Not Missing What You Never Knew??

[PACD_JG]

After sitting in the lounge sofa? On deck 10 trying to watch Mrs. Harris goes to Paris and having other people’s children screaming while playing ping pong (wish they’d put the balls and paddles away if they are going to have movie nights), the adult-only Valiant Lady docked next to us certainly looked tempting.

[Florida_gal_50]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

You say:

 

 

which is a thinly veiled way of saying that once passengers reach a certain level, they are unwilling to go elsewhere until they are unable to cruise any longer. Fine as far as it goes, and I agree it does seem to be the case based on what posters say here on this board.

 

But then you also say:

 

 

It seems to me you can't really have it both ways. Once HAL knows they have you coming back to book with them no matter what direction they move in (or what they cut out), they lose any incentive to not "give up on you". In fact, sometimes I have gotten the distinct impression that they'd rather NOT have you (and by "you" I mean long-time cruisers who don't spend as heftily on photos, spa treatments, shore excursions, etc. as those new cruisers "living it up" on week-long cruises).

 

I don't want to get into a debate on the topic, suffice to say that I also have a long familiarity with HAL (3rd generation) but feel that I have less and less desire to sail HAL ships just when I get to the age where I could conceivably consider longer trips.  And although I have tried, I just can't understand the mentality of those who won't seek out other options. I'm just not wired that way.  One has to be somewhat reasonable -- no line is ever going to exactly duplicate HAL or other past favorites. But new favorites can emerge and offer a different but still pleasant experience, unless one is so against change of any sort that they cannot adapt to living in a different era. If I felt as some of this board's posters seem to feel, I would've given up cruising in 1988 when Princess acquired Sitmar Cruise Line!

 

Cruising seems to be an emotional attachment for some. For me, it's less about the emotions, the "memory of things past" or the attachments to specific staff or crew. I'm all about enjoying EACH experience and getting the most from it, and if HAL can't deliver what other lines can for me, then it will not really bother me to stop sailing with HAL.

 

Yeah, let pull out that old nugget about new cruisers spending more.  I highly doubt if that’s true anymore.  I spend a lot on extras on my cruise such as a cabana as the bigger ticket item.  You’d have to buy a lot of shorex, tshirts and photos to add up to the $500 plus for a cabana.  Let’s drop that old stereotype.  You can see on this thread one never hal cruiser is only interested in cheap cruises.  I don’t there will be an onboard spending.

 

As far as not having to keep long time cruises you still need to put in the effort, whether they’ll go elsewhere or not.  That’s such a lame comment. I’m sure hal “thinks” they have me in the bag.  I have cruised many other lines and I will in the future.

[cruisemom42]

1 minute ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

Yeah, let pull out that old nugget about new cruisers spending more.  I highly doubt if that’s true anymore.  I spend a lot on extras on my cruise such as a cabana as the bigger ticket item.  You’d have to buy a lot of shorex, tshirts and photos to add up to the $500 plus for a cabana.  Let’s drop that old stereotype.  You can see on this thread one never hal cruiser is only interested in cheap cruises.  I don’t there will be an onboard spending.

 

As far as not having to keep long time cruises you still need to put in the effort, whether they’ll go elsewhere or not.  That’s such a lame comment. I’m sure hal “thinks” they have me in the bag.  I have cruised many other lines and I will in the future.

 

People can believe what they want but the "big data" doesn't lie. I'm sure you spend a lot on your cruises. 

 

However, it's not about what the "exceptional individual" spends, it's about overall passenger spend -- ALL 2,000+ passengers, not just a few who rent cabanas. Cruise lines have said that new cruisers are more profitable, just as bigger ships are more profitable Why would they lie? 

 

 

[LMaxwell]

4 hours ago, PACD_JG said:

I think HAL is already doing it.  Focus on 7-day cruises at a low price point.  The entertainment is fine - keeps most of the riff raff away.  HAL would do well on being the Target of cruising.

 

I mean...I'm in my 40's.  Taking a 7 day cruise in 2 weeks, at a reasonable price point. The entertainment on my first HAL cruise was severely lacking; hoping for a noticeable upgrade this time. I don't need constant PARTIES and announcements about FUN - but seriously, a dancing/deck party or even a half decent stage show would be welcome, maybe a duo playing acoustic music by the pool for an hour?? I found the entertainment geared to 60+ and very minimal at that. Someone from HAL may want to try out a Celebrity cruise if they want to see how to attract 40-50 year olds. 

 

We cruise 5 or 6 times a year; often booking multiple cabins. Became brand agnostic a few years ago and trying them all now.  Think we have pretty much moved on from Carnival/Royal Caribbean/NCL. Close enough to Diamond Plus on Royal so won't say never again. Not looking for a butler/concierge experience.  Just like the more refined, not IN YOUR FACE, service. I like not standing in lines for everything all the time. I like that there's not a lot of little venues for 6000 people; but instead spacious lounges and bars for significantly less people.  Target is probably a good descriptor. Or like an Acura or Infiniti; attainable, premium trimmed versions of regular mass market cars and nicer service experiences; but not truly expensive, aspirational, luxury brands.  Works for me. 

 

If HAL reads these: Nothing about entertainment for anyone born after 1975 includes Sweet Caroline. 

[cruisemom42]

2 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

If HAL reads these: Nothing about entertainment for anyone born after 1975 includes Sweet Caroline. 

 

LOL.  I recently went looking for a playlist for BB Kings on HAL. I do realize that they have additional songs in their repertoire, but not one song on the "core" list I found was from the era when I, like most people, form their musical attachments -- e.g., when we are roughly in the age group from middle school through early 20s. Most were from the 1960s and early 1970s. 

 

Not that this in itself is terrible. Fun for a night. Don't want to hear it every night though...

 

Celebrity, on the other hand, is routinely giving us songs from the 80s, 90s and early 2000's -- not just in their dance club but in performance shows and lounges.

 

[LMaxwell]

59 minutes ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

Yeah, let pull out that old nugget about new cruisers spending more.  I highly doubt if that’s true anymore.  I spend a lot on extras on my cruise such as a cabana as the bigger ticket item.  You’d have to buy a lot of shorex, tshirts and photos to add up to the $500 plus for a cabana.  Let’s drop that old stereotype.  You can see on this thread one never hal cruiser is only interested in cheap cruises.  I don’t there will be an onboard spending.

 

As far as not having to keep long time cruises you still need to put in the effort, whether they’ll go elsewhere or not.  That’s such a lame comment. I’m sure hal “thinks” they have me in the bag.  I have cruised many other lines and I will in the future.

 

I'm 40+ cruises in, not sure I'd call myself a new cruiser, but new to HAL. And in the younger demographic for the cruise line.  I spend plenty. As you indicate, you spend money on something you find value in (cabana). I don't find that to be a valuable spend for me. But Shorex for 4 people, a specialty dinner for 4, drinks, etc. it all adds up.  Even a relatively unexciting caribbean Shorex for 4 can easily be closing in on that $500. I don't splash out on suites or spa, but that's my choice, just like it's yours to get a Cabana. 

 

Royal Caribbean may have thought they had me in the bag as well; but they've raised their prices just as fast as they are reducing their services and offerings. Why stay? For the Diamond perks? They're fine, and have a real value, but it doesn't make up for the degradation of the onboard experience.  So now as one generation finds that the premium (Celebrity, HAL, Princess) lines are degrading their product, the next generation comes in and says wow, this is so much better than what I'm used to (Carnival/NCL/Royal).  

 

It's no surprise that once one cruise line starts cutting services, adding fees, or building ships with less and less space per passenger, that they all quickly mirror each other. 

 

When I originally joined CC I thought the intent was for cruisers to share travel and money saving tips; not throw shade hourly at those that manage to do just that.  Whoever is on a ship with you, rest assured someone is spending a lot more, and someone is spending a lot less; and there's zero reason for your to care about it. 

[LMaxwell]

9 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

LOL.  I recently went looking for a playlist for BB Kings on HAL. I do realize that they have additional songs in their repertoire, but not one song on the "core" list I found was from the era when I, like most people, form their musical attachments -- e.g., when we are roughly in the age group from middle school through early 20s. Most were from the 1960s and early 1970s. 

 

Not that this in itself is terrible. Fun for a night. Don't want to hear it every night though...

 

Celebrity, on the other hand, is routinely giving us songs from the 80s, 90s and early 2000's -- not just in their dance club but in performance shows and lounges.

 

Celebrity uses live musicians all over the ship throughout the day.  HAL limits it to evening hours in music walk/using some of those acts in  theater shows.  

 

I was hoping they'd use the BB Kings band to do rock Karaoke or something; first time I have ever been on a cruise that didn't have Karaoke.  No silent disco. No deck party. No live musicians around dinner time. No music in dining room (although that seems to have died off everywhere). Piped in music near the pool (I did hear 80's/90's music piped in).  A lot of loyalists act like we're asking for hairy chest belly flop contests or some club thumping noise until 3am; not at all.  Just a little more vibrancy, variety, and relatability in the content. It just adds to the premium feel. An indicator of "where the money went". 

 

I did really enjoy the lectures on board; but seems they are common across the ships and there are only 3 or 4 of them so if you've seen it...it will be the same the next time too. 

 

I would be game for a "dinner show" of some type, a murder mystery or "lounge singer" act with dinner service.  I've had that on other cruise lines and enjoyed blending the dining and entertainment for the vening. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by LMaxwell

[Laminator]

33 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

 

I'm 40+ cruises in, not sure I'd call myself a new cruiser, but new to HAL. And in the younger demographic for the cruise line.  I spend plenty. As you indicate, you spend money on something you find value in (cabana). I don't find that to be a valuable spend for me. But Shorex for 4 people, a specialty dinner for 4, drinks, etc. it all adds up.  Even a relatively unexciting caribbean Shorex for 4 can easily be closing in on that $500. I don't splash out on suites or spa, but that's my choice, just like it's yours to get a Cabana. 

 

Royal Caribbean may have thought they had me in the bag as well; but they've raised their prices just as fast as they are reducing their services and offerings. Why stay? For the Diamond perks? They're fine, and have a real value, but it doesn't make up for the degradation of the onboard experience.  So now as one generation finds that the premium (Celebrity, HAL, Princess) lines are degrading their product, the next generation comes in and says wow, this is so much better than what I'm used to (Carnival/NCL/Royal).  

 

It's no surprise that once one cruise line starts cutting services, adding fees, or building ships with less and less space per passenger, that they all quickly mirror each other. 

 

When I originally joined CC I thought the intent was for cruisers to share travel and money saving tips; not throw shade hourly at those that manage to do just that.  Whoever is on a ship with you, rest assured someone is spending a lot more, and someone is spending a lot less; and there's zero reason for your to care about it. 

We were on a 7 day Norway Fjords cruise last June with our friends and their family members. 9 of us total. My bar bill was over $500 3 of the 7 days. And 4 of us had free drinks in the casino. The days it wasn't over $500 my friends bar bill was. Then you can add on the excursions and spa treatments. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Laminator

[mudscraper]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

LOL.  I recently went looking for a playlist for BB Kings on HAL. I do realize that they have additional songs in their repertoire, but not one song on the "core" list I found was from the era when I, like most people, form their musical attachments -- e.g., when we are roughly in the age group from middle school through early 20s. Most were from the 1960s and early 1970s. 

 

Not that this in itself is terrible. Fun for a night. Don't want to hear it every night though...

 

Celebrity, on the other hand, is routinely giving us songs from the 80s, 90s and early 2000's -- not just in their dance club but in performance shows and lounges.

 

Believe it or not last week on the Rotterdam the BB King group did sing Sweet Caroline by request.

[LMaxwell]

52 minutes ago, mudscraper said:

Believe it or not last week on the Rotterdam the BB King group did sing Sweet Caroline by request.

 

That song must get played every week; maybe every day, whether requested or not.  

[Mary229]

9 hours ago, Balsam12 said:

https://www.cruisecritic.com.au/articles.cfm?ID=811

 

Cruise ships will enlist assistance from local military if required.

 

You've seen too many movies. Guns are not needed on cruise ships.

 

I can see it now... "Pilot boarding cruise ship shot by passenger who thought he was a pirate".

 

 

I was on a HAL ship under escort in Central America.  I have also been on ships in Mexico under heavy local police guard - with guns, big guns, big apparent guns.   Don’t be naive.  

[Balsam12]

4 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I was on a HAL ship under escort in Central America.  I have also been on ships in Mexico under heavy local police guard - with guns, big guns, big apparent guns.   Don’t be naive.  

Yes... local authorities/military with guns. I have no issues or concerns about that.

My concern is the mere thought of passengers being able to have guns.

[Mary229]

Just now, Balsam12 said:

Yes... local authorities/military with guns. I have no issues or concerns about that.

My concern is the mere thought of passengers being able to have guns.

I clearly said that guns were banned for passengers, officers and crew.  My original question which I clarified for you was about ship security which, again, you took issue with.  I research my travels and I have no intentions of putting myself in harm’s way without proper security and due diligence. Perhaps you are younger than me but I recall the Achille Lauro incident vividly as my parents had sailed her only a year or so prior.

I to allay your prejudices even though I am from Texas I don’t own, have never owned a gun, nor do I intend to own a gun.

[ski ww]

We cruise for the itinerary. We enjoy interesting guest speakers. Did the big party ships when we were younger, partied until the sun came up. Cruised four other lines always came back to HAL, it feels comfortable. Yes some things changed, not always for the best, but over all we enjoy our time on board.

[Mary229]

@LMaxwell  I understand exactly what your are saying.  When I was on the short vacation timetable and was sailing one or two weeks at a time I was looking for a different experience.  I was wanting to just get away and relax and maybe take in a few sights.  When I travel with my still working sister, in her 50s, it is still that way.  We really liked Norwegian at the time, Carnival was ok for us because of the convenience of driving to port, I tried Royal and Princess and those were  ok too.  I always wanted to try Celebrity but I have yet to find an itinerary that fits my list.  Those are all great lines for short Caribbean cruises, had wonderful entertainment and good food.
 

now I sail exclusively for itineraries and as a career road warrior I just am tired of packing and unpacking constantly so for us it is 20+ days or nothing, preferably over 30 days.  HAL does very well in that niche.  

[Florida_gal_50]

8 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

People can believe what they want but the "big data" doesn't lie. I'm sure you spend a lot on your cruises. 

 

However, it's not about what the "exceptional individual" spends, it's about overall passenger spend -- ALL 2,000+ passengers, not just a few who rent cabanas. Cruise lines have said that new cruisers are more profitable, just as bigger ships are more profitable Why would they lie? 

 

 

But how old is that data?  Is there any new data since the start up?  I often see people say when I last cruised before Covid xxxx. Well xxxx is probably not relevant any more.  There appears to be a lot of new cruisers on this sailing.  The shops have not been packed, I’ve yet to see a single person in the photo gallery and the pay extra restaurants have not been as booked up this week as they were last week.  I eat almost exclusively in them and I see 90 percent older clientele in them.  While this doesn’t tell the entire story I think it’s telling.  At least more telling then someone telling what cruising  when they were last on a ship 5 years ago.

[Florida_gal_50]

8 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

 

I'm 40+ cruises in, not sure I'd call myself a new cruiser, but new to HAL. And in the younger demographic for the cruise line.  I spend plenty. As you indicate, you spend money on something you find value in (cabana). I don't find that to be a valuable spend for me. But Shorex for 4 people, a specialty dinner for 4, drinks, etc. it all adds up.  Even a relatively unexciting caribbean Shorex for 4 can easily be closing in on that $500. I don't splash out on suites or spa, but that's my choice, just like it's yours to get a Cabana. 

 

Royal Caribbean may have thought they had me in the bag as well; but they've raised their prices just as fast as they are reducing their services and offerings. Why stay? For the Diamond perks? They're fine, and have a real value, but it doesn't make up for the degradation of the onboard experience.  So now as one generation finds that the premium (Celebrity, HAL, Princess) lines are degrading their product, the next generation comes in and says wow, this is so much better than what I'm used to (Carnival/NCL/Royal).  

 

It's no surprise that once one cruise line starts cutting services, adding fees, or building ships with less and less space per passenger, that they all quickly mirror each other. 

 

When I originally joined CC I thought the intent was for cruisers to share travel and money saving tips; not throw shade hourly at those that manage to do just that.  Whoever is on a ship with you, rest assured someone is spending a lot more, and someone is spending a lot less; and there's zero reason for your to care about it. 

And yet you are constantly throwing shade.  Clearly that’s ok.  When someone throws out what i feel is old information I’m going to correct it as I see it. The cabana I booked is one example.  I also buy drinks, shorex etc. I’m sharing information just as you are.  Just because it doesn’t fit your narrative doesn’t make it wrong.

[Florida_gal_50]

5 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

 

That song must get played every week; maybe every day, whether requested or not.  

Of course it does.  Hal has a certain playlist approved by Seattle.  They don’t play what they feel like.

[Sir PMP]

16 hours ago, PACD_JG said:

The good old days and the evolving HAL experience geared to a younger clientele is a frequent topic.  But one thing I notice that is rarely said…maybe HAL did an analysis and determined that the 70 year olds that love HAL is a short-term investment.  After all, most of the old schoolers will soon be dead and therefore spending zero.  And one only has to read the boards to know that with a few exceptions, most of the loyalists are too cheap to switch brands now.  So why not lure the 40-50 year olds?

Cheap?

[Sir PMP]

5 minutes ago, Sir PMP said:

Cheap?

[ski ww]

1 minute ago, Sir PMP said:

Pirates, anti boarding pre cautions.

[Balsam12]

2 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I clearly said that guns were banned for passengers, officers and crew.  My original question which I clarified for you was about ship security which, again, you took issue with.  I research my travels and I have no intentions of putting myself in harm’s way without proper security and due diligence. Perhaps you are younger than me but I recall the Achille Lauro incident vividly as my parents had sailed her only a year or so prior.

I to allay your prejudices even though I am from Texas I don’t own, have never owned a gun, nor do I intend to own a gun.

Apologies if I misinterpreted your post.

I read:

"Actually I asked a captain once and he said no guns of any kind are allowed on ship and that ban covers crew, officers and passengers.  I asked twice to be sure I heard correctly."

I thought you did not believe that guns were not permitted, and therefore had to ask twice to clarify the answer.

From your subsequent posts, I now gather I was incorrect. It actually appears we have the same view.

Peace and Happy Cruising 

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

18 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

Nothing is ever allowed to change...

What has not changed in Life ??

[CruiserBruce]

25 minutes ago, Gail & Marty sailing away said:

What has not changed in Life ??

Great point...I was being sarcastic. The point of this thread is that nothing is ever allowed to change.

[REOVA]

1 hour ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

 Hal has a certain playlist approved by Seattle.  They don’t play what they feel like.

Yes. Herein lies one problem. The bands can only play a certain list of songs. This month on Rotterdam the Rolling Stone band musicians were excellent. They stated they have a list of 50- 100 songs to play. With 3 - 45 min sets each night, they played the same songs each night which got tiring after 4th night. We didn't sit for piano players in Billboard but passengers told us not only did they play same songs, but they spoke the same script in between. Just some minor changes to the program can make a better experience. I don't think most of us want major changes or return "back to the way it was",  but a few tweaks here and there will help.