Why Doesn't HAL Ask For Unique Itinerary Recommendations ?

[mcrcruiser]

Heck ,there are enough well traveled folks on these boards that could give HAL  lists of unique  & interesting itineraries that would  help then sell cabins . My question is why don.t they make it a prize for the mist  interesting & doable itineraries   like a free cruise & or free tips ,drink pkg & wifi   ,ie  ,Seems to me that would stir some excitement  & more bookings 😆

[Mary229]

I guess we could have a sea and space tour, that is, flying up on Space X then sailing from Florida.  It could be the Wild Blue yonder and the Deep Blue sea tour. 😂

[taxmantoo]

I like to believe that a company with 150 years of sailing history would already know what itineraries are the best sellers 🙂 

Edited October 11, 2022 by taxmantoo

[Boatdrill]

The question is asked on the post-cruise surveys. 

Something like "Which ports do you want to go to ?"

 

 

 

 

[mcrcruiser]

We live here in San Diego county  .imo ,HAL could do a partial transit from San diego like they do from Port Everglades  Ft Laiderdale Florida  .There are many more ports in Mexico  south of Puerto Vallarta  yjru could stop like Acapulco where the Cliff divers are located . another cruise which imo would be also packed is a round trip  Alaska ;which would eliminate flying   .These are just the tip of that ice berg doe examples 

 

 When you think that the Pacific Ocean is twice the size of the  Atlantic  ,we have a lot to offer cruisers here  in the California ports   

 

 HAL  imo  needs to differentiate itself  from RCL ,Carnival ,Celebrity  Mexico cruises  alone or just be one of the bunch ? 

 

 

[chengkp75]

6 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

HAL could do a partial transit from San diego like they do from Port Everglades

That would not be real feasible, due to the nature of the canal.  Either they would need to get special permission from the Canal Authority to turn the ship around between the Miraflores and Pedro Miguel locks (and I'm not sure that is feasible), and schedule the two lockings at Miraflores one right after the other, or they would need to transit all the way to the Gatun Lake anchorage, await traffic, and then return down the cut and the two locks.  This second option would be traveling 90% of the canal both ways, and would likely be charged as two transits.

 

6 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

another cruise which imo would be also packed is a round trip  Alaska ;which would eliminate flying

From San Diego to Seattle would add about 3 days each way, without port stops, so you would be talking about a 14 day minimum cruise.  The cruise lines know that there is a different demographic for cruises longer than 7 days, and the market share drops considerably.

 

6 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

When you think that the Pacific Ocean is twice the size of the  Atlantic  ,we have a lot to offer cruisers here  in the California ports 

And, with that increase in size comes an increase in distance between ports, therefore more sailing time, longer cruises (with the diminished demographic) and more fuel costs, so costlier cruises.

 

Are there "do-able" itineraries out there that aren't being done?  Sure.  Can the cruise lines sell enough tickets to make them profitable?  Likely their marketing department has looked at what has shown interest, through focus groups, etc, and have decided they won't make money.

[mcrcruiser]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

That would not be real feasible, due to the nature of the canal.  Either they would need to get special permission from the Canal Authority to turn the ship around between the Miraflores and Pedro Miguel locks (and I'm not sure that is feasible), and schedule the two lockings at Miraflores one right after the other, or they would need to transit all the way to the Gatun Lake anchorage, await traffic, and then return down the cut and the two locks.  This second option would be traveling 90% of the canal both ways, and would likely be charged as two transits.

 

From San Diego to Seattle would add about 3 days each way, without port stops, so you would be talking about a 14 day minimum cruise.  The cruise lines know that there is a different demographic for cruises longer than 7 days, and the market share drops considerably.

 

And, with that increase in size comes an increase in distance between ports, therefore more sailing time, longer cruises (with the diminished demographic) and more fuel costs, so costlier cruises.

 

Are there "do-able" itineraries out there that aren't being done?  Sure.  Can the cruise lines sell enough tickets to make them profitable?  Likely their marketing department has looked at what has shown interest, through focus groups, etc, and have decided they won't make money.

 I respect  your  thoughts here  however ;some time ago we sailed Carnival's Spirit  to a round trip Acapulco  with other Mexican ports in between   Like Zwatineho /Xtapa   Mazanillo  ie  .Those are 3 ports down the Mexican Riviera that cruise ships do not do . So then they don't need to go as far as the Panama Canal ;but ,It is difficult   here to comprehend why there  are   partial panama   canal transits from Ft Lauderdale yet nothing here .what makes that difference ?

 

 Even if it were not cost feasable to do a west coast partial Canal transit  the ships occasionally could do the other Mexican Riviera ports  , So what is the difference between a long Hawaii cruise vs a long Mexican Riviera cruise in days  . Actually , there would be less sea days & more port stops going down the Mexican    Riviera  . 

 

  Just seems to me that we not only sailed the Spirit  as far a Acapulco  but ,we also did deeper Mexican ports further south on Celebrity  Mercury  years back   .There is quire a bit difference in the Mexican Riviera when the ships went further south  .There are more ships on the West Coast of California now & less variety  in  the port stops   for  the Mexican Riviera . Princess ,Carnival ,  Holland ,Celebrity & Royal Caribbean all have ships now doing the regular  Mexican Riviera cruises  .so how does that help  Holland America fill the ships ,especially now with a constricting economy ?

 

Another thing is doesn't HaL rely on us older folks who have more cash & more time to take longer cruises ?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by mcrcruiser

[CruiserBruce]

HAL should hire all their top brass from Cruise Critic. So many experts here.

[mcrcruiser]

23 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

HAL should hire all their top brass from Cruise Critic. So many experts here.

LOL U got that right 

[Sea42]

41 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

so how does that help  Holland America fill the ships ,especially now with a constricting economy ?

My guess would be that HAL (and all of the others) are putting their ships on the itineraries with the highest demand and profitability.

[chengkp75]

44 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

So then they don't need to go as far as the Panama Canal ;but ,It is difficult   here to comprehend why there  are   partial panama   canal transits from Ft Lauderdale yet nothing here .what makes that difference ?

They can make a partial canal transit from the East because the Canal is a bigger draw than the Mexican Riviera.  I know the lines dropped most of the Riviera years ago due to violence in the ports, and even if that has been cleared up, not sure there is a public perception that it has.

 

47 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

Another thing is doesn't HaL rely on us older folks who have more cash & more time to take longer cruises ?

Probably for one or two ships, but their fleet does not exclusively do longer cruises, nor do they want a reputation for higher prices than other lines, so I don't believe they rely entirely on the older demographic.

 

Sure, they could do more Mexican ports, but can they fill the ships on a weekly basis doing this?  I think their marketing department is smarter than both you and I put together on whether this is true or not, and since they don't do it, they have found it's not true.  Just like all the folks looking for a repeal of the PVSA, the cruise lines have stated that they "don't see any benefit to the bottom line" if allowed to do these cruises, so they don't bother.  Carnival started a one way cruise between Puerto Rico and the mainland US after PR got an exemption from PVSA (took 10 years of lobbying), but it only lasted less than two years due to low demand.  There are many proposed itineraries that some might find interesting, but the cruise line is not about interesting, it is about making money, and if interesting doesn't make money, they go elsewhere.

[mcrcruiser]

4 minutes ago, Sea42 said:

My guess would be that HAL (and all of the others) are putting their ships on the itineraries with the highest demand and profitability.

  We just received a e-mail from HAL saying today only a $1 deposit5 secures a cruise  . Imo ,as a marketing person all my life I perceive  that as   a  type of desperation attempt to sell those high priced cruises ;which most people can read through  . Today is far different with many consumers living pay check to pay check in the US  .As higher & higher prices  come rolling along & incomes can not match with 5% raises the extra costs of living today  high is 9 %  + inflation ,then how is it wise to put out ads that don't make any sense  .

 

 I see this ad as a feeble attempt to get some well healed people to bite 

 

 Going forward with higher fuel costs ,food costs  ie  & lower incomes  for the pax  how does selling high end cabins make any sense   . If the economy of scale is for  the main stream cruise lines to fill cabins  then they need to be more realistic in pricing  .JMHO

 

 

[mcrcruiser]

7 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

They can make a partial canal transit from the East because the Canal is a bigger draw than the Mexican Riviera.  I know the lines dropped most of the Riviera years ago due to violence in the ports, and even if that has been cleared up, not sure there is a public perception that it has.

 

Probably for one or two ships, but their fleet does not exclusively do longer cruises, nor do they want a reputation for higher prices than other lines, so I don't believe they rely entirely on the older demographic.

 

Sure, they could do more Mexican ports, but can they fill the ships on a weekly basis doing this?  I think their marketing department is smarter than both you and I put together on whether this is true or not, and since they don't do it, they have found it's not true.  Just like all the folks looking for a repeal of the PVSA, the cruise lines have stated that they "don't see any benefit to the bottom line" if allowed to do these cruises, so they don't bother.  Carnival started a one way cruise between Puerto Rico and the mainland US after PR got an exemption from PVSA (took 10 years of lobbying), but it only lasted less than two years due to low demand.  There are many proposed itineraries that some might find interesting, but the cruise line is not about interesting, it is about making money, and if interesting doesn't make money, they go elsewhere.

I understood from the get go that cruise lines are in this business to make profits ;however ,I can not believe that occasionally   the cruise lines can  change the itineraries to juice up   the  publics interest . The same old becomes the same old   or perhaps there are going to be new cruise lines that will adapt more flexibility into their itineraries coming to the business ,liking to Virgin & Viking

[Sir PMP]

23 minutes ago, Sea42 said:

My guess would be that HAL (and all of the others) are putting their ships on the itineraries with the highest demand and profitability.

Right 5 days to the Bahamas and back.

[mcrcruiser]

3 minutes ago, Sir PMP said:

Right 5 days to the Bahamas and back.

That is great if  you live on the East Coast near  Florida ports  .so just for starters add in the much higher cost of flying today  to get to the embarkation port 

[mcrcruiser]

4 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

That is great if  you live on the East Coast near  Florida ports  .so just for starters add in the much higher cost of flying today  to get to the embarkation port 

Checked recently a R/T on Alaska   airlines to Ft Lauderdale was $1056  for 2 people coach seating 

[richstowe]

34 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I think their marketing department is smarter than both you and I put together on whether this is true or not, and since they don't do it, they have found it's not true. 

I think you're either overestimating their intelligence or insulting us . 😉

Seriously I believe whoever puts together the itineraries is hamstrung by accounting . The push is towards private islands , shorter distances cruises at slower speeds to save on fuel costs . Add to that ports unable to handle today's larger ships . Finally you have passengers who say they want different but only if the ship leaves from a convenient home port and doesn't go anywhere "scary" plus new cruisers to whom each port is new and exciting not ,Oh God, not Nassau again. 

This doesn't forgive the same old same old mindset but it does explain it . 

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by richstowe

[Mary229]

I have been known to disagree with @chengkp75 a time or two but here he has an excellent point.  The complexities of navigation, booking berths complete with onshore support and countless other variables make planning itineraries a chess match only for the masters and those with excellent data bases.  
 

I understand the appeal of asking customers but the marketing nightmare of explaining to them it can’t be done far outweighs any benefit

[DCThunder]

37 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

Checked recently a R/T on Alaska   airlines to Ft Lauderdale was $1056  for 2 people coach seating 

As someone living on the East Coast, I can sincerely say that the Mexican Riviera is one of the last places on earth I would want to go.  So expanded ports of call in Mexico are of no interest to me.  And, BTW, costs of airline flights to San Diego or LAX from the East Coast are just as expensive as for you to go to FLL.

[rodndonna]

11 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I understand the appeal of asking customers but the marketing nightmare of explaining to them it can’t be done far outweighs any benefit

 

We owned a small business for a couple of years many years ago, and before we started someone advised us "think hard before you decide to put in a suggestion box". She was so right, even without one, the amount  spent having to explain to people why their  unsolicited idea was not workable was unending.

 

For alot of customers, If you ask for ideas or preferences (or they just call you up and tell you them) and then they don't see them, the thought is  "Clearly they didn't listen" ...

[mcrcruiser]

10 minutes ago, DCThunder said:

As someone living on the East Coast, I can sincerely say that the Mexican Riviera is one of the last places on earth I would want to go.  So expanded ports of call in Mexico are of no interest to me.  And, BTW, costs of airline flights to San Diego or LAX from the East Coast are just as expensive as for you to go to FLL.

  Yes agreed about the airline costs whether you are on the East or West coast & flying to the opposite coast ;but please don't put down Mexican ports ;as we don't down  the Caribbean ports .all ports have their  charms &  dislikes .We know having 87 cruise history doing the world cruising

[mcrcruiser]

12 minutes ago, rodndonna said:

 

We owned a small business for a couple of years many years ago, and before we started someone advised us "think hard before you decide to put in a suggestion box". She was so right, even without one, the amount  spent having to explain to people why their  unsolicited idea was not workable was unending.

 

For alot of customers, If you ask for ideas or preferences (or they just call you up and tell you them) and then they don't see them, the thought is  "Clearly they didn't listen" ...

Any small business can hardly compare to decisions made by corporate business plans of which the marketing plan is vital to the business plan being successful   . 

[mcrcruiser]

34 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I have been known to disagree with @chengkp75 a time or two but here he has an excellent point.  The complexities of navigation, booking berths complete with onshore support and countless other variables make planning itineraries a chess match only for the masters and those with excellent data bases.  
 

I understand the appeal of asking customers but the marketing nightmare of explaining to them it can’t be done far outweighs any benefit

Come on  there is never a "Marketing Nightmare " . what is important is that any business listen to their customers .I don't mean the ones that ***** & gripe all the time ;but ,when there is concern  over  product  or stale sales  it behoves a good marketing manager to do more market research  before the roof caves in  & part of the research are  consumer groups 

[rodndonna]

6 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

Any small business can hardly compare to decisions made by corporate business plans of which the marketing plan is vital to the business plan being successful   . 

 

Yes - they are a very large global company, and HOPEFULLY they are have marketing folks who focus on more than one just port (where they just so happen to live)

Edited October 12, 2022 by rodndonna

[Mary229]

1 minute ago, mcrcruiser said:

Come on  there is never a "Marketing Nightmare " . what is important is that any business listen to their customers .I don't mean the ones that ***** & gripe all the time ;but ,when there is concern  over  product  or stale sales  it behoves a good marketing manager to do more market research  before the roof caves in  & part of the research are  consumer groups 

30 Years business owner. I am sorry customers don’t understand the logistics and really don’t want to know how the sausage is made.  
 
it is fine to give them a survey of suitable options but just like a lawyer a business person  never asks a question that you don’t already know the answer