Solstice B2B problem with Jones Act?

[abbydancer2003]

By the way, a more general term for this I think is Cabotage, or maybe that's the air version.  That's why you don't see Air Canada, for example, running flights between New York and Boston.  Or when you want to go from somewhere in the US to a secondary port in Europe that you can't do with a nonstop, the second leg is on a local airline.  And finally, when Virgin Atlantic wanted to do domestic US flights, they created Virgin America.  It's not just foreign flagged cruise lines.

[zgscl]

1 hour ago, bjahil47 said:

Just curious as to why disembarking in Vancouver at end of 1 st cruise and embarking in Victoria the next day satisfies the requirements. Thanks for explaining

The violation is that the traveler is trying to take a foreign flagged cruise ship from Seattle to Los Angeles which can only be done if you stop in a distant foreign port. Traveling Seattle to Vancouver by foreign flagged vessel is completely legal. As is Victoria to Los Angeles. You could in fact change to another ship in Vancouver that was departing the same day for Los Angeles if there was one. The PSVA looks at the itinerary from embarkation to disembarkation only. If you get off and get on in a different port or on a different ship then you have completed your voyage and met the requirements of the PSVA. 

[abbydancer2003]

29 minutes ago, zgscl said:

The PSVA looks at the itinerary from embarkation to disembarkation only. If you get off and get on in a different port or on a different ship then you have completed your voyage and met the requirements of the PSVA. 

And to further clarify the PSVA looks at first embarkation and last disembarkation.  Getting off and right back on as one usually does with a B2B doesn't satisfy that.  

[Fly and Sail]

On 6/23/2022 at 12:56 AM, cruisestitch said:

It would be Victoria, not Vancouver. It would require disembark in the ship a day early, and making your way from Victorianto The ship and then starting the next cruise. As noted, right now the cruise lines are not allowing disembiaring downline, the fancy term for leaving the ship before the end of the cruise

 

That's not correct. Celebrity allowed us to disembark in Victoria before the ship headed to Seattle. It was even printed in the daily program that "guests who wish to disembark in Victoria should notify Guest Relations two days before scheduled arrival".

 

I called Celebrity ahead of time and was told NO as well and was kinda furious they now offered it so casually. Decided on a whim to throw away my flight I had booked from Seattle and stayed in Victoria for a night before taking the seaplane to Vancouver. Mind you, it's almost impossible to get a flight to Vancouver the same evening (we arrived on Solstice and couldn't get off the ship before 6:45pm).

[cruisestitch]

When was this, Fly and Sail?

[Arizona Wildcat]

On 6/22/2022 at 10:41 AM, TXranchgal said:

We tried to disembark in Victoria the day before the 1st cruise ended.  We wanted to stay in Victoria until day 2 of the 2nd cruise and pick up the ship again there. 

 

We were told NO!!!  because nowhere in Canada is considered a "DISTANT" port from California or Washington.  

 

We rebooked with another cruise line and are doing the East Coast instead...

 

 

In prior years we have disembarked a West Coast cruise (LA to Vancouver) is Victoria.   It is not a violation and Celebrity charged us for "additional customs charges " the first time.  The second time we simply disembarked and got a naughty letter. (We often summer near Victoria).

Today as others have said disembarking early is not permitted by either Canada or the cruiselines because of covid protocols - the info stated by Canada CBP in Port of Victoria early this month.

[Boytjie]

19 hours ago, Fly and Sail said:

 

That's not correct. Celebrity allowed us to disembark in Victoria before the ship headed to Seattle. It was even printed in the daily program that "guests who wish to disembark in Victoria should notify Guest Relations two days before scheduled arrival".

 

 

That is OK because the passengers' final disembarkation was in a Canadian port, so the American PVSA law does not apply.

[Alakegirl]

It says the ship went on to Seattle, so presumably PVSA would be in effect

[Fly and Sail]

14 hours ago, Boytjie said:

 

That is OK because the passengers' final disembarkation was in a Canadian port, so the American PVSA law does not apply.

 

The why did Celebrity tell me ahead of time that this wont be possible? Either way I have forwarded this matter to upper management for resolution.

[Alakegirl]

Fly and sail, exactly what is the proposed itinerary and exactly what did Celebrity tell you?  When are you sailing?  Please give us all the details and maybe we can help make sense of what is going on

[canderson]

IMO, it's inexcusable that X's IT system, or that of any other line, even allows cruises with PVSA issues to be booked.  This idiocy of a line 'discovering' the problem a couple of weeks ahead of embarkation says that the problem CAN and should be discovered sooner, preferably by having the res system deny the 2nd reservation to begin with.  This isn't rocket science.  Simple process of coding each itinerary by embarkation and disembarkation locations, and applying a simple rule that an X itinerary cannot follow a Y itinerary.

[Fly and Sail]

21 hours ago, Alakegirl said:

Fly and sail, exactly what is the proposed itinerary and exactly what did Celebrity tell you?  When are you sailing?  Please give us all the details and maybe we can help make sense of what is going on

 

I was on the Solstice. Seattle-Ketchikan-Juneau-Skagway-Victoria-Seattle early May.

 

Called them well in advance and after an hour on hold the rep told me early disembarkation isn't allowed anymore (they used to allow it for a fee). OK fine, no hard feelings so I booked my (rather expensive) SEA-YVR flight.

 

Mid journey the daily program came to the cabin and it advised that all those who wish to disembark in Victoria should notify Guest Relations / Documentation Officer. I did so, not a problem at all, The only caveat is that all passengers have to leave the ship first and those who remain in Canada could only leave last "due to Canadian customs" which was another load of baloney. There wasn't even an officer who checked for us but I had to see one to get a stamp. Customs officer said they never told Celebrity anything about who can leave when as they don't care.

[Aladdin22]

A TA here in the UK is selling this cruise. It’s obviously a B2B but is it in violation of the PVSA? 

Cruise embarks Vancouver then

Sitka

Tracy Arm Fjord

Juneau

Ketchikan 

Vancouver

Victoria

Astoria, Oregon

San Francisco 

disembark Los Angeles

 

I’m confused so any help would be appreciated 

[abbydancer2003]

5 minutes ago, Aladdin22 said:

A TA here in the UK is selling this cruise. It’s obviously a B2B but is it in violation of the PVSA? 

Cruise embarks Vancouver then

Sitka

Tracy Arm Fjord

Juneau

Ketchikan 

Vancouver

Victoria

Astoria, Oregon

San Francisco 

disembark Los Angeles

 

I’m confused so any help would be appreciated 

It should be fine, since you get on in Canada, and off in the US. 

[Aladdin22]

9 hours ago, abbydancer said:

It should be fine, since you get on in Canada, and off in the US. 

Thanks very much 

[Eight_Paws]

Well -- I had been booked on this BTB pairing (Sep9 and Sep16) and after finding this information, asked my TA to verify.  She called Celebrity brought it to their attention.  Rather than send her my options, they just cancelled the second cruise (which is the one I would have preferred to keep!!)   

 

And they acted like they were doing me a FAVOR by giving me a refund for that one, when they are at fault for their systems allowing it.

 

What flabbergasts me is -- why wouldn't they have gone through ALL their bookings once this violation was identified, to proactively identify any other customers who would be impacted?  

 

Grrr!   Now trying to figure out what to do for the second part... when I had a been looking a month or so ago, flights from Vancouver to Phoenix were not cheap...  😞

 

Lisa