Using BART. San Francisco

[riffatsea]

Haven't been to San Francisco in ages

First time cruising from there

Planning to use BART to get to hotel near the Powell Street station.  Parc 55

Then thought we could also use it to the Embarcadero the next day for our cruise

Any tips?

Thoughts??

Using pts and cash for hotel so very inexpensive but can change if necessary

Th an ks

[Philob]

You'll need to down load their app (free for now) and use Apple or Google Pay.

 

Or get a physical Clipper Card for an extra $3...supply chain issues...each person must have their own "card".  If you're coming from SFO, only paper tickets are available there, and there's a 50 cent surcharge per trip.

 

https://www.bart.gov/tickets

 

Use the fare calculator and load the appropriate fare, $2.15 now, one-way between Powell & Embarcadero. There's senior and youth discounts.

 

https://www.bart.gov/tickets/calculator

 

Please be prepared to lug your luggage down the stairs. They said the elevators/escalators are fixed and open, but stuff happens all the time to them.

[marden1970]

1 hour ago, riffatsea said:

Haven't been to San Francisco in ages

First time cruising from there

Planning to use BART to get to hotel near the Powell Street station.  Parc 55

Then thought we could also use it to the Embarcadero the next day for our cruise

Any tips?

Thoughts??

Using pts and cash for hotel so very inexpensive but can change if necessary

Th an ks

It might be easier to use the street cars to go from hotel to Embarcadero.  All at street level and you can catch it right across Market Street from the hotel.

[GTJ]

3 hours ago, riffatsea said:

Planning to use BART to get to hotel near the Powell Street station. * * * Then thought we could also use it to the Embarcadero the next day for our cruise

Not a good plan. The BART system was designed to be a regional transportation service, bringing commuters from outlying suburbs into San Francisco; the system has very limited utility for local transportation within the city of San Francisco. Additionally, most cruise vessels board passengers at either pier 27 or pier 35. While both piers are on the Embarcadero, a waterfront boulevard, the Embarcadero station for the BART system is not especially close to either of the two piers, and you would be engaged in good amount of walking between the station and the pier. (Indeed, the distance one would travel on a BART train, from Powell station to Embarcadero station, is about the same distance one would have to walk from Embaradero station to the pier.)

 

A better plan is to use the local public transportation system, the San Francisco Municipal Railway, usually referred to as the "Muni." Most convenient from your hotel would be to board a streetcar on Market Street, at Powell Street and directly about the BART station. Board an "F" car destined for Fisherman's Wharf, and you will be taken directly to the piers. Cars operate about every 12 minutes, and the fare is $3.00 adults, $1.50 seniors (exact fare required).

 

Should you plan to travel elsewhere while in San Francisco, then you might want to consider purchasing a visitor's "passport" for unlimited Muni transportation. However, these "passports" can be rather expensive ($24.00 for a single day's travel), and it is likely to be a better deal to just pay bus or car fares as traveled. One can also optionally buy a fare card (known as "Clipper"), but with the hassle of doing so, especially if in San Francisco only for one day, it is probably easier just paying bus or car fares with cash as needed.

f_market_and_wharves_pdf_map_20210515-1.pdf

[riffatsea]

Thanks for the streetcar advice

Hard to picture taking carryon on a streetcar so we shall see

Can always just use taxi or Lyft

[CruiserBruce]

Interesting getting advice on SF transit from a New Yorker😂.

 

BART to downtown will work fine. However, taking a checked bag on the F Trolly is not allowed. Those are historic trolleys, and very small inside. Even two checked bags is going to be crowded.

 

I would suggest taxi or Uber from your hotel, unless you are fully mobile and able to drag your bags. Walking on the Embarcadero is easy, its a wide, flat walkway. But dragging bags might not be fun if you don't have the mobility.

[GTJ]

5 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

Interesting getting advice on SF transit from a New Yorker😂.

Having lived in the Bay Area for many years, with alma mater in Berkeley, and having been engaged there as a transit planning professional, it is a subject matter I know fairly well. I remember the first trolley "festival" in 1983. The prior year, the PCC streetcars on Market Street had been completely supplanted by the then-new Boeing-Vertol LRVs operating in the upper level of the subway, the cable cars were being shut down for a full rehabilitation, and a new Muni general manager, Harold Geissenheimer, had been brought in from the Chicago Transit Authority. Both Harold and then-mayor Dianne Feinstein strongly supported the establishment of a summer trolley "festival" as a replacement for the shut-down cable cars. Plans coalesced and on June 23, 1983, there was a large inaugural ceremony on the ramp in front of the East Bay Terminal. I remember standing in the crowd, admiring Municipal Railway car no. 1, front windshield open with Mayor Feinstein waving to the cheering crowd. She then actually powered the car herself (under the direction of long-time Muni supervisor Reno Bini, who was standing beside and guiding her; I don't recall seeing Harold then, but I imagine he was also inside car no. 1) from the terminal and out onto Market Street, leading an entire parade of historic cars behind. Thereafter, historic cars began providing regular service, summer only, between the East Bay Terminal and the intersection of 17th Street and Castro Street; I would take many rides on the cars, including not only car no. 1 but also nos. 130 and 178 (both iron monsters), 1040 (last PCC built), 122 (Porto single truck Birney), 228 (Blackpool "boat" car), and 648 (Melbourne Type W2). A few years later both Harold and I returned to the east coast, where we both continued working on public transportation projects (Harold coming to my office on some projects). The "festival" would continue, not always continuously, and ultimately evolve into the present-day "F" car service. Tracks were laid on upper Market Street, between Duboce Avenue (next to the U.S. Mint, where alongside cars would be stored) and Castro Street, and on the Embaradero, between the Ferry Building and Fisherman's Wharf. The East Bay Terminal would be demolished and replaced, leaving the "F" car service in its present day form.

5 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

However, taking a checked bag on the F Trolley is not allowed. Those are historic trolleys, and very small inside. Even two checked bags is going to be crowded.

If this is in the case, then it would be a relatively new rule of which I have never heard. Most of the cars now being operated on the "F" service are the PCC cars, all of which are, in fact, huge. The regular PCC cars are 46-1/2 feet long, and the Magic Carpet PCC cars (designed for two-man operation) are 50-1/2 feet long . . . this compares with 40 feet for a standard transit bus. With double width entrance doors making access and egress from the cars easy, and 2x1 seating providing plenty of circulation within, a rule restricting baggage from being carried on the cars--while continuing to permit baggage on the more constricted buses--would seem to make no sense at all. And with the "F" cars having supplanted the former 8-Market trolley coach service, I would think that the implementation of such a restriction would be deemed an outrage by residents of the Castro. Nor could I find any evidence of such a rule having been formally adopted anywhere on the Muni website. I am unaware of other cities operating PCC-type streetcars, such as Boston and El Paso, having such concerns about carrying baggage on the cars. I would expect to carry my baggage with me on a PCC car, and so I would be curious to know more about the origins and the specific details of such a rule, preferably with a citation thereto. (I have a colleague, also now here in New York, who retired from having operated the historic cars in San Francisco for many years, so when I next see him I may ask if he knows anything about this supposed rule.)

Edited November 22, 2022 by GTJ

[riffatsea]

Thanks for an interesting history lesson

As an x Nyrker who was raised using public transit I would still be reluctant to take luggage onto a bus or a street car

We travel very light with only carryon and maybe a backpack so I guess it might be possible

We shall see when we get there and I can decide how energetic we feel

[GTJ]

4 hours ago, riffatsea said:

As an x Nyrker who was raised using public transit I would still be reluctant to take luggage onto a bus or a street car We travel very light with only carryon and maybe a backpack so I guess it might be possible

It really depends on "how much," and "when." If you're traveling to the vessel between 10:00 a.m. and noon, buses and cars will be least crowded and relatively easy to navigate. Between 4:00 p.m. and 6:00 p.m., everything will be crowded! In comparing travel with baggage on a street car versus a BART train, they are largely the same. But among the differences are that BART stations have elevators from the sidewalk to the underground, whereas streetcars board on the street but do require one to lift the baggage up the steps into the car. When I travel, it is usually with a single piece of baggage on wheels (and if on business, possibly a garment bag as well), which I find to be very maneuverable, and almost always I have no problem using public transport. But with much more baggage it can be a bit cumbersome. The distance between your hotel and the pier is not that far, so a taxi would be relatively inexpensive. Making a decision while there, depending on circumstances then, might be best!

 

It was in San Francisco that I first boarded a cruise liner. It was the vessel Sagafjord in the early 1980s, and I recall it being docked at Pier 35. Those were the good days, prior to security concerns, and so a friend of mine and I were able to go to the pier, and without ticket or even knowing anyone traveling on the vessel we were able to board the vessel and see its facilities. It was the same time period when Delta Line was still operating its vessels around South America, and we visited their offices in San Francisco. They had made the decision to discontinue their passenger operations, so we invited to take all sorts of Delta Line souvenirs from their offices that would have otherwise been discarded. Despite this affinity for cruise liners in San Francisco, the largest vessel I ever departed on from San Francisco remains one of the Golden Gate vessels to Marin.

[KeepCalmBearOn]

Way too much talking.

 

Riff, use Uber. It is 10x simpler.

[riffatsea]

18 hours ago, scottca075 said:

Way too much talking.

 

Riff, use Uber. It is 10x simpler.

Thanks Scott

I thought I read a previous post of yours where you described using BART from Oakland to the Embarcadero which made me think we could do the same from San Francisco

I agree that taxi/uber/lyft

is the easiest

[KeepCalmBearOn]

2 minutes ago, riffatsea said:

Thanks Scott I thought I read a previous post of yours where you described using BART from Oakland to the Embarcadero which made me think we could do the same from San Francisco

I agree that taxi/uber/lyft is the easiest

 

We use BART from Berkeley, actually, but if I was in Union Square or Nob Hill I'd Uber or Lyft.

[wheezedr]

Unlike GTJ who appears to be a good historian but not a current Bay Area resident, my perspective comes from being a San Francisco native who still resides in the Bay Area.  I regularly ride BART both to the city for activities as well as to both SFO and OAK.  We have taken it for cruises on multiple occasions.  It will be fine for your SFO to the hotel jaunt.  It serves no purpose for travel within the city itself. That is best served by Muni.  However, do not use the F-line to get to the cruise port.  It currently runs a variety of historic trollies and they do not do well with luggage.  When we cruise we take BART to the Embarcadero station and then walk a flat mile to pier 27.  In your case, departing from the Parc55 it would be much better to go the Uber/Lyft route, or a taxi.

[GTJ]

20 hours ago, wheezedr said:

[BART] serves no purpose for travel within the city itself. That is best served by Muni. However, do not use the F-line to get to the cruise port. It currently runs a variety of historic trollies and they do not do well with luggage.

A very good perspective of San Francisco, and my quibbles are very minor. It is not that BART has no purpose whatsoever for local travel within the City, but only very limited purpose. (1) Travel to very specific and narrow neighborhoods (i.e., the Mission, Glen Park, Balboa Park) might be facilitated with BART (much as travel to other very specific neighborhoods might be facilitated with Golden Gate Transit), but otherwise and more generally the Muni is the go-to service provider for San Francisco. (2) The ability to travel with baggage on public transit is generally not an absolute yes-or-no, but is a continuum that depends on, among other things, type of vehicle and time of day. As to types of vehicles, a rail car with level boarding (e.g., BART, Muni Metro) is easiest for boarding and alighting, a rail car with steps (e.g., historic PCC car, Caltrain), and buses (even if low-floor) can be more cumbersome, while most cable cars are virtually impossible to travel upon with baggage because of both steps, exceptional crowding, and limited room for circulation. But the ability to travel with baggage on public transportation is really best judged by each individual and by asking, are you travel with baggage on your hometown public transportation system? In my case, I routinely do so, both at home and while traveling elsewhere, and I would not think twice about traveling by streetcar with my baggage . . . but that's me and it may not be the same for you.

Edited November 24, 2022 by GTJ

[oakridger]

With luggage I would use Lyft/Uber or taxi for sure!  Much easier, quicker and direct.  Not much cost either. Having ridden BART to work and for play since 1977 I no longer use it.  For me it's scary due to some really sketchy people on board the last several times I've used it. Too bad, because now I have the senior Clipper card and it's really cheap.  I'd still opt for a car now.

 

Have a great cruise!

 

~Nancy 

[disneyochem]

I would just Uber/taxi in the morning to the port just for the convenience.  In my opinion, it’s not worth the few dollars you save by using public transportation.

 

We either take Amtrak or BART into the City when we cruise.  Either way, we just walk along the Embarcadero to the ship.  We love the walk but we also traveling light—a backpack and carryon for each of us!

[ATSEAMYLIFE]

On 11/22/2022 at 1:55 PM, scottca075 said:

Way too much talking.

 

Riff, use Uber. It is 10x simpler.

 Agreed, I wouldn't do any public transit in SF with luggage.  Uber is cheap, clean, safe, and efficient.  

[Times Prince]

On 11/23/2022 at 6:14 PM, wheezedr said:

Unlike GTJ who appears to be a good historian but not a current Bay Area resident, my perspective comes from being a San Francisco native who still resides in the Bay Area.  I regularly ride BART both to the city for activities as well as to both SFO and OAK.  We have taken it for cruises on multiple occasions.  It will be fine for your SFO to the hotel jaunt.  It serves no purpose for travel within the city itself. That is best served by Muni.  However, do not use the F-line to get to the cruise port.  It currently runs a variety of historic trollies and they do not do well with luggage.  When we cruise we take BART to the Embarcadero station and then walk a flat mile to pier 27.  In your case, departing from the Parc55 it would be much better to go the Uber/Lyft route, or a taxi.

 We are arriving in SF, pier 27 at the end of our cruise.   What is the alternative to the F line going down the Embarcadero to the BART station?  I didn't see one on the Muni map.

 

[KeepCalmBearOn]

4 hours ago, Times Prince said:

 We are arriving in SF, pier 27 at the end of our cruise.   What is the alternative to the F line going down the Embarcadero to the BART station?  I didn't see one on the Muni map.

 

Call for an Uber.

 

Luggage on BART isn't uncommon since it goes to both OAK and SFO. It is much more unusual and a hassle on Muni.

[GTJ]

13 hours ago, Times Prince said:

 We are arriving in SF, pier 27 at the end of our cruise. What is the alternative to the F line going down the Embarcadero to the BART station? I didn't see one on the Muni map.

When the "F" streetcar line was installed along Market Street and the Embarcadero, it replaced two bus routes (8-Market and 32-Embarcadero). Since then, other overlapping bus routes continue to operate along portions of Market Street, but there are no other overlapping bus routes that continue operating along any substantial portion of the Embarcadero. In other words, there is no alternative Muni service along the Embarcadero, other than the "F" line. If you do not want to ride on a streetcar--for whatever reason--then best to forgo public transportation and find some other means of getting to Market Street (e.g., walk, taxi).

 

(Actually, the above is not entirely true. Since the start of the pandemic, Golden Gate Transit permits passengers to travel within the city of San Francisco. See http://www.goldengate.org/golden-gate-transit-helps-muni-customers-during-service-reduction During weekday morning rush hours only, Golden Gate Transit bus routes 114, 132, 154, and 172, stop on the Embarcadero, just north of Bay Street, not far from the cruise vessel pier, and then continue south on Battery Street south to Market Street and the Montgomery Street BART station. The fare for this service is $5.00. But this is an awkward journey, not available outside the morning rush hours, and much less convenient than the regular streetcar along the Embarcadero. I would not recommend this alternative.)

[Times Prince]

5 hours ago, GTJ said:

When the "F" streetcar line was installed along Market Street and the Embarcadero, it replaced two bus routes (8-Market and 32-Embarcadero). Since then, other overlapping bus routes continue to operate along portions of Market Street, but there are no other overlapping bus routes that continue operating along any substantial portion of the Embarcadero. In other words, there is no alternative Muni service along the Embarcadero, other than the "F" line. If you do not want to ride on a streetcar--for whatever reason--then best to forgo public transportation and find some other means of getting to Market Street (e.g., walk, taxi).

 

(Actually, the above is not entirely true. Since the start of the pandemic, Golden Gate Transit permits passengers to travel within the city of San Francisco. See http://www.goldengate.org/golden-gate-transit-helps-muni-customers-during-service-reduction During weekday morning rush hours only, Golden Gate Transit bus routes 114, 132, 154, and 172, stop on the Embarcadero, just north of Bay Street, not far from the cruise vessel pier, and then continue south on Battery Street south to Market Street and the Montgomery Street BART station. The fare for this service is $5.00. But this is an awkward journey, not available outside the morning rush hours, and much less convenient than the regular streetcar along the Embarcadero. I would not recommend this alternative.)

Thanks.  Seeing as we are over 70 and have luggage in hand, we'll go for other alternatives.