Are There Problems on Onward?

[takemewithyou]

4 minutes ago, Nippy Sweetie said:

I entirely agree with @lsnhc. Our 'butler' was a very nice man but really didn't do more than a cabin steward. I don't think Azamara understand what butlers actually are or should do. It was far more than making reservations.

We did complain on our mid cruise survey which triggered a series of visits and phone calls from various 'managers'. I just showed them their printed list of what we could expect from our butler and compared it with what he actually did. I wished I hadn't. It didn't lead to any improvement and only made the poor soul anxious. He was doing his best but can't have had any training. 

Is this the list of the butler’s duties?  This is what I found on the web site:

 

Our butlers are remarkably adept at tending to the details that make you relaxed and happy. Think of your butler as your personal valet, party consultant and planner, wine expert, mixologist, afternoon purveyor of fabulous treats, reservations specialist, and all-purpose support system.

[Baynanno1]

5 hours ago, KevintheIrishDJ said:

What is a good level?

is a 

 

Sounds starting from 80 dB can be harmful and from 110 dB up they can cause discomfort and irreversible damage.

We found in recent years (pre covid) sound levels had increased significantly compared to the enjoyable previous level.

When walking up the stairs to the Living Room and we heard the "music" as we reached deck 8, we turned around and went elsewhere.

We did bring the problem to the attention of several staff in management, but it mostly fell on deaf ears.

Pun absolutely intended!

[Nippy Sweetie]

@takemewithyouno the list we were given was much more specific. Things like, packing and unpacking, pressing clothes, reservations, laundry, hors d'oevres and afternoon tea in the cabin etc. It was a printed list. I wish I'd kept it but I chucked it with the other docs after we came home. As I said, our 'butler' was a nice man but did no more than a cabin steward.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Nippy Sweetie

[takemewithyou]

1 minute ago, Nippy Sweetie said:

@takemewithyouno the list we were given is much more specific. Things like, packing and unpacking, pressing clothes, reservations, laundry, hors d'oevres and afternoon tea in the cabin etc. It was a printed list. I wish I'd kept it but I chucked it with the other docs after we came home. As I said, our 'butler' was a nice man but did no more than a cabin steward.

I remember that list but when I checked the web site, it’s gone!

Sounds like they now have a much more generic description of what the butler does…..interesting.

[uktog]

1 hour ago, takemewithyou said:

Is this the list of the butler’s duties?  This is what I found on the web site:

 

Our butlers are remarkably adept at tending to the details that make you relaxed and happy. Think of your butler as your personal valet, party consultant and planner, wine expert, mixologist, afternoon purveyor of fabulous treats, reservations specialist, and all-purpose support system.

Seriously, we have had many Azamara butlers, all nice people, but the idea that most were wine experts, mixologists, reservations specialists or a support system is not what they are.  Very few of them can "think out of the box"which is what that description implies. And a reservations specialist doesn't just send you to the shore ex desk

 

I too have seen the piece of paper Nippy Sweety refers to.  There may be a picture somewhere I will look

 

UPDATE

 

Although its sideways here is a previous post with the list I have seen before

 

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by uktog

[hamrag]

23 minutes ago, Nippy Sweetie said:

@takemewithyouno the list we were given was much more specific. Things like, packing and unpacking, pressing clothes, reservations, laundry, hors d'oevres and afternoon tea in the cabin etc. It was a printed list. I wish I'd kept it but I chucked it with the other docs after we came home. As I said, our 'butler' was a nice man but did no more than a cabin steward.

I suspect the issue here, as others have alluded to, is training....or the lack of proper focused training. This is also a problem within MSC Yacht Club, post-covid, where butlers once very good are sometimes average or worst.

 

Ultimately, it's a first world problem and we simply do not allow this to unduly impact our cruise experience....we are low maintenance, and roll with it on the whole! The things that do matter to us, we deal with discreetly via appropriate channels and generally to our satisfaction.

[marinaro44]

4 hours ago, takemewithyou said:

Is this the list of the butler’s duties?  This is what I found on the web site:

 

Our butlers are remarkably adept at tending to the details that make you relaxed and happy. Think of your butler as your personal valet, party consultant and planner, wine expert, mixologist, afternoon purveyor of fabulous treats, reservations specialist, and all-purpose support system.

One does wonder just what it is that some here expected from their butlers when they booked their suite.  Brush them off after choosing their outfits and dressing them for dinner?  Hang their clothes up in their closets for them at bedtime?  Press the creases back in their pants overnight?  Cut off the tip and light their cigars, taking the first few puffs to ensure the cigar stays lit? 

 

Interesting that it's always the same crowd that piles on whenever someone raises a complaint, legitimate or not.

[lsnhc]

8 hours ago, Nippy Sweetie said:

@takemewithyouno the list we were given was much more specific. Things like, packing and unpacking, pressing clothes, reservations, laundry, hors d'oevres and afternoon tea in the cabin etc. It was a printed list. I wish I'd kept it but I chucked it with the other docs after we came home. As I said, our 'butler' was a nice man but did no more than a cabin steward.

You are right on the money!  We received that piece of paper detailing what we could expect from the butler - it's still somewhere in the cabin. It was this document vs the reality of what the butler can ACTUALLY do that prompted my initial post. 

Let me be clear - we are very low maintenance and seldom complain about anything when we travel, but when we are given (on paper!) a level of expectations that are not close to being met, I do feel we have a legitimate right to be disappointed 

[Riocca]

I’m at a bit of a loss to know what Butlers won’t do that’s on the list, currently onboard Onward in a CC suite we have an experienced Butler and have no complaints.

All cruise lines we’ve been on in suites have the same line on unpacking and packing but really do you want someone else doing that for you! Laundry and pressing, you have to bag it and list it like any other passengers but it’s the Butler who gets it through the system and returns it to you. They will make reservations for you but you don’t get preferential treatment if the restaurant is fully booked at the time you want then it’s hardly their fault.

Afternoon tea service is different on Onward as Princess got rid of the trolleys but you only have to call the same with canapés you have to ask, that said yesterday our Butler noticed we were in the cabin earlier than normal and popped in with a delicious plate of prawns. 
Butlers look after your food and beverage needs but you have to ask as they’re not mind readers, if you’re expectation is for a personal servant then you’re going to be disappointed it’s a cruise ship not Downton Abbey.

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by Riocca

[Nippy Sweetie]

That's not my point @Riocca. Why bother calling the room stewards for CC suites butlers at all? They are not butlers.

[lsnhc]

And here it is! 

I don't think I have been the victim of unrealistic expectations. It's all spelled out in the "Welcome abord" letter

[Riocca]

4 minutes ago, lsnhc said:

And here it is! 

I don't think I have been the victim of unrealistic expectations. It's all spelled out in the "Welcome abord" letter

There’s nothing on there that’s not available to suite guests, only thing that should be added is that specialty restaurant reservations are subject to availability.

 

7 minutes ago, Nippy Sweetie said:

That's not my point @Riocca. Why bother calling the room stewards for CC suites butlers at all? They are not butlers.

Better than Viking butlers who don’t exist at all.

[uktog]

17 minutes ago, Riocca said:

I’m at a bit of a loss to know what Butlers won’t do that’s on the list, currently onboard Onward in a CC suite we have an experienced Butler and have no complaints.

All cruise lines we’ve been on in suites have the same line on unpacking and packing but really do you want someone else doing that for you! Laundry and pressing, you have to bag it and list it like any other passengers but it’s the Butler who gets it through the system and returns it to you. They will make reservations for you but you don’t get preferential treatment if the restaurant is fully booked at the time you want then it’s hardly their fault.

Afternoon tea service is different on Onward as Princess got rid of the trolleys but you only have to call the same with canapés you have to ask, that said yesterday our Butler noticed we were in the cabin earlier than normal and popped in with a delicious plate of prawns. 
Butlers look after your food and beverage needs but you have to ask as they’re not mind readers, if you’re expectation is for a personal servant then you’re going to be disappointed it’s a cruise ship not Downton Abbey.

 

Two issues currently 

 

1. Post 112 details what the butler would not do. All were pretty reasonable requests met with a “sort it out yourself response” 

2.  The new advertised job description leads you to believe your butler is nearer the downton experience- mixologist, wine consultant (really) travel specialist (the response the guest got was book your excursion yourself). 
 

We only use a butler to get us breakfast or occasionally to change a dinner reservation (never to make it, had bad experiences there where by the time the butler got round to it late the first evening our preferences were gone). We’ve found great butlers and our last experience in late 2019 with a promoted waiter was a contributing reason to why we stopped using suites as our first preference. 
 

Im sure if they trained the new appointees better the standard would return to the past. 

[uktog]

1 minute ago, Riocca said:

There’s nothing on there that’s not available to suite guests, only thing that should be added is that specialty restaurant reservations are subject to availability.

 

Better than Viking butlers who don’t exist at all.

I like that about Viking but that falls into my self sufficient habit. Suite equals bigger room and earliest access to speciality and excursions booking a good model for us.
I see the new Explora is also not planning to have butlers based on their current advertising. 

[Nippy Sweetie]

I prefer Viking anyway. I never wanted or needed a butler but was intrigued by Azamara's inclusion of one for suites. Overpromising and underperforming is never good business sense.

[Grandma Cruising]

Going back to the original point about an upgrade to a CC Suite, surely the main advantage is having a cabin that is 50% bigger than standard cabins, with a nicer and larger bathroom!

[Nippy Sweetie]

Absolutely @Grandma Cruising. We liked the cabin. It would have been better if the whole butler possibility had never been mentioned!

[Grandma Cruising]

8 minutes ago, Nippy Sweetie said:

Absolutely @Grandma Cruising. We liked the cabin. It would have been better if the whole butler possibility had never been mentioned!

For me the whole idea of having a butler would be a disincentive. !

[uktog]

13 minutes ago, Grandma Cruising said:

For me the whole idea of having a butler would be a disincentive. !

I wonder if Azamara will move away from having them for all but the biggest suites.  Fits the trends elsewhere.  I will start a new thread on that to stop this one going off track as the butler issues are not unique to Onward.

[Laganlady02]

6 hours ago, Nippy Sweetie said:

That's not my point @Riocca. Why bother calling the room stewards for CC suites butlers at all? They are not butlers.

I assume you had a room steward as well as a butler.

 

 

 

D

[Nippy Sweetie]

Yes. So not much point in having a butler.

[Laganlady02]

1 minute ago, Nippy Sweetie said:

I'm not and never was intending to cause trouble on this board. I've been a member of the cruise critic forum for more than ten years. I post what my experiences have been both good and bad. I like to read about other people's experiences too.

No need to make personal remarks. 

For reference I was sailing on the same cruise as you. My experience with our butler was totally different from yours. Like everything there is a range of different opinions and our relationships with Azamara butlers over the years has led to an enhanced experience. 

[Zoey]

I'm afraid if I ever splurged on a suite, which I won't, that I might put somebody out of work because I would tell the cruise line that I don't want a butler provided in my fare. I don't even like the connotation of the word 'butler.' But for those who enjoy and appreciate having one, I hope you can get these issues resolved. 

[Host Jazzbeau]

This thread has drifted away from the focus on Onward – and time has healed some of the 'wounds' from the beginning of the thread.  So I'm putting it to pasture.