who can be served by one set of attendants. If you stay in your cabin, then either your steward has to "suit up" every time they come near your cabin or they have to assign additional overworked crew to transit all over a large ship, taking on and taking off protective equipment with each new "isolation" cabin approached (bringing food, removing food, bringing cabin supplies, removing trash, etc.)

 

I'm sorry, but right now healthy crew that can work efficiently is a key commodity for cruise ships. Why would they want to increase their risk in that regard?

 

Also, are we so convinced that ventilation is contained within each and every cabin?  Be honest, as a healthy cruiser trying to avoid COVID, wouldn't you rather have all the cases together in an avoidable area?

 

But, okay, I understand. For most, it's all about "me"....

 

 

I think it's a very negative view on people to think for most it's "all about me".  My opinion differs from yours but it is based on my view of the logic of the situation.  I personally think people should be allowed to remain quarantined in their own cabins but it has nothing to do with the fact that of course I would personally prefer that.  Before Covid, if someone got norovirus they were confined in yes, their own cabin.  If they caught a flu virus, they were confined in their own cabin (actually by their own caution - I don't recall rules about it).  And yes, I know Covid can be more dangerous for some, but the facts are that for the vast majority of people vaccinated (and especially if boosted) the virus is mild or moderate - uncomfortable for some but not severe requiring hospitalization or similar.  Staff does not have to enter the cabin.  Food can be left right outside the door (opened by the passenger required to wear a KN 95 mask), as can supplies.  Cabins could be so notated so that crew members know to avoid entry.  

 

I also think that if people could remain in their own cabins, they would be much, much more likely to report the virus than not (for those for whom it is "all about me", which I know applies to some).  At the very least, people should be moved to a cabin with a balcony, which is what the CDC recommends.

 

The fact is that this virus is not going away.  We all hoped it would but that is not going to happen for so many reasons not worth listing here.  At some point in time- which IMHO we have already reached, barring a new more dangerous variant - we just have to start treating this virus similarly to the seasonal flu for people who are vaxxed (especially if we begin requiring boosters, which I hope happens soon for those who are eligible).  Statistically for those people, I believe the mortality and hospitalization rate is similar to those vaxxed against flu.  So why do we continue to treat it differently?  We don't move flu sufferers to a quarantine area.  We don't move people with bad colds to a quarantine area.  

[mfs2k]

8 hours ago, AbbyCruiser45 said:

The fault is that it is an extra hurdle that is seemingly not slowing the number of cases on board. I sailed last July with no pre-arrival testing and we had zero cases on board for a 7 day sailing. Compared to now, when there is pre-arrival testing and many ships are having 1-3% of the passengers infected. Case counts were higher in July 2021 than they are now. So then, what is the point of a covid mitigation measure that does not work well?

This answer makes no sense. You’re assuming transmission rate and number of cases was the same then and now and inferring testing is the reason there are more cases today. Really?

[Ken the cruiser]

I’ve used this John Hopkins website for over a year now to monitor the trends of C19 infections across the US. What I find interesting now is the continual low numbers being experienced in the hospitals across the US. If you haven’t seen this before, check it out.

 

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/new-cases-50-states

 

Edited June 20, 2022 by Ken the cruiser

[canderson]

33 minutes ago, mfs2k said:

This answer makes no sense. You’re assuming transmission rate and number of cases was the same then and now and inferring testing is the reason there are more cases today. Really?

As to the latter, yes.   The math is straightforward enough.

 

If you test 20 people, your maximum possible number of cases is 20.

If you test 100 people, your maximum possible number of cases is 100.

 

In both cases, assume any positivity number you like, but if it's 10% as has been reported, then you get 2 cases in the first instance, and 10 in the second.  The more testing that is done, the higher the 'case' rates will appear. 

 

Then there's the issue of a self-selecting group presenting for testing.  Those with symptoms are more likely to request testing, skewing the numbers higher than the actual % positive in the population.

 

That's why 'cases' has been a problematic metric from the start.

 

[Arizona Wildcat]

3 hours ago, cangelmd said:

First, I think the benchmark may be in Celebrity hands because I think it is more about protecting the crew and keeping their risk at least no higher than it would be on land. Only they know, if they have looked at their data objectively, if testing is helping to reduce outbreaks in crew. I think from recent cruises vs our first trip after restart, that some of the measures they were demanding of crew weren’t sustainable any longer than first contract (which for some folks got extended way beyond what they originally signed up for ) and testing passengers will protect crew to some extent, even if it is minimal right now. I also think that things are in such flux week to week that they don’t want to initiate a change and run it thru CDC - early this fall when more ships come over for Caribbean season may be a different story.

Second, I think we are approaching “herd immunity” for Covid as a deadly disease (vs an infection), although we may not completely achieve it in the lifetime those of us over 60. I can see Covid killing people in similar ways and at a similar rate to flu in the vaccinated and boosted population. Those of us with any hint of increased risk, even if just age related, will likely need to continue to maintain immunity through vax boosts and native infections forever.

Had a sad comment made today by the only physician in a small community average age well over 70.  Covid is becoming a lesser concern both because it's mutations seem to have created a disease that is less virulent AND those individuals in our community who were the weakest and most susceptible are mostly deceased.

[Arizona Wildcat]

20 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

I’ve used this John Hopkins website for over a year now to monitor the trends of C19 infections across the US. What I find interesting now is the continual low numbers being experienced in the hospitals across the US. If you haven’t seen this before, check it out.

 

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/new-cases-50-states

 

Ken good and accurate numbers.   The problem with cruising is many poorer countries do not have similar numbers and also have many without access to hospitals.  Take a look at Jamacia or Dominican Republic for the number of ICU beds.

Testing numbers and reported cases do not correlated because those that self test - 4 family and friends recently  - have no reason to self report.  BC Health Minister suggested reporting either way was only a very few.

[mfs2k]

7 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

it was a big stress relief when they removed the testing requirement when flying back to the US! 😁

that would stress me more than a mandatory pre cruise test because I’m not retired and extending my 2 week vacation for an extra week or two would be very inconvenient 

[Team Stag]

9 hours ago, AbbyCruiser45 said:

The fault is that it is an extra hurdle that is seemingly not slowing the number of cases on board. I sailed last July with no pre-arrival testing and we had zero cases on board for a 7 day sailing. Compared to now, when there is pre-arrival testing and many ships are having 1-3% of the passengers infected. Case counts were higher in July 2021 than they are now. So then, what is the point of a covid mitigation measure that does not work well?

The small fault in this logic is last July, Delta was just appearing & Omnicron was not even on the radar.  Also (only speaking for the US now), society was in a different place.  Some locations still had really strict regulations with office / restaurants etc.  A lot of companies still employed travel restrictions for employees as well as countries were still super strict (Canada comes to mind).  I would wager those willing to go on cruises in June / July of 2021 was a much smaller population than currently today.  There were a lot of wait & see vs today where many more are willing to cruise.

 

I went on a July cruise last year as well.  It was one of the best cruises I've been on.  It was nice not having to test to get on and I agree the communication was excellent from ship's leadership (Capt Kate in particular).  The best part was walking up the gangway and seeing the employees smiling faces as they said, "You can take that mask off if you want".  It was great.