If You Have Covid A Day Before You Cruise

[wowzz]

1 minute ago, Megabear2 said:

No. It's the computer algorithm. You do not get an appeal and no medical people are involved.

Which is why the entire medical screening questionnaire is a total farce.   

[Megabear2]

5 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Which is why the entire medical screening questionnaire is a total farce.   

Indeed but they are using it and people trying to answer truthfully will stumble and fall.

[happy v]

1 minute ago, Megabear2 said:

No. It's the computer algorithm. You do not get an appeal and no medical people are involved.

Thanks 

[Harry Peterson]

1 minute ago, Megabear2 said:

Indeed but they are using it and people trying to answer truthfully will stumble and fall.

But if anyone is tempted to answer dishonestly, and proved later to have done so, the consequences could be substantial.

[wowzz]

7 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

But if anyone is tempted to answer dishonestly, and proved later to have done so, the consequences could be substantial.

The questions are so banal, that even if someone was economical with the truth, how on earth could it be proven at a later date that they lied. A case of totally plausible denial.

[Harry Peterson]

3 minutes ago, wowzz said:

The questions are so banal, that even if someone was economical with the truth, how on earth could it be proven at a later date that they lied. A case of totally plausible denial.

Maybe. It depends entirely on the question, and of course the answer. And whether the counter action makes it worth pursuing. 

[Megabear2]

As this is descending into but you had no guarantees argument, let's stop arguing amongst ourselves and answer a couple of questions to see what we thought we were buying:

 

1. Did you book believing your money was safe and you weren't at risk of losing it in its entirety, ie FCC would be paid to cover you?

 

2. If FCC was always going to disappear did you book expecting your money would be totally covered in some other means, ie your insurer would indemnify you in full for your loss?

 

3. Did you book thinking if you were quarantined on your cruise you would receive FCC for your lost days?

 

4. If FCC for quarantine disappeared did you believe your insurance policy would pay out for your lost days due to confinement? If so did you think it was under the specific covid section or the "normal" confinement to cabin section?

 

5. In light of all the possible connotations and problems associated with the now in place policy are you confident your money and holiday is safe?

 

6. Who has actually read their covid insurance policy in detail to ensure you have the cover P&O are suggesting you will be covered under?

 

7. Who is happy to risk the entire cost of their holiday on a ridiculous health questionnaire that a computer algorithm decides on - are you really happy to answer truthfully and possibly lose every penny you have spent or spends months arguing with an insurance claims company and P&O?

 

8. In light of this new policy and vague referral to your insurers would you now book a cruise under these terms?

 

Terms and conditions aside, I'd say these are pretty reasonable questions a lawyer would ask his opposing P&O lawyer.

 

Anyone want to answer these on here to get a straw poll opinion of what they though?

 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Megabear2

[amajaa]

Surely if you have Covid before you travel it is just the same whether P & O refund you or you claim off your insurance.  Unless of course people have neglected to take out insurance which it clearly states on the P & O website you have to.
 

Having said that I do think people who now test positive or have symptoms just won’t say anything anymore and just board. 

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, Harry Peterson said:

But if anyone is tempted to answer dishonestly, and proved later to have done so, the consequences could be substantial.

How would this mythical passenger be found to have been dishonest?

[terrierjohn]

3 minutes ago, amajaa said:

Surely if you have Covid before you travel it is just the same whether P & O refund you or you claim off your insurance.  Unless of course people have neglected to take out insurance which it clearly states on the P & O website you have to.
 

Having said that I do think people who now test positive or have symptoms just won’t say anything anymore and just board. 

If you travel as a family group and only you test positive, and the rest do not want to travel without you, then you will quite possibly find that only you can claim on your travel insurance.

[davecttr]

I just checked my Axa cover for my Marella cruise in November. The policy says it will cover you if you have covid and have to cancel etc however what it does not mention is proof of illness. Research on how to  a valid PCR test as proof will be needed. Marella drop their version of FCC at the end of October. An alternative is go on holidays that don't need travel insurance. The UK is a big place with lots to see and I don't fancy foreign hotel holidays as a solo traveller though.

[Josy1953]

3 minutes ago, amajaa said:

Having said that I do think people who now test positive or have symptoms just won’t say anything anymore and just board. 

What makes you think that anyone would be so selfish as to deliberately put potentially hundreds of other people at risk of serious illness in even death ?

[davecttr]

1 minute ago, Josy1953 said:

What makes you think that anyone would be so selfish as to deliberately put potentially hundreds of other people at risk of serious illness in even death ?

Sadly there will be many tens of thousands of them out there.

[kalos]

10 minutes ago, davecttr said:

Sadly there will be many tens of thousands of them out there.

Spot on Dave

Watch any of the police TV programs and you will find plenty of people drink/drug driving ,without a licence or even insurance ,driving at high excess speed .Putting other people at risk of serious injury or even death . They do not give a dam about you or me .

Edited September 29, 2022 by kalos

[wowzz]

13 minutes ago, Josy1953 said:

What makes you think that anyone would be so selfish as to deliberately put potentially hundreds of other people at risk of serious illness in even death ?

If you were going to lose £6000 +, of course people will not declare themselves to be ill.

 

[picsa]

20 minutes ago, Josy1953 said:

What makes you think that anyone would be so selfish as to deliberately put potentially hundreds of other people at risk of serious illness in even death ?

As testing before boarding is now optional, then it isn’t a question of people boarding knowing they are positive, but people boarding and truthfully ticking the box ‘I have not tested positive in the last 10 days’ because they haven’t had a positive result because they haven’t tested themselves.

Edited September 29, 2022 by picsa

[Megabear2]

23 minutes ago, amajaa said:

Surely if you have Covid before you travel it is just the same whether P & O refund you or you claim off your insurance.  Unless of course people have neglected to take out insurance which it clearly states on the P & O website you have to.
 

Having said that I do think people who now test positive or have symptoms just won’t say anything anymore and just board. 

That's fine if your insurer guarantees your cover.  It would appear however the cancellation is based on proof you have covid whereas P&O policy is not apparently medically confirmed and is just computer driven.  

 

The case I mentioned previously which made me look at it was a lady who declared she had a cough. She did not have nor ever had covid but was on antibiotics from her doctor for a chest infection.  She was refused boarding. Her sister and family had to travel without her as they hadn't answered the questionnaire with yes anywhere.  The lady appealed and was told by P&O no appeal or discussion allowed as it was for the ship safety.  She is now fighting her insurer who says no cover because she hasn't got a positive covid test.  It continues but is understandably very distressing and difficult.

 

We have three policies here, Allianz through our bank, Post Office for me as all singing and dancing nothing not covered and Avanti for my husband because of winter sports cover with health conditions.  All three say you require proof of a positive covid test to claim under their covid section, including denied boarding.  It also has to be confirmed by a PCR, the observed LFT requested by P&O for my Caribbean fly cruise does not suffice.

[Megabear2]

26 minutes ago, davecttr said:

I just checked my Axa cover for my Marella cruise in November. The policy says it will cover you if you have covid and have to cancel etc however what it does not mention is proof of illness. Research on how to  a valid PCR test as proof will be needed. Marella drop their version of FCC at the end of October. An alternative is go on holidays that don't need travel insurance. The UK is a big place with lots to see and I don't fancy foreign hotel holidays as a solo traveller though.

Dave, I believe the AXA policy is particular to TUI and therefore Marella.  It is a specially negotiated policy for that company and not a "normal" AXA policy.  Therefore I should expect that Marella will have spoken to AXA before changing their terms which of course is the correct thing to do.

 

I've asked Holiday Extras if P&O have done the same with them: stoney silence! Read into that what you may.

[picsa]

1 minute ago, Megabear2 said:

All three say you require proof of a positive covid test to claim under their covid section, including denied boarding.  It also has to be confirmed by a PCR, the observed LFT requested by P&O for my Caribbean fly cruise does not suffice.

My insurance policy (Aviva through HSBC) has no such requirements.

 

As for the health questionnaire, I suspect 99.999% of people approach it in the same way that they answer the security questions about their suitcase when checking in for a flight - they of course say yes and no in the right places otherwise the bag doesn’t travel.

[Megabear2]

11 minutes ago, picsa said:

As testing before boarding is now optional, then it isn’t a question of people boarding knowing they are positive, but people boarding and truthfully ticking the box ‘I have not tested positive in the last 10 days’ because they haven’t had a positive result because they haven’t tested themselves.

It's not optional on the most expensive cruises. If I test positive 48 hours before I fly, I'm into possible £8,200 loss. Admittedly I will have a positive test but it's not a PCR.  I'm thinking of paying extra to get that as my fit to fly rather than the one requested by P&O, at least if the worst happened I'd have a PCR result.

[Megabear2]

8 minutes ago, picsa said:

My insurance policy (Aviva through HSBC) has no such requirements.

 

As for the health questionnaire, I suspect 99.999% of people approach it in the same way that they answer the security questions about their suitcase when checking in for a flight - they of course say yes and no in the right places otherwise the bag doesn’t travel.

Well that's great.  I assume you have checked with them and have their confirmation in writing just to be safe.

 

Your approach to the questionnaire is exactly what's under discussion about how it spreads so quickly.

 

You are on my cruise so at least will have tested by requirement. 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Megabear2

[Harry Peterson]

37 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

How would this mythical passenger be found to have been dishonest?

Who knows, John, but I’d hazard a guess that they’ll be checking any that go down with it within a short time of boarding. It would be outrageous to lie, but people will and in the way that other forms of fraud are detected this might well be too. Substantial sums could be at stake in any negligence claim.

[Harry Peterson]

23 minutes ago, wowzz said:

If you were going to lose £6000 +, of course people will not declare themselves to be ill.

 

Quite. So basically unless compulsory testing is reintroduced passengers are at increased risk of contracting Covid because people will conceal the fact that they have Covid. And that includes many passengers at increased risk of bad outcomes.

[wowzz]

6 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Who knows, John, but I’d hazard a guess that they’ll be checking any that go down with it within a short time of boarding

But, how will anyone on board know that you have it ? If it is the standard "sniffles", no one will be the wiser.

And, as you can test yourself two days prior to embarkation,  it is quite feasible to be negative at the time of testing, but be positive two days into the cruise.

[picsa]

1 minute ago, Harry Peterson said:

Quite. So basically unless compulsory testing is reintroduced passengers are at increased risk of contracting Covid because people will conceal the fact that they have Covid. And that includes many passengers at increased risk of bad outcomes.

If you have optional tests and people don’t opt to test then they are not concealing anything - ‘have you tested positive’ - then ‘no’ is a truthful answer if you have not opted to test.

 

14 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

It's not optional on the most expensive cruises. If I test positive 48 hours before I fly, I'm into possible £8,200 loss. Admittedly I will have a positive test but it's not a PCR.  I'm thinking of paying extra to get that as my fit to fly rather than the one requested by P&O, at least if the worst happened I'd have a PCR result.

 

An as my cruise is a ‘bargain bucket’ cruise then it isn’t required, but is optional. Will I opt to take a test before the cruise - probably not. 

 

12 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Well that's great.  I assume you have checked with them and have their confirmation in writing just to be safe.

 

Your approach to the questionnaire is exactly what's under discussion about how it spreads so quickly.

 

You are on my cruise so at least will have tested by requirement. 

 

No I have not checked with my insurance company because the wording is clear and straightforward.

 

And as for how it is spreading so quickly - we’ll stick a few thousand people into close quarters and irrespective of any measures you take it will spread. But these days with vaccinations and anti-virals, and all the other treatments, then it’s not the same situation as March 2020 for most - and for the few where it is serious, well I am not sure I would be choosing to go into close quarters with a few thousand others.