Could a CDC change to pre-cruise testing requirements be coming soon?

[Mark_T]

4 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Right now in the US here is what the CDC recommends.

Thanks, and yes, that confirms that there are differences in the ages that the boosters are offered in different countries.

 

Just have to keep that in mind when defining 'fully vaccinated'.

[Ipeeinthepools]

Being fully vaccinated really has little to do with the benefit of pre-cruise testing.   Keeping Covid positive people off the ship is a benefit to both fully vaccinated people as well as anyone that might not have had all of the available vaccinations.

[Ken the cruiser]

3 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

The real question is:  How many people are identified with Covid with the pre-cruise testing?  Does anyone really want to sail with more Covid positive people on the ship?   As long as pre-cruise testing is finding a significant number of people, pre-cruise testing is a good idea.

I wonder if the cruise lines voluntarily report that type of pre-cruise information to the CDC? From what I can tell from scanning the CDC CSO, there is no requirement for them to do so. 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/covid19-operations-manual-cso.html

 

[Virginia100]

14 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

The real question is:  How many people are identified with Covid with the pre-cruise testing?  Does anyone really want to sail with more Covid positive people on the ship?   As long as pre-cruise testing is finding a significant number of people, pre-cruise testing is a good idea.

That’s a very good question and I have never seen any cruise line disclose that stat. It would be very helpful if each cruise upon sailing issued the percentage of passengers canceling due to failing the pre cruise test. Should be simple as each positive test results in a required refund or FCC. Does a body know the answer to this?

[LGW59]

Just now, Virginia100 said:

That’s a very good question and I have never seen any cruise line disclose that stat. It would be very helpful if each cruise upon sailing issued the percentage of passengers canceling due to failing the pre cruise test. Should be simple as each positive test results in a required refund or FCC. Does a body know the answer to this?

Once you’re already on board why would it matter?

[BigTorino]

6 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

The real question is:  How many people are identified with Covid with the pre-cruise testing?  Does anyone really want to sail with more Covid positive people on the ship?   As long as pre-cruise testing is finding a significant number of people, pre-cruise testing is a good idea.

I was sure relieved that we had pre-cruise testing on our Scandinavian cruise on Silhouette now in June. Despite pre-cruise testing, we still had over 1% COVID positive cases after a week, and that with only 910 passengers onboard! I can only imagine how bad it would have been without the pre-tests. A couple of fellow Roll Call folks were in isolation, and one person apparently real sick too. 

 

On a lighter note, we scored an onboard move-up due to someone else's pre-test misfortune. Bet this wouldn't have happened without COVID testing either. 

 

Hope X keeps pre-testing for all of our benefit - especially in keeping their wonderful crew safe. COVID isolation takes a serious financial toll on them.

Cruising right now is a gamble I'm willing to take.

[Virginia100]

2 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

Once you’re already on board why would it matter?

The idea is to see the overall impact that’s incurring over time. If it’s been the last two months on cruises, say .1%, then the pre cruise test are not preventing very much. If 10% are canceling on average then the tests have done merit.

[Ipeeinthepools]

Just now, LGW59 said:

Once you’re already on board why would it matter?

 

Ok, let's say we're going to cruise together.  😀  Let's assume I test positive before we board.  Would it be better for you if I am denied boarding?  Is it better for me if I am denied being Covid positive?  Even though I know you will be sad, I'll suggest the answer to both of those questions is yes.  That's why pre-cruise testing continues to be valuable.

[Virginia100]

2 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

Ok, let's say we're going to cruise together.  😀  Let's assume I test positive before we board.  Would it be better for you if I am denied boarding?  Is it better for me if I am denied being Covid positive?  Even though I know you will be sad, I'll suggest the answer to both of those questions is yes.  That's why pre-cruise testing continues to be valuable.

As an old accountant , a test only has merit if it has valid supporting data from a significant database that verifies its merit. Right now I don’t know how many passengers are failing their pre cruise Covid tests and what percentage of total booked passengers that represents. Any other conclusions on the effectiveness of the pre cruise test to significantly improve onboard health is a guess and based on one’s opinion. 

[Ken the cruiser]

I remember when cruising started back up. When we went on our first two B2B cruises, first in August and then again in November, we sailed out of Ft Lauderdale. On both occasions, they took our temperature when we first entered the terminal. If we failed the test, we were directed over to the Medical station where you would go through additional testing, which probably included taking a C19 test.
 

However, on our subsequent B2B cruises in Dec and Feb, both out of Ft Lauderdale, and most recently in April when we went on our PC cruise out of San Francisco, our temperatures were not taken. My guess is when CDC eventually eases up on their pre-cruise testing requirements, where some folks become exempt, taking one’s temperature again when entering the terminal will probably start back up, with similar follow-up protocols being implemented if one’s temperature exceeds a certain level.

 

Edited June 19, 2022 by Ken the cruiser

[LGW59]

20 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

Ok, let's say we're going to cruise together.  😀  Let's assume I test positive before we board.  Would it be better for you if I am denied boarding?  Is it better for me if I am denied being Covid positive?  Even though I know you will be sad, I'll suggest the answer to both of those questions is yes.  That's why pre-cruise testing continues to be valuable.

LOL!  Well I have canceled my October and December 2022 cruises, I know I know, here’s a tissue.  I canceled not because I don’t want to get Covid or because I care if someone has Covid on board.  I canceled because of what I see as ridiculous policy (regularly changing) policy of quarantine and/or isolation.  If I get Covid on board I’m not willing to be relocated from the suite that I booked.  It’s silly and does not prevent anything by me quarantining in my original room.  Had refundable deposits, canceled both early last week and had both refunds to my card yesterday.  So I’ll do a 2 week land vacation in Ireland instead and won’t be worrying or stressing over non-sensical policy.  Oh and someday I’ll be able to “buy” you that AI drink I promised you two years ago.

Edited June 19, 2022 by LGW59

[Ipeeinthepools]

2 minutes ago, Virginia100 said:

As an old accountant , a test only has merit if it has valid supporting data from a significant database that verifies its merit. Right now I don’t know how many passengers are failing their pre cruise Covid tests and what percentage of total booked passengers that represents. Any other conclusions on the effectiveness of the pre cruise test to significantly improve onboard health is a guess and based on one’s opinion. 

 

You're correct that was really my point back in post #24.  I was just having some fun with my friend LGW59 while assuming pre-cruise testing was finding a significant number of Covid possible people.

[Ipeeinthepools]

13 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

LOL!  Well I have canceled my October and December 2022 cruises, I know I know, here’s a tissue.  I canceled not because I don’t want to get Covid or because I care if someone has Covid on board.  I canceled because of what I see as ridiculous policy (regularly changing) policy of quarantine and/or isolation.  If I get Covid on board I’m not willing to be relocated from the suite that I booked.  It’s silly and does not prevent anything by me quarantining in my original room.  Had refundable deposits, canceled both early last week and had both refunds to my card yesterday.  So I’ll do a 2 week land vacation in Ireland instead and won’t be worrying or stressing over non-sensical policy.

 

I understand and we're taking a similar approach.  We've canceled a really nice B2B2B for the Pacific Islands, New Zealand and Australia for Jan/Feb 2023.  I don't want to be on the other side of the world and try to deal with ever changing quarantine and isolation policies.  I'll continue to cruise in the Caribbean but I'll largely keep to myself during the cruise.  I'll even keep my distance in the pool.  I won't do any bus excursions, go to the theater or crowded bars.   Even though the two-top tables are close together in the dining room, hopefully we'll stay safe.  But the recovery plan is much easier if I'm kicked off the ship in Fort Lauderdale as opposed to Sydney.  I'm still hoping that things improve in time for the Edge repositioning cruise in Fall 2023.  I'm looking forward to my free AI drink.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Ipeeinthepools

[Arizona Wildcat]

52 minutes ago, Virginia100 said:

That’s a very good question and I have never seen any cruise line disclose that stat. It would be very helpful if each cruise upon sailing issued the percentage of passengers canceling due to failing the pre cruise test. Should be simple as each positive test results in a required refund or FCC. Does a body know the answer to this?

How would cruise lines know?  People that test positive simply often cancel using CWC.

Using the general population seems somewhere under 1% might fail.  But sadly a negative test doesn't mean you don't have covid.

Also pre-cruise testing requirements are not just Europe.  Canada effects EVERY Alaska cruise for example. 

[LGW59]

24 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

I understand and we're taking a similar approach.  We've canceled a really nice B2B2B for the Pacific Islands, New Zealand and Australia for Jan/Feb 2023.  I don't want to be on the other side of the world and try to deal with ever changing quarantine and isolation policies.  I'll continue to cruise in the Caribbean but I'll largely keep to myself during the cruise.  I'll even keep my distance in the pool.  I won't do any bus excursions, go to the theater or crowded bars.   Even though the two-top tables are close together in the dining room, hopefully we'll stay safe.  But the recovery plan is much easier if I'm kicked off the ship in Fort Lauderdale as opposed to Sydney.  I'm still hoping that things improve in time for the Edge repositioning cruise in Fall 2023.  I'm looking forward to my free AI drink.

“I’ll even keep my distance in the pool”.  Now that is just not right!  Without Pee in the pool, what the hell kind of a cruise is that!! 

[Virginia100]

9 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

How would cruise lines know?  People that test positive simply often cancel using CWC.

Using the general population seems somewhere under 1% might fail.  But sadly a negative test doesn't mean you don't have covid.

Also pre-cruise testing requirements are not just Europe.  Canada effects EVERY Alaska cruise for example. 

Under CWC who issues the refund or FCC, the cruise line. They know or could easily calculate it (if not already done). Cruise passengers have a significantly higher level full vaccination or up to date vaccination then the US general population. If I remember correctly the US is 65% on one and 50% on the other. Cruise passenger are well over 95% I’m sure,  so if the US in general would have a fail rate of 1%, most likely skewed to the unvaccinated, then cruise line rates would be quite small.

True a negative  test doesn’t mean you don’t have it. Another reason why vaccination is more important than a test. It’s why a poster above is correct that any change in pre cruise testing by the CDC would almost certainly apply it at certain tiers of vaccination. Don’t want 1 or 2 boosters? Fine, but a test will be required in a shorter period if under or non vaccinated.

[cangelmd]

45 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

How would cruise lines know?  People that test positive simply often cancel using CWC.

Using the general population seems somewhere under 1% might fail.  But sadly a negative test doesn't mean you don't have covid.

Also pre-cruise testing requirements are not just Europe.  Canada effects EVERY Alaska cruise for example. 

I think it wouldn’t be that hard to get an estimate, and the estimate would become more accurate with time. If they had historical data about cancellation within final payment, just for argument, from say 2015 through 2018, and compared it to cancellation since restart, the difference would be Covid. If they had data that could be sorted by days before sailing, it would be even more accurate, but that would be asking a lot - why would they collect that data prior to Covid?

It might be interesting to know if during their discussions with CDC, the CDC ever asked about this data. The data could be a good estimate of the general prevalence of Covid in the population. Likely, no one thought of that until too late, it’s a real moving target.

[LuAnn]

3 hours ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

The real question is:  How many people are identified with Covid with the pre-cruise testing?  Does anyone really want to sail with more Covid positive people on the ship?   As long as pre-cruise testing is finding a significant number of people, pre-cruise testing is a good idea.

Whoops...posted something before I finished reading all the posts..never mind!! 🙂

Edited June 19, 2022 by LuAnn

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, LGW59 said:

I canceled because of what I see as ridiculous policy (regularly changing) policy of quarantine and/or isolation.  If I get Covid on board I’m not willing to be relocated from the suite that I booked.  It’s silly and does not prevent anything by me quarantining in my original room.

 

It groups people with COVID in one area who can be served by one set of attendants. If you stay in your cabin, then either your steward has to "suit up" every time they come near your cabin or they have to assign additional overworked crew to transit all over a large ship, taking on and taking off protective equipment with each new "isolation" cabin approached (bringing food, removing food, bringing cabin supplies, removing trash, etc.)

 

I'm sorry, but right now healthy crew that can work efficiently is a key commodity for cruise ships. Why would they want to increase their risk in that regard?

 

Also, are we so convinced that ventilation is contained within each and every cabin?  Be honest, as a healthy cruiser trying to avoid COVID, wouldn't you rather have all the cases together in an avoidable area?

 

But, okay, I understand. For most, it's all about "me"....

 

 

[LGW59]

4 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

It groups people with COVID in one area who can be served by one set of attendants. If you stay in your cabin, then either your steward has to "suit up" every time they come near your cabin or they have to assign additional overworked crew to transit all over a large ship, taking on and taking off protective equipment with each new "isolation" cabin approached (bringing food, removing food, bringing cabin supplies, removing trash, etc.)

 

I'm sorry, but right now healthy crew that can work efficiently is a key commodity for cruise ships. Why would they want to increase their risk in that regard?

 

Also, are we so convinced that ventilation is contained within each and every cabin?  Be honest, as a healthy cruiser trying to avoid COVID, wouldn't you rather have all the cases together in an avoidable area?

 

But, okay, I understand. For most, it's all about "me"....

 

 

Oh yes, the Covid hazmat suit, but I understand, for most the smoke and mirrors makes them feel safe

 

[Virginia100]

4 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

Oh yes, the Covid hazmat suit, but I understand, for most the smoke and mirrors makes them feel safe

 

It’s the China Syndrome’

[RichYak]

20 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

Be honest, as a healthy cruiser trying to avoid COVID, wouldn't you rather have all the cases together in an avoidable area?

Being honest, there's covid all over every ship. Some have chosen to allow themselves to be isolated in an avoidable area as you described. The rest are behind you on line at the omelet station, next to you at the martini bar, or two tables over at dinner. Most of them don't even know they have it.

[Ipeeinthepools]

13 minutes ago, RichYak said:

Being honest, there's covid all over every ship. Some have chosen to allow themselves to be isolated in an avoidable area as you described. The rest are behind you on line at the omelet station, next to you at the martini bar, or two tables over at dinner. Most of them don't even know they have it.

 

Does it help to keep some of the positive cases off the ship?

[RichYak]

12 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

Does it help to keep some of the positive cases off the ship?

It would be great to keep ALL of the positive cases off the ship, then there would be no need for any on board protocols like isolation. Unfortunately, that's not possible.

[sasset]

What's the current protocol on testing on back to backs in Italy?