Missed Cruise due to AA Flight Delay from PHX 9/22/22

[Babr]

https://affinitytravelcert.com/document/pdfs/NCL_Platinum_TX_COI_7_21.pdf

 

Looks like the claim was paid under Trip Delay. $500 is the maximum amount for additional expenses including return air. Failure to make the ship on time is not a covered reason for Trip Cancellation or Trip Interruption.

 

At the risk of sounding insensitive, it is vital to read and understand what a policy covers.

[DCGuy64]

10 hours ago, dolfan1980 said:

Do you have any credit card insurance that would cover anything?  Taking the last flight in for a cruise you invested $4k in without any back up plan is unfortunately a hard lesson to learn.   You should have left a day earlier or at least that morning.

I agree with this. I truly feel bad for the OP, I mean that sincerely. If he set up a *****, I'd donate $100 or maybe more. I just can't even imagine the heartbreak, what a terrible turn of events. And all the while the OP was in constant communication with NCL, so it's not like he didn't do his due diligence in terms of letting them know what was going on. I mean, he even spoke with the transfer agent at the danged airport! But with all that said, I think he made a crucial mistake by not taking NCL's offer to fly him to the next available port. This is where things might get tricky with the T&C's. AA doesn't owe him because he chose to take a SW flight. AA could have gotten him there, just not in time for the cruise. It's not American's fault he had a cruise to catch. NCL isn't directly responsible for the flight, but they did have a responsibility to get him to the cruise, and they offered that. But the OP declined. This, I'm afraid, is where he may have trouble claiming anything. The insurance company will investigate and see that he declined an offer by NCL to catch them up to the cruise. I'm worried that decision will jeopardize any potential claim to which he would otherwise have a right. But it's still so, so frustrating and heartbreaking. Coincidentally, my wife and I were booked on a similar cruise a week before his, on 9/16/2022, from Boston to Quebec, and we had ALSO purchased the BOGO airfare through NCL. However, we had to cancel the cruise due to lack of vacation time caused by COVID while were in Spain back in May. We might have been in the same situation as our friend the OP. I really do hope and pray he's able to recover something. What a nightmare!😢

[hallux]

If your flights were booked through NCL's BOGO airfare deal, the first call after the first delay text should be to NCL's emergency air department (phone number provided in your cruise documents), to get help with booking alternate flights. However - at that point the options are going to be VERY limited.  You say you were in contact with NCL through the entire thing, was that through that number? 

 

Flying West to East poses some interesting challenges for flights.  NCL will book you to arrive ON departure day unless you ask for a deviation - in the case of a West to East flight that would usually be on a red-eye as in this case.  At that point in the day there are very few other options for flights to the embarkation port city.  Planning to fly in the day before in these cases is VERY prudent, to give some wiggle-room for delays and cancellations. I realize not everyone has excessive vacation time, but it's something that needs to be budgeted for in the planning of the trip.

 

If an airline reschedules or delays a flight by a certain amount of time and the resulting schedule provides a hardship for other plans I believe the airline is obligated to refund the flight if you need to make other arrangements, or work with a partner airline to get you there on time.  Easy to do if YOU booked the flight, but when it's booked by a 3rd-party it's a whole other ball-game.

 

SHOULD NCL have booked a flight like this?  Probably not, but it's well within the terms of the promotion for them to do so.  They also won't book a flight that would require a hotel stay unless the passenger requests it, so the flight that met the appropriate criteria was booked.  SHOULD NCL have been proactive to re-book the passenger when the first delay was communicated?  Maybe, IF the appropriate people knew.  When you consider that NCL is embarking how many passengers a day, or at least has passengers transiting to embarkation ports on NCL-booked flights, monitoring those flights (probably numbering in the thousands on Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday, the days leading to and actually typical embarkation days) can be a chore, especially if a weather event is happening.

 

For the OP - it's unfortunate that you missed your cruise, I'd be sick over it too!  I've flown to 3 cruises, haven't missed one despite having flight delays on two of them.  Why?  Because I flew the day before the cruise.  Oddly enough - the flight for at least one of those cruises SHOULD have gotten me to the embarkation city in plenty of time to make the ship if I had been sailing that day but the delays pushed it and I would have been too late to get the ship.  My next cruise - I can fly non-stop to the port city and I'm still going to go in a day early.

[RocketMan275]

29 minutes ago, masspector said:

NCL's obligation is to get you to your cruise on time.  NCL is run by people, just like you and me.  They can read the news just like anyone else and they know about the high number of flight delays and cancellations.  They should take that into account.  They should also have had a contingency in place if the original flight was delayed.  Legacy airlines have agreements if a flight is cancelled or severely delayed.  NCL should have been proactive in getting the customer on another flight to get there on time.  Also, the driver should have taken them from LGA, if there was room.  You cannot offer a customer a service and then just blow it off by saying, oh it was AA fault.  Sorry.

You're injecting a lot of "NCL should-haves" instead of focusing upon NCL's actual obligations.  

The 'contengcy plan' is getting you to the next possible port on the itinerary. You may not like that plan but that is what NCL is obligated to provide.

As for the driver, we don't know what happened there.  Clearly the shuttle company obligation was to provide transportation for specifically.  We do not know the legal ramifications or potential libilities involved in providing transportation to randomly arriving passenges not on their lists.

[graphicguy]

1 hour ago, SeaShark said:

 

AA cancelled the flights. AA failed the OP. Why is all the blame then on NCL? Nobody seems to feel that AA has any responsibility here.

 

 

AA does have responsibility.  How they handle it (I find AA worse than Frontier or Spirit, which is pretty bad), is telling.  There are certain time parameters that flights have to follow.  It’s XX hours late before airline penalties kick in.  So, check up on those.  Kicker here, is you booked a SW flight instead of making AA get you there.  They don’t know that, though.  Still, check out their rules regarding those delay penalties.

 

Assuming NCL scheduled the flights for you?  Then, they’re also responsible.

 

I don’t book NCL’s insurance (AEON, as someone else pointed out) as they only cover $500 for a trip delay, which is what this essentially is.  Just looked it up for Platinum….here’s what they state…

 

”Reimbursement for catch-up expense like meals and hotel if you are delayed getting to and from your trip up to $500.”

 

So, that’s exactly what the policy gave you.

 

NCL is faced with waiting for you to catch up, or inconvenient a few thousand other passengers to wait for you.  Not your fault, I understand.

 

I would contact AA, also.  They will probably wash t heir hands of the whole situation, but I’d still raise a stink with them, as this wasn’t weather related, so totally their fault.

 

Interestingly, there is also a clause in the Platinum Insurance stating you can get…

 

“Future credit if you need to cancel your trip for any reason-90% of cruise penalty”

 

I don’t see how you have to cancel, or who you cancel with, but might be worth a shot.

 

Good luck!

Edited December 2, 2022 by graphicguy

[New2cruise2022]

20 minutes ago, Karaboudjan said:

So you say that they are still making you jump through hoops but also that $500 is all you are going to get.  One of those must not be correct.  Is $500 really the final reimbursement or is it a partial amount and the rest is still dragging on?

 

I have never made a trip insurance claim, but I have read enough of these threads to get the gist of how it works - you have the insurance company and the cruise line each wanting the other to cover the reimbursement, and jumping through hoops seems to be how that process often works.  

 

So I agree - find out what the $500 payment was for and exactly what the policy says you are covered for.

This. Shifting liabilities is a huge part of claims. AA can argue that they are no longer liable if they schedule a flight for the next day and traveler elected to take a different airline. AA was not given a chance to “remedy” the failing of the delayed flight. (Delayed flights also have another wrinkle, which is, what is the cause of the delay. If it’s weather, the airline is basically blameless.) 

NCL will look to blame airlines. Airlines will push back at NCL. So there really could be some negotiating going on. 

[graphicguy]

7 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

You're injecting a lot of "NCL should-haves" instead of focusing upon NCL's actual obligations.  

The 'contengcy plan' is getting you to the next possible port on the itinerary. You may not like that plan but that is what NCL is obligated to provide.

As for the driver, we don't know what happened there.  Clearly the shuttle company obligation was to provide transportation for specifically.  We do not know the legal ramifications or potential libilities involved in providing transportation to randomly arriving passenges not on their lists.

Agree about Transport liability.  But, I was just in a situation in OCT sailing NCL out of NYC.  I had a scheduled (and paid for) shuttle that never showed up.  I flagged down the NCL bus organizer at the airport.  He did repeat that without a pre-bought reservation he could not help……UNTIL…I put a $10 bill in his hand.  He found me a seat and let me on board the bus.

 

Was I on his “list”?  Nope!  If the bus had a wreck and passengers were hurt or had to be transferred was I SOL?  Absolutely!  But, I liked the odds and he liked the 10 spot.

[SeaShark]

1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

See my post #21 where I asked a similar question about NCL.

I'm not deflecting anything in asking posters to describe what they believe are the obligations of AA and NCL as well as providing support for their beliefs.

 

Oh but you are deflecting. I posed a question and instead of answering it, you quote replied with another question...the very definition of deflecting. Even though you quoted my question about why nobody was looking at AA, you didn't answer it.

[mjkacmom]

17 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

You're injecting a lot of "NCL should-haves" instead of focusing upon NCL's actual obligations.  

The 'contengcy plan' is getting you to the next possible port on the itinerary. You may not like that plan but that is what NCL is obligated to provide.

As for the driver, we don't know what happened there.  Clearly the shuttle company obligation was to provide transportation for specifically.  We do not know the legal ramifications or potential libilities involved in providing transportation to randomly arriving passenges not on their lists.

It appears the shuttle would’ve arrived too late also.

[SeaShark]

3 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

It appears the shuttle would’ve arrived too late also.

Given the time at which the OP arrived in NY, I'm willing to bet that shuttles TO the ship had already stopped by that point. If taking the cab didn't get them there on time, waiting and taking the shuttle certainly would not have either. We also have to remember that you have to be onboard 2 hours prior to sailing on embarkation day. If the ship was scheduled to leave at 4pm, onboard time is 2pm. If it was 5pm, then onboard time would have been 3pm. No way the OP could do either when the flight only landed at 2:30pm. Think about it. Flight lands at 2:30pm...taxi to the gate...get off the plane...walk to baggage claim...pick up baggage...walk to NCL shuttle operator...at this point, what time is it???

[zzdoug]

I feel for Dave but I agree that solving the problem himself (if I understood correctly) by buying the Southwest tickets without guidance from the travel insurance company, and then refusing ncl's offer to fly them to the first stop of the cruise, again without consulting the travel insurance company, Dave is likely out of luck unfortunately. It's a terrible experience and I empathize. 

 

I don't hold AA responsible here. Airline delays are a normal occurrence when traveling, as noted in any common carrier contract. The seller of the transportation is NCL so that is who has responsibility to get them to the cruise as effectively as possible. Similarly I don't blame Boeing or Airbus who built the plane, the company who made the jet fuel, or any other subcontractor. 

 

If you had a hard time reaching a claims agent from the insurance company, that is useful information and makes me think I should buy insurance elsewhere. 

Edited December 2, 2022 by zzdoug
Clarification

[Karaboudjan]

6 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

Given the time at which the OP arrived in NY, I'm willing to bet that shuttles TO the ship had already stopped by that point. If taking the cab didn't get them there on time, waiting and taking the shuttle certainly would not have either. We also have to remember that you have to be onboard 2 hours prior to sailing on embarkation day. If the ship was scheduled to leave at 4pm, onboard time is 2pm. If it was 5pm, then onboard time would have been 3pm. No way the OP could do either when the flight only landed at 2:30pm. Think about it. Flight lands at 2:30pm...taxi to the gate...get off the plane...walk to baggage claim...pick up baggage...walk to NCL shuttle operator...at this point, what time is it???

 

According to the OP's description they spoke in person with the shuttle driver so apparently they had not stopped.  I'm sure that NCL can and does bend the 2-hour rule as needed, but I'd like my chances a lot better if I'm on an NCL-organized shuttle.

[zzdoug]

Also: pro tip: never stay at Times Square. 

[Karaboudjan]

4 minutes ago, zzdoug said:

If you had a hard time reaching a claims agent from the insurance company, that is useful information and makes me think I should buy insurance elsewhere. 

 

Where do you see that?  I don't see anything in their description about trouble reaching an agent.

[ronheg]

OP, is the $4000 cruise fare include taxes and port charges shore excursions etc.?  all that’s refundable

[Babr]

The cancellation for any reason to be reimbursed with FCC is good any time up until departure. It would not apply in this case.

 

 

[Babr]

49 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

AA does have responsibility.  How they handle it (I find AA worse than Frontier or Spirit, which is pretty bad), is telling.  There are certain time parameters that flights have to follow.  It’s XX hours late before airline penalties kick in.  So, check up on those.  Kicker here, is you booked a SW flight instead of making AA get you there.  They don’t know that, though.  Still, check out their rules regarding those delay penalties.

 

Assuming NCL scheduled the flights for you?  Then, they’re also responsible.

 

I don’t book NCL’s insurance (AEON, as someone else pointed out) as they only cover $500 for a trip delay, which is what this essentially is.  Just looked it up for Platinum….here’s what they state…

 

”Reimbursement for catch-up expense like meals and hotel if you are delayed getting to and from your trip up to $500.”

 

So, that’s exactly what the policy gave you.

 

NCL is faced with waiting for you to catch up, or inconvenient a few thousand other passengers to wait for you.  Not your fault, I understand.

 

I would contact AA, also.  They will probably wash t heir hands of the whole situation, but I’d still raise a stink with them, as this wasn’t weather related, so totally their fault.

 

Interestingly, there is also a clause in the Platinum Insurance stating you can get…

 

“Future credit if you need to cancel your trip for any reason-90% of cruise penalty”

 

I don’t see how you have to cancel, or who you cancel with, but might be worth a shot.

 

Good luck!

In some instances, airlines provide hotels and meal vouchers; but the OP booked those on his own and has been reimbursed for them by his insurance up to the policy maximum.

 

In no event is the airline responsible for reimbursing the cruise fare or additional expenses for returning home.

 

 

[RocketMan275]

41 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

 

Oh but you are deflecting. I posed a question and instead of answering it, you quote replied with another question...the very definition of deflecting. Even though you quoted my question about why nobody was looking at AA, you didn't answer it.

What  you describe as deflecting is asking what are NCL/AA contracual obligations.  Those who claim NCL/AA should have done something different  should be able to answer that question.  

[RocketMan275]

53 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Agree about Transport liability.  But, I was just in a situation in OCT sailing NCL out of NYC.  I had a scheduled (and paid for) shuttle that never showed up.  I flagged down the NCL bus organizer at the airport.  He did repeat that without a pre-bought reservation he could not help……UNTIL…I put a $10 bill in his hand.  He found me a seat and let me on board the bus.

 

Was I on his “list”?  Nope!  If the bus had a wreck and passengers were hurt or had to be transferred was I SOL?  Absolutely!  But, I liked the odds and he liked the 10 spot.

This is an example where some parties are precluded from taking actions some posters think they should.  They simply don't understand the financial/legal responsibilities of the actions they think someone should take.  In this case, the busdriver did exactly what he should do and called his supervisor who waved him off.  

 

This happened in NYC where the taxidrivers can/will/pursue legal actions against companies/individuals that interfer with their activities.  Transporting a non-paying party would certainly fall into that category.  One simply does not fight the NY taxidrivers association because you wind up fighting the city too.

[SeaShark]

10 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

What  you describe as deflecting is asking what are NCL/AA contracual obligations.  Those who claim NCL/AA should have done something different  should be able to answer that question.  

 

Right...but instead of deflecting to "what are they", why don't you just explain what they are instead? IOW...provide answers instead of new questions.

[zzdoug]

22 minutes ago, Karaboudjan said:

 

Where do you see that?  I don't see anything in their description about trouble reaching an agent.

I didn't see that.  I meant to say that  it would be useful to know whether Dave tried to contact the insurance company and if so, whether he had trouble reaching someone who could help, and if so, I would probably want to buy insurance elsewhere. 

[graphicguy]

Kind of lengthy but a worthwhile read about flight delay responsibilities.....

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/flight-delayed-or-canceled-what-you-need-to-know-and-what-airlines-owe-travelers/ar-AA14OQov

[graphicguy]

22 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

This is an example where some parties are precluded from taking actions some posters think they should.  They simply don't understand the financial/legal responsibilities of the actions they think someone should take.  In this case, the busdriver did exactly what he should do and called his supervisor who waved him off.  

 

This happened in NYC where the taxidrivers can/will/pursue legal actions against companies/individuals that interfer with their activities.  Transporting a non-paying party would certainly fall into that category.  One simply does not fight the NY taxidrivers association because you wind up fighting the city too.

Oh...I'm well aware of all that.  I'm also aware that if a person can make an extra buck, particularly those who work at the airports, they'll most likely do so.  

[graphicguy]

2 hours ago, Babr said:

https://affinitytravelcert.com/document/pdfs/NCL_Platinum_TX_COI_7_21.pdf

 

Looks like the claim was paid under Trip Delay. $500 is the maximum amount for additional expenses including return air. Failure to make the ship on time is not a covered reason for Trip Cancellation or Trip Interruption.

 

At the risk of sounding insensitive, it is vital to read and understand what a policy covers.

Plus, the OP gets 90% of the cruise fare payable as a FCC.  So, all is not lost.

[DCGuy64]

50 minutes ago, Karaboudjan said:

 

Where do you see that?  I don't see anything in their description about trouble reaching an agent.

FWIW, I think this person may be talking about the part where the OP stated that the insurance company was trying to make them jump through every hoop in an effort to avoid paying him what he was due. I think it was less about reaching the insurance company and more about getting them to pay. But that being said, he was paid the maximum benefit of $500 in the end.