Carnival Shows - slight rant

[BlerkOne]

16 minutes ago, Colorado Beach Bum said:

But isn’t it part of the whole experience that drives people to cruise?  Most things on the ship don’t generate direct revenue - swimming pools, water parks, mini golf, comedy, piano bar, karaoke, live bands, food, room stewards, etc. but without all of that why would people cruise?

Of course. I'm not advocating getting rid of shows. Most of your examples don't change. I think comedy clubs, piano bar, and karaoke likely all generate more per capita in alcohol sales than the main shows, but don't require set changes and a number of singers and dancers. Costs are lower.

 

Other than an expectation of being fed and a clean stateroom, I don't cruise for any of those. I enjoy being on the water.

[Guest BasicSailor]

On 9/17/2022 at 9:57 AM, jimbo5544 said:

Jersey Boys was good

On a Carnival ship? How did I miss it? 😮

Edited September 20, 2022 by BasicSailor

[Colorado Beach Bum]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

Of course. I'm not advocating getting rid of shows. Most of your examples don't change. I think comedy clubs, piano bar, and karaoke likely all generate more per capita in alcohol sales than the main shows, but don't require set changes and a number of singers and dancers. Costs are lower.

 

Other than an expectation of being fed and a clean stateroom, I don't cruise for any of those. I enjoy being on the water.

Agree that shows probably cost more but with the size of the showrooms I’m sure bar sales still decent.  The great thing about cruising is the diverse and number of different things to do.  Some generate direct income while others attract more people that will spend money on other things all of which keep cruise affordable for many who will come and enjoy a vacation in their unique way. 

[Itried4498]

My sole experience with RCL is the Navigator of the Seas, which is currently homeported in Los Angeles.  The ship does the same 3/4-day itinerary as the Carnival Radiance, although there's an occasional 5-day itinerary, and an increasing number of 7-day itineraries.  The entertainment on the 3/4-day is the same: an ice skating production show (shown four times total - twice on two days) and a single "Showgirls" production show.  We just took a 5-day itinerary, and it added a second showing of the same Showgirls production show.  I'm told that the 7-day does not add additional production shows.  Meanwhile, the Panorama had four full production shows, plus an abbreviated fifth during Welcome Aboard.  The Panorama also had multiple comedians, the Navigator had just one. 

 

The grass isn't always greener...

[ninjacat123]

1 hour ago, BasicSailor said:

On a Carnival ship? How did I miss it? 😮

On another cruiseline😀

[Itried4498]

On 9/16/2022 at 6:08 AM, jsglow said:

Think of it this way.  Lady Gaga at one end and Wayne Newton at the other end do their same show on the Vegas strip every night.  (Yes, I know Gaga has two different shows.)  Only the customers change.  Carnival is simply NOT going to have unique shows on each ship.  Ridiculously expensive and impractical simply to placate the relative handful of super frequent cruisers..

 

That's a poor comparison.  Las Vegas residencies such as Lady Gaga spend millions of dollars on custom staging, sets, sound and lighting; it takes a large number of performances to recoup these costs.  Meanwhile, Carnival designs its shows around existing equipment.  It largely uses imaging and lighting to create it shows -- it could easily cost effectively refresh the line-up more often.

4 hours ago, KyloRen said:

I totally agree with you but would also like to add that I hate that so many of the song are oldies. I feel like the majority of people on the boat are my age or even younger (I’m 40) and the focus on stuff like 50s-60s type music while “iconic” is really boring and I’m surprised if it’s anyone else’s style. I remember they had this same music as a kid when I was on cruises. 

 

Gradually changing with the Panorama/Mardi Gras.  Carnival's demo still skews older, so I wouldn't expect them to get go of music aimed at Boomers quite yet...

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, Colorado Beach Bum said:

Agree that shows probably cost more but with the size of the showrooms I’m sure bar sales still decent.  The great thing about cruising is the diverse and number of different things to do.  Some generate direct income while others attract more people that will spend money on other things all of which keep cruise affordable for many who will come and enjoy a vacation in their unique way. 

The square footage of the show lounges is enormous and most of the time they sit empty. Bingo 24x7 might be a better option.

[CruizinSusan70]

On 9/16/2022 at 7:24 AM, ShakyBeef said:

 But now, Playlist is all there is and all there has been for a long time (other than game shows in which passengers are the free entertainment).

Cruise on a real ship like the Mardi Gras and you'll see variety.  Should expect the same on the Celebration and Jubilee.

[CruizinSusan70]

7 hours ago, Itried4498 said:

 The Panorama also had multiple comedians, the Navigator had just one. 

 

The grass isn't always greener...

Carnival excels with comedy.  In February on the Mardi Gras there were well over 50 different comedy shows in 3 different venues over 7 days.  In September they cutback to over 40 shows over 6 days.  The most I've seen on other lines was maybe 8 shows on a newer NCL ship.

[jimbo5544]

8 hours ago, BasicSailor said:

On a Carnival ship? How did I miss it? 😮

NCL Bliss

[ShakyBeef]

24 minutes ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

Cruise on a real ship like the Mardi Gras and you'll see variety.  Should expect the same on the Celebration and Jubilee.

 

No thanks, I don't sail on megaships.  And the ships of Spirit Class (on which I sail) are real ships, thank you very much.  I would argue they're more "real shiplike" than the behemoths you named.  But I digress.  I enjoy the main theatre entertainment on other lines, when I sail them.  When I'm on Carnival, I just avoid the Playlist shows and stick with the comedy club, the Piano Bar, and the live singers/musicians around the ship.

[CruizinSusan70]

1 hour ago, ShakyBeef said:

 

No thanks, I don't sail on megaships.   When I'm on Carnival, I just avoid the Playlist shows and stick with the comedy club, the Piano Bar, and the live singers/musicians around the ship.

The Excel Class ships are the closest examples of what their competitors currently have.  Since you like the comedy club so much, no other ship in the fleet has comedy in three different venues and offers over 40+ shows over a 7 day cruise.  And live music on the Excel Class also exceeds the rest of the fleet.  But mega ships with lots of entertainment options are not your thing and that is your choice, just like the vast majority of the fleet is in my rear view mirror and that's my choice.  That's why they make vanilla and chocolate.

[ShakyBeef]

32 minutes ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

The Excel Class ships are the closest examples of what their competitors currently have.  Since you like the comedy club so much, no other ship in the fleet has comedy in three different venues and offers over 40+ shows over a 7 day cruise.  And live music on the Excel Class also exceeds the rest of the fleet.  But mega ships with lots of entertainment options are not your thing and that is your choice, just like the vast majority of the fleet is in my rear view mirror and that's my choice.  That's why they make vanilla and chocolate.

 

Carnival Mardi Gras 

5282 PAX 

PAX to Space Ratio: 29

Number of Comedy Clubs (I'll take your word for this): 3

Number of crew to PAX: .330  (Crew: 1745)

 

Carnival Legend

2124 PAX

PAX to Space Ratio: 34 (highest in the Fleet, BTW😉)

Number of Comedy Clubs: 1

Number of crew to PAX: .452  (Crew: 961)

 

Yeah, thanks, I'll stick with my real ships.  And, BTW, I never said I "like the comedy club so much".  I just listed it as one of the non-Playlist entertainment venues I "stick with".  There is absolutely nothing about the megaships that will make me choose to sail them.  It seems you're being judgy about my choice of ship, and also trying pretty hard to convince me that yours is better.  I'm fine where I am, thanks. 

 

I agree with your last sentence: "That's why they make vanilla and chocolate."  I prefer Vanilla.   But I feel no need to make slightly snarky, judgy, passive aggressive remarks towards others for preferring Chocolate.  And I'd never suggest that Chocolate is not a real flavour.😉

 

Enjoy your ships, I'll enjoy mine.

Edited September 20, 2022 by ShakyBeef

[ARcruisin2]

19 hours ago, KyloRen said:

I totally agree with you but would also like to add that I hate that so many of the song are oldies. I feel like the majority of people on the boat are my age or even younger (I’m 40) and the focus on stuff like 50s-60s type music while “iconic” is really boring and I’m surprised if it’s anyone else’s style. I remember they had this same music as a kid when I was on cruises. 

I would presume that it could be sold as songs everyone knows.

However, I am betting has more to do with saving $$$ (licensing fees as mentioned above)...since copyrights have probably run out on most of the oldies. 

[Itried4498]

9 hours ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

Cruise on a real ship like the Mardi Gras and you'll see variety.  Should expect the same on the Celebration and Jubilee.

 

The Panorama has the same entertainment program as the Mardi Gras, and the Radiance features two of the four shows.  The Panorama was delivered in 2019, the Mardi Gras in 2020, and the Radiance received a total refurbishment in 2020 that included an overhauled theater.  The Radiance is a weekend cruise ship, so it's not surprising it'd forgo the more advanced (prop heavy) productions.  

 

Given that the production shows rely heavily on the latest graphics/ sound/ lighting, and less on props & set design, I think one can reasonably conclude that the newer variety shows are on the ships with the most modern audio / visual systems.  

 

My bet is that the Celebration will retain two existing productions (my guess: Broadway Beats and Celestial Strings) and introduce two new productions.  It'll be interesting to see what's presented on the three Costa ships.

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Itried4498

[CruizinSusan70]

3 hours ago, Itried4498 said:

 

The Panorama has the same entertainment program as the Mardi Gras, and the Radiance features two of the four shows.  The Panorama was delivered in 2019, the Mardi Gras in 2020, and the Radiance received a total refurbishment in 2020 that included an overhauled theater.  The Radiance is a weekend cruise ship, so it's not surprising it'd forgo the more advanced (prop heavy) productions.  

 

Given that the production shows rely heavily on the latest graphics/ sound/ lighting, and less on props & set design, I think one can reasonably conclude that the newer variety shows are on the ships with the most modern audio / visual systems.  

 

My bet is that the Celebration will retain two existing productions (my guess: Broadway Beats and Celestial Strings) and introduce two new productions.  It'll be interesting to see what's presented on the three Costa ships.

 

Having sailed on the Horizon twice and the Mardi Gras four times, I can tell you that the entertainment options on the MG leave the choices of the Vista Class in the dust.  So the entertainment options are not the same on the two classes of ships.  The main shows from the Vista Class are on the MG, but there are multiple venues that can provide larger production shows simultaneously just like there are simultaneous venues that have PG and R rated comedy shows at the same time and there are more live music venues on the MG as well. The Excel Class is like the Vista Class on steroids. 

 It is a true game changer for the line and in my opinion leaves the rest of the fleet in it's wake.  There are those that love the Spirit class because of the space ratio or the Fantasy Class for personal reasons.  As a stock holder, I am glad that the various classes have their fans, but if the powers that be did not have the forethought to develop the Excel Class, Carnival would be in an even worse position than they are right now.

[CruizinSusan70]

10 hours ago, ShakyBeef said:

 

😉

 

😉

Enjoy your ships, I'll enjoy mine.

That is ship, singular.  Have 5 reservations on the Celebration between January of 2023 and January of 2024.  Enjoy your chocolate on the Spirit Class.  

[ShakyBeef]

1 minute ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

That is ship, singular.  Have 5 reservations on the Celebration between January of 2023 and January of 2024.  Enjoy your chocolate on the Spirit Class.  

 

Good for you. 

And it's vanilla, for me, not chocolate. 

Thanks.

[Itried4498]

41 minutes ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

Having sailed on the Horizon twice and the Mardi Gras four times, I can tell you that the entertainment options on the MG leave the choices of the Vista Class in the dust.  So the entertainment options are not the same on the two classes of ships.  The main shows from the Vista Class are on the MG, but there are multiple venues that can provide larger production shows simultaneously just like there are simultaneous venues that have PG and R rated comedy shows at the same time and there are more live music venues on the MG as well. The Excel Class is like the Vista Class on steroids. 

 It is a true game changer for the line and in my opinion leaves the rest of the fleet in it's wake.  There are those that love the Spirit class because of the space ratio or the Fantasy Class for personal reasons.  As a stock holder, I am glad that the various classes have their fans, but if the powers that be did not have the forethought to develop the Excel Class, Carnival would be in an even worse position than they are right now.

 

That's incorrect.

 

Soulbound, Celestial Strings and Vintage Pop debuted upon the Horizon's inaugural cruise in 2018.

Broadway Beats and Rock Revolution debuted upon the Panorama's inaugural cruise in 2019.

Vintage Moon debuted upon the Mardi Gras' inaugural cruise in 2021.

 

So, three of MG's four shows debuted on the Vista Class.

 

It has nothing to do with the age of the ship, but rather Carnival's lack of desire to update the audio/ visual systems within its theaters.  For example. the new ice skating show (iSkate, Reach For The Stars) on RCL's 22-year-old Navigator of the Seas blows away any production show on Carnival.  Obviously this show would not have been possible had it not been for an extensive renovation of the theater.  

Edited September 20, 2022 by Itried4498

[CruizinSusan70]

47 minutes ago, ShakyBeef said:

 

Good for you. 

And it's vanilla, for me, not chocolate. 

Thanks.

Plain vanilla would be the equivalency to the Spirit Class.  Enjoy your bookings.

[HolySpearit]

On 9/18/2022 at 2:45 PM, staceyglow said:

I recently got off the Royal Princess and the shows were straight up bad. Like, cast members dressed up like the Blues Brothers doing The Robot and The Moonwalk bad. 

…I actually can’t express how much I want to see this 😹

[CruizinSusan70]

20 minutes ago, Itried4498 said:

 

That's incorrect.

 

Soulbound, Celestial Strings and Vintage Pop debuted upon the Horizon's inaugural cruise in 2018.

Broadway Beats and Rock Revolution debuted upon the Panorama's inaugural cruise in 2019.

Vintage Moon debuted upon the Mardi Gras' inaugural cruise in 2021.

 

So, three of MG's four shows debuted on the Vista Class.

 

It has nothing to do with the age of the ship, but rather Carnival's lack of desire to update the audio/ visual systems within its theaters.  For example. the new ice skating show (iSkate, Reach For The Stars) on RCL's 22-year-old Navigator of the Seas blows away any production show on Carnival.  Obviously this show would not have been possible had it not been for an extensive renovation of the theater.  

The fact about where particular shows started has nothing to do with the fact that the Excel Class ships have two showrooms to put on two different shows at the same time.  Just like the MG can have two comedy shows going on simultaneously and they also have more live music venues than anything on the Vista Class.

I never said anything about the age of the ship, the comparison is the size of the ship and because of the size difference, the Excel Class has twice the venues that can do multiple shows simultaneously compared to the Vista Class.  Once I sailed on the Mardi Gras, the rest of the fleet is permanently in my rear view mirror.

Enjoy the Panorama and the Navigator on the west coast.  In 15 months you'll have 3 Excel Class ships east of Galveston to choose from unless you just wish to cruise from Cali, which is totally your option.

[DallasGuy75219]

1 hour ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

As a stock holder, I am glad that the various classes have their fans, but if the powers that be did not have the forethought to develop the Excel Class, Carnival would be in an even worse position than they are right now.

I wouldn't exactly call it forethought.

 

Royal had been eating Carnival's lunch for 10+ years with the Oasis class because Carnival initially refused to compete with Royal and NCL to have the biggest, most innovative ships.  Before the Excel class, every newbuild after the Fantasy class (except the Spirit class) was basically the Destiny class with more decks and/or length added.

 

Only when Carnival finally realized it couldn't compete with Royal and NCL, so had wound up competing on price, did Carnival attempt something innovative with the Excel class.  Except they had missed out on 10+ years of premium pricing compared to their competitors and wound up taking deliveries during/after the biggest operating crisis in modern cruising history. 

[CruizinSusan70]

1 hour ago, DallasGuy75219 said:

I wouldn't exactly call it forethought.

 

Royal had been eating Carnival's lunch for 10+ years with the Oasis class because Carnival initially refused to compete with Royal and NCL to have the biggest, most innovative ships.  Before the Excel class, every newbuild after the Fantasy class (except the Spirit class) was basically the Destiny class with more decks and/or length added.

 

Only when Carnival finally realized it couldn't compete with Royal and NCL, so had wound up competing on price, did Carnival attempt something innovative with the Excel class.  Except they had missed out on 10+ years of premium pricing compared to their competitors and wound up taking deliveries during/after the biggest operating crisis in modern cruising history. 

Maybe forethought is the wrong word, but the bean counters had to realize they were always a follower and never an innovator.  They were getting their lunch handed to them for years by RCI and NCL and even MSC was starting to bypass them with certain builds.  Taking delivery of the Excel Class ships doesn't really come into play that much since all of their entry level competitors have also been taking new ships into their fleets and all have additional ships in their respective pipe lines.  As a matter of fact, all of their competitors have more ships in the pipeline compared to the two Excel ships that Carnival has.

[Colorado Beach Bum]

1 hour ago, DallasGuy75219 said:

Royal had been eating Carnival's lunch for 10+ years

I suppose it depends on your criteria.  From 2010-2019 Carnival blew RCL away in Net Income $20.7 Billion vs $9.7 Billion.