Solstice B2B problem with Jones Act?

[TXranchgal]

We are booked on a B2B September 9, 2022 and Spptember 16th on the SolsticeI have been trying to get information about this B2B booking since last week. 

We have been told that this b2b violates the Jones Act.

I have called Celebrity every day with no response except "there is no problem".   

 

We are now past final payment (which we made) and nobody is communicating with us about a potential problem.  

Does anybody have a contact that might give us a straight answer as to what is happening to our b2b cruise on the Solstice????

 

 

[AbbyCruiser45]

Who is telling you that it violates Jones Act? I'd be partial to believe Celebrity, I'm sure they do B2Bs all the time in Alaska. 

[Fly and Sail]

It doesn't violate anything. These itineraries are being treated as totally separate reservations, hence why it's mandatory for X to escort you off the ship and the (if you so wish) let you walk right back on. But you have to get off which clears the legal path in terms of customs, Jones Act etc.

[TXranchgal]

This is a B2b sailing Alaska and then the California Coastal - ending in LA.

 

[TXranchgal]

Just talked to Customer Relations - They said that our cruise was now "tagged" as a violation.  I don't know who to believe...   We are stopping in Victoria BC on both cruises.   

 

 

[lovecruzin]

While it is 2 separate itineraries. I believe it is consided a violation of the PVSA because you are cruising Seattle to LA. I think someone on our 9/16 roll call had to cancel for this reason.

 

As a side note, years ago we wanted to cruise San Diego to Vancouver and Vancouver to Seattle. It was deemed a violation. 

[gerelmx]

41 minutes ago, TXranchgal said:

We are booked on a B2B September 9, 2022 and Spptember 16th on the SolsticeI have been trying to get information about this B2B booking since last week. 

We have been told that this b2b violates the Jones Act.

I have called Celebrity every day with no response except "there is no problem".   

 

We are now past final payment (which we made) and nobody is communicating with us about a potential problem.  

Does anybody have a contact that might give us a straight answer as to what is happening to our b2b cruise on the Solstice????

 

 

 

You start and end in a USA port, that violates the PVSA. You have one option to avoid it ; disembark in Vancouver at the end of the 1st cruise and embark  for the 2nd cruise in Victoria (next day), you will need to talk with Celebrity to make this possible.

Edited June 20, 2022 by gerelmx

[lovecruzin]

11 minutes ago, gerelmx said:

 

You start and end in a USA port, Vancouver and Victoria are not considered distant ports, that violates the PVSA. You have one option to avoid it ; disembark in Vancouver at the end of the 1st cruise and embark  for the 2nd cruise in Victoria (next day), you will need to talk with Celebrity to make this possible.

I remember you went thru something similar pre covid?

[gerelmx]

Just now, lovecruzin said:

I remember you went thru something similar pre covid?

 

Yes, I was in a B2B2B Vancouver-Hawaii-Vancouver-LA, X don't take in account my 1st leg, X say you are starting in Honolulu and ending in LA, they offer the option to disembark in Vancouver and embark next day in Victoria, I fight I'm starting in Vancouver and ending in LA, LLP help me and solve the problem also she give us $200 OBC

[Chrissi3010]

Sorry for the question, but what is the Jones Act and how does it effect cruises?

[SusieV]

We had originally wanted to book an Alaskan week on Solstice, followed by B2B on the Millennium (before the ship redeployment) and there was some discussion between Celebrity and our TA about that and if it was a legal itinerary. The consensus was that since we changed ships, it would have been legal, but it had been enough hassle that we decided just to book Sept 16 and Sept 22 on Millennium instead.

 

When the ships redeployed, I was so grateful we hadn't booked that week on Solstice because then it would indeed have become a PVSA violation.

[Mark_K]

Just now, Chrissi3010 said:

Sorry for the question, but what is the Jones Act and how does it effect cruises?

If doesn’t, it relates to transporting cargo from one US port to another.  People often get it mixed up with the Passenger Vessel Service Act which relates to transporting people from one US port to another.

[wrk2cruise]

And this B2B itinerary does violate the PSVA unless the workaround can be negotiated with Celebrity.   Of course that may not be possible in the post covid time since they are not allowing any downlining as far as I know.

[gerelmx]

48 minutes ago, TXranchgal said:

Just talked to Customer Relations - They said that our cruise was now "tagged" as a violation.  I don't know who to believe...   We are stopping in Victoria BC on both cruises.  

 

The 1st cruise is legal because it's a Seattle RT and touch a foreign port, but the B2B violates the PSVA because BC Ports (Vancouver and Victoria) aren't a distant foreign port.

 

Don't know if post Covid Celebrity will allow you to disembark in Vancouver and embark in Victoria next day, You have nothing to lose by asking.

Edited June 20, 2022 by gerelmx

[cruisestitch]

53 minutes ago, Fly and Sail said:

It doesn't violate anything. These itineraries are being treated as totally separate reservations, hence why it's mandatory for X to escort you off the ship and the (if you so wish) let you walk right back on. But you have to get off which clears the legal path in terms of customs, Jones Act etc.

Separate reservations does not make it legal.  If you are on the same ship, that’s the issue.

[TXranchgal]

26 minutes ago, gerelmx said:

 

Yes, I was in a B2B2B Vancouver-Hawaii-Vancouver-LA, X don't take in account my 1st leg, X say you are starting in Honolulu and ending in LA, they offer the option to disembark in Vancouver and embark next day in Victoria, I fight I'm starting in Vancouver and ending in LA, LLP help me and solve the problem also she give us $200 OBC

How do I get in touch with LLP to try to make this work?

[gerelmx]

Just now, TXranchgal said:

How do I get in touch with LLP to try to make this work?

 

LLP won't help you because it's illegal, to avoid the violation you need to disembark in Vancouver and board again next day in Victoria, as I mention don't know if Celebrity will allow that be possible post-covid, in the past many do that to avoid the violation

[cruisestitch]

She can’t change the law.  If you start in one US city and end in a different one you MUST visit a DISTANT foreign port.  No port in Canada is a distant foreign port.

[TXranchgal]

OK - I will attempt to make this work.   I have still not been notified "officially" from Celebrity.  I discovered this potential problem on the Cruise Critic Roll Call forum.....  Thank heaven for fellow cruisers who guide those who have issues....   

[wrk2cruise]

How did you book?   If via a TA or CVP they should be handling including escalation to resolutions or whomever.   Otherwise I suspect you need to be making your case through the CelebrityEngagementCenter@celebrity.com to be allowed the workaround to disembark and embark the next day in Victoria if this is acceptable.   Keep records of all escalation and when you hit the brick wall you can make one final attempt to her office.

 

If disembarking and embarking the next day is not acceptable then there is no reason to escalate as it is not legal and nobody will approve.

 

Chief Executive
Lisa Lutoff-Perlo
President and Chief Executive Officer
1050 Caribbean Way
Miami, FL 33132
lLutoff-Perlo@celebritycruises.com

[verizon]

I think it"s not a violation of Jones Act.

I remember years ago there was a B2B from Hawaii to Vancouver and end up in Seattle.

Edited June 20, 2022 by verizon

[gerelmx]

10 minutes ago, TXranchgal said:

OK - I will attempt to make this work.   I have still not been notified "officially" from Celebrity.  I discovered this potential problem on the Cruise Critic Roll Call forum.....  Thank heaven for fellow cruisers who guide those who have issues....   

 

See post #20, X is making possible to avoid the PSVA violation

[cruisestitch]

28 minutes ago, verizon said:

I think it"s not a violation of Jones Act.

I remember years ago there was a B2B from Hawaii to Vancouver and end up in Seattle.

Alas it IS a PVSA viol

[Mark_K]

26 minutes ago, cruisestitch said:

Alas it IS a PVSA viol

Maybe it’s both.  PVSA for transporting the people and Jones for transporting their baggage. 😏

[WestLakeGirl]

1 hour ago, Chrissi3010 said:

Sorry for the question, but what is the Jones Act and how does it effect cruises?

There are two laws on the US books. The Jones act, which deals with cargo, and the PVSA which deals with passengers. Many people who are to know better including Travel agent often mix them up.

 

The PVSA says that it is fine to make a closed loop cruise which is in and out of the same port as long as you visit any foreign port.

 

In order to take a cruise which starts at one US city and ends in a different US city, you must visit a distant foreign port. And they are very specific as to what places Qualify as a distant foreign port.  There are none in Canada, so you can’t start in Seattle visit Victoria or Vancouver, and end in Hawaii on one ship.
 

 If you change ships, you would be ok.