Daily Service Charges are now officially out of hand

[Ret MP]

5 hours ago, A&L_Ont said:

I’m trying to understand your suggestion above.
 

First off Star Class gratuities are “included”.😉  In reality they are rolled into your cabin cost, as we know they aren’t free.  Trying to add that will not go over well. 

 

Under your proposed suggestion of 20% gratuities a Star Class cabin at $15K for a week would then be charged an additional $3k in tips just for their stewards, MDR room staff, and behind the scenes staff as per normal breakout of tips. Then add tax to that cruise cost increase.  As a regular Star Class guest you also know that is a cabin deal at todays prices. Some regular suites are almost that price. Do you think these services will have improved with that 20% addition?
 

This doesn’t include the Genie tip, specialty dining staff, bartenders along the way etc… that one wishes to tip over and above. How much would you propose the Genie gets in cash if the regular staff get $3k? 
 

At these rates we are beyond mass market cruise lines and closer to the Ritz Carlton yachts, or a private yacht over a cabin on deck 17. 
 

 

 

You're reading into my suggestion way too much. I'm a Star Class customer (generally).  I know about the costs involved.  Hand to hand tipping isn't involved in my suggestion.  If you tip the Genie, that's not part of my suggestion and completely up to you (optional).  AND I never suggested a % of gratuity to the fare cost.  I gave examples and what I don't mind paying.  Yes, in Star Class the gratuity is part of the fare cost.  But, so is the cost of the Specialty Restaurants, the deluxe beverage package, and soooooo much more, all being truly unlimited, BTW.  FOR ME:  If they take away the amount of the included gratuity and charge me a fair %, I wouldn't have a problem with that.  I'm not suggesting that we pay a % of the fare plus the included gratuity.  And my suggestion of 20%, which I'm only saying I'm willing to pay, that I'm making is only a guess of what is fair and equitable, I really have no idea what that would be.    If you look and read the totality of all my posts on this subject, you'd note that my comments are mainly geared towards the categories not in suite class.  I'm more concerned about the lower end categories (Interior Cabins, for example) who are right now paying a much higher % of gratuities than what the upper categories in Ocean View Balconies are paying and the crew keeping up with the cost of living, in almost real time.  Believe me, those of us that can afford to or, like me, actually save up for a couple of years to cruise in suites (Star Class for me), I'm not at all concerned about.  If you (you - not meaning YOU or anyone in particular) can't afford what goes along with a Star Class cruise, don't cruise Star Class.  

 

It's simple and already stated in a couple different ways, I think.  Instead of a flat gratuity rate, I BELIEVE that a percentage based upon fare cost is much more equitable for all involved.  That percentage would have to be made by the cruise line, obviously, and be fair for ALL involved.  And it is a replacement of the current system, not in addition to it. 

 

Some say that the cruise line should just pay the crew more and eliminate the flat rate and eliminate tipping all together (watch the fare go up if that happens).  I believe that that would be fine for the behind the scenes crew that I don't see and have face to face interaction with.  But, the person that is responsible cleaning my cabin, delivering my food and drink, I'd much prefer to pay them a tip equal to the service they provide, that I feel they deserve, and/or based upon the cost of the product.  Some service businesses have their servers pool their tips and distribute them equally amongst the wait staff and kitchen staff (dishwashers, busboys/girls, etc.).  

 

Once again, JMHO

 

EDITED IN:  BTW, there would be no math involved, by you, the customer, in the percentage system.  Royal would automatically figure the % at the time of purchase based upon the final fare cost and include the into your final cost.  You don't have to do a thing unless you want to check/verify their math.  

Edited December 12, 2022 by Ret MP

[Ocean Boy]

1 hour ago, Ret MP said:

 

 

EDITED IN:  BTW, there would be no math involved, by you, the customer, in the percentage system.  Royal would automatically figure the % at the time of purchase based upon the final fare cost and include the into your final cost.  

And we all know how good RCI is at doing math.😇

[A&L_Ont]

2 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

And we all know how good RCI is at doing math.😇

Just like their “sales”.  We know how that works 🤦‍♂️😂

[deliver42]

This is NCL's second increase this year.

[Ret MP]

42 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

Just like their “sales”.  We know how that works 🤦‍♂️😂

And unique, too.  You've got to get them when the become available because you won't see them again , right.

[cruzsnooze]

On 12/8/2022 at 5:48 AM, bjlaac said:

We have several cruises booked, mostly with RCL, but do have one with NCL.  Just got a letter they are "nominally" raising the daily service charge from $16.00 to $20.00 for those below their version of suites and $25 for everyone above.  This is a 25% increase, which is hardly nominal, and comes on top of the April 2022 increase to $16.00.

 

Now I'm all for tipping the crew and don't believe the removal of these charges are warranted unless there's a real good reason, but this is rediculous!  How long before RCL follows suit?

As long as it's merely a suggestion and can be adjusted at the guest services that will be okay with me. Also received an email today from RCL stating D+ are no longer allowed in the concierge lounge. Cruising is becoming more expensive then other forms of vacationing lately.

[cruzsnooze]

On 12/8/2022 at 5:54 AM, Diver2014 said:

If you can't afford to tip, don't cruise.  Flames, anyone?

So when you look to buy a car do you just pay full sticker because you can afford to or do you seek some value for your dollar?

[Incognito1]

On 12/8/2022 at 7:20 AM, ballarinamom said:

Maybe they should not able to be removed is my point.

Then they won't be "gratuities" and the employees will pay regular income taxes on them.

[Incognito1]

On 12/9/2022 at 7:17 AM, Longford said:

I'm not so certain the families of active duty military who depend on food stamps think they're being treated so well.

Do you mean those that drive their new SUVs to the food banks while wearing their apple watch and carrying an iPhone?  Yeah, anyone over E-3 on food stamps isn't managing their money well.  Because they're "entitled" to it.

 

(Speaking from experience.)

 

E-4 pay = $2393/mo Plus BAH of $2142 (in a low cost area; higher elsewhere).

 And E1 makes $17,736/yr -- that's someone fresh out of high school with zero skills.  Where are you getting the $1400/mo from?  That's either old info or BS.

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Incognito1

[time4u2go]

21 minutes ago, Incognito1 said:

Then they won't be "gratuities" and the employees will pay regular income taxes on them.

What country are you referring to in terms of income tax? Most cruise ship employees don't pay US income tax.

[Incognito1]

The Philippines, for one.  Don't know about others, but 100% certain cruise ship employees from the PI are paying income tax.  (I did not say US income tax -- but I'm sure most countries have their own versions.)

Edited December 13, 2022 by Incognito1

[Ret MP]

33 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

What country are you referring to in terms of income tax? Most cruise ship employees don't pay US income tax.

True because "most" cruise ship employees aren't U.S citizens or reside in the U.S.

 

Edited IN: To be clear: I'm talking about Social Security and Medicare.  Income tax is for American owned companies doing business aboad.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Ret MP

[time4u2go]

12 minutes ago, Incognito1 said:

The Philippines, for one.  Don't know about others, but 100% certain cruise ship employees from the PI are paying income tax.  (I did not say US income tax -- but I'm sure most countries have their own versions.)

Are gratuities taxed differently than other income in the philippines?

[Incognito1]

Don't know; I'm not Pinoy.

[Longford]

1 hour ago, Incognito1 said:

Do you mean those that drive their new SUVs to the food banks while wearing their apple watch and carrying an iPhone?  Yeah, anyone over E-3 on food stamps isn't managing their money well.  Because they're "entitled" to it.

 

(Speaking from experience.)

 

E-4 pay = $2393/mo Plus BAH of $2142 (in a low cost area; higher elsewhere).

 And E1 makes $17,736/yr -- that's someone fresh out of high school with zero skills.  Where are you getting the $1400/mo from?  That's either old info or BS.

 

So, you dispute what the branches of the military report about member families receiving food stamps.  Our soldiers are liars, grifters?  I'll trust "official" sources, and not anonymous postings to social media.  

[ldubs]

On 12/11/2022 at 9:34 AM, FamilyCruiserUK said:

So back to the OP, at what amount of daily grats do people feel would make them think about other cruise lines or stop cruising? 

25 

30 

40

Etc.....

 

That is actually a good and difficult to answer question.   If grats increased by $10/pp/day for a 10 day cruise,  all things being equal, we probably would not  stop cruising.  The only real answer I would be comfortable giving is it is the total cost of the cruise that matters.  If/when the total cost exceeds what we feel is worth it, then we will move on.   

[Incognito1]

1 hour ago, Longford said:

So, you dispute what the branches of the military report about member families receiving food stamps.  Our soldiers are liars, grifters?  I'll trust "official" sources, and not anonymous postings to social media.  

Official sources:

 

Basic Pay: 2022 Basic Pay Table - 1 Drill Pay.pdf (defense.gov)

BAH: Basic Housing Allowance | BAH Rate Lookup | Defense Travel Management Office (dod.mil)

 

Again, if a military member E-4 or above is using foodstamps, they're not managing their money well.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Incognito1

[ldubs]

On 12/11/2022 at 9:35 AM, Ret MP said:

Agreed.  But, the present system, as far as I know, does the same and going to a % system wouldn't change that just make it more equitable for the guests and give cost of living raises, almost in real time to the crew.  On the other hand, where countries don't allow tipping or it is not customary, everyone makes the same no matter how good or how bad the service they provide.  Where tipping is allowed or customary, if I don't think I received a level of service that I think it should be, I leave less or none.  That's a wake-up call to the person providing the service and incentive to do better or be a little more consistent. 

 

I understand your thinking here, and being from America, I'm used to that approach.  But is it more equitable?    I could see an argument that, based on the degree of effort needed,  headcount might be a better basis than fares paid.  Additionally, and maybe even more important, it is likely going to be a lot less complicated for cruise passengers to apply the daily suggested gratuity.   

 

There are a lot of jobs where superior performance is recognized by other than customer gratuities.  Of course, in our culture, that isn't applicable to a lot of service jobs.  The most obvious being restaurant workers. And, I'm pretty sure the high performers in our restaurants would be against replacing our current tipping system.  I wonder what the cruise ship staff would prefer.  

 

[ldubs]

On 12/11/2022 at 6:11 PM, bonsai3s said:

 

For tips, I usually received a quarter...sometimes 50 cents...when a customer gives me a dollar, I was forever grateful.

 

 

Oh man, that brings back memories of the paper route.  The monthly subscription was a couple bucks.  Anyone who gave a buck tip had their paper porched every day from then on.   Haha.  

[mpdog42]

9 hours ago, Ret MP said:

You're reading into my suggestion way too much. I'm a Star Class customer (generally).  I know about the costs involved.  Hand to hand tipping isn't involved in my suggestion.  If you tip the Genie, that's not part of my suggestion and completely up to you (optional).  AND I never suggested a % of gratuity to the fare cost.  I gave examples and what I don't mind paying.  Yes, in Star Class the gratuity is part of the fare cost.  But, so is the cost of the Specialty Restaurants, the deluxe beverage package, and soooooo much more, all being truly unlimited, BTW.  FOR ME:  If they take away the amount of the included gratuity and charge me a fair %, I wouldn't have a problem with that.  I'm not suggesting that we pay a % of the fare plus the included gratuity.  And my suggestion of 20%, which I'm only saying I'm willing to pay, that I'm making is only a guess of what is fair and equitable, I really have no idea what that would be.    If you look and read the totality of all my posts on this subject, you'd note that my comments are mainly geared towards the categories not in suite class.  I'm more concerned about the lower end categories (Interior Cabins, for example) who are right now paying a much higher % of gratuities than what the upper categories in Ocean View Balconies are paying and the crew keeping up with the cost of living, in almost real time.  Believe me, those of us that can afford to or, like me, actually save up for a couple of years to cruise in suites (Star Class for me), I'm not at all concerned about.  If you (you - not meaning YOU or anyone in particular) can't afford what goes along with a Star Class cruise, don't cruise Star Class.  

 

It's simple and already stated in a couple different ways, I think.  Instead of a flat gratuity rate, I BELIEVE that a percentage based upon fare cost is much more equitable for all involved.  That percentage would have to be made by the cruise line, obviously, and be fair for ALL involved.  And it is a replacement of the current system, not in addition to it. 

 

Some say that the cruise line should just pay the crew more and eliminate the flat rate and eliminate tipping all together (watch the fare go up if that happens).  I believe that that would be fine for the behind the scenes crew that I don't see and have face to face interaction with.  But, the person that is responsible cleaning my cabin, delivering my food and drink, I'd much prefer to pay them a tip equal to the service they provide, that I feel they deserve, and/or based upon the cost of the product.  Some service businesses have their servers pool their tips and distribute them equally amongst the wait staff and kitchen staff (dishwashers, busboys/girls, etc.).  

 

Once again, JMHO

 

EDITED IN:  BTW, there would be no math involved, by you, the customer, in the percentage system.  Royal would automatically figure the % at the time of purchase based upon the final fare cost and include the into your final cost.  You don't have to do a thing unless you want to check/verify their math.  

Retired SFC in Star Class??....Someone has a "Sugar Mama"!!!!😁

Edited December 13, 2022 by mpdog42

[ldubs]

On 12/11/2022 at 2:28 PM, Ret MP said:

If you work as a server at a Waffle House, yes you are working for low wages.  Cost of meal is low and thus the tip is low, even at 20%.  However, if you work at Ruth's Chris, at 20% and a good location, you are making a very good wage.  And let's be honest, I'd bet that the vast majority of cash tips aren't reported to the IRS, at least a good percentage of them aren't.  

 

One more thing I try to do to advantage the employee/server is I try to make sure I have enough cash on hand to pay my tip in cash, hard to do anymore as I don't usually carry cash.  I've heard (meaning I don't know this for sure) that tips are reduce by the % that the business is charged for charge cards, called the discount rate.  That could be anywhere between ~3 - 5% of the tip reduced.  Other reasons, too, but I won't get into that here.   

 

I do believe in our system here in the U.S.A. Good service/servers get good pay.  Bad service/servers don't.  Being a retired member of the Corporate team of a very large parking management company, I know that the hustlers at an upscale hotel valet make a very good wage, especially for entry level employment folks.  Those that don't hustle usually don't last for more than a week or two.

 

JMHO 

 

"I'd bet that the vast majority of cash tips aren't reported to the IRS"

 

If they are any good at all, they know exactly how much to report.  

[mpdog42]

1 hour ago, Longford said:

So, you dispute what the branches of the military report about member families receiving food stamps.  Our soldiers are liars, grifters?  I'll trust "official" sources, and not anonymous postings to social media.  

A Lot of People joining the military come with Family's.... A Wife and a Kid..starting out as E-1..

Not a smart move on their part.....

 

[ldubs]

13 hours ago, nelblu said:

Just consider the $16 pd as part of the total fare.  No calculations required and pretty simple.

 

First of all, I don't know why Royal allows Paxs to opt out.  Also, for those that opt out and say that they will tip accordingly based on service, this may be a simple excuse for not tipping at all.

 

Maybe they should call it a service charge.

 

I don't know how or where RCI pays taxes, but if the rules are anything like the IRS, if tips are not voluntary, then they are no longer treated as tips for tax accounting.  Not saying it is good or bad.  Just that it may be a big factor because they would be counted as taxable revenue I expect.   I wonder how service charges are treated under IRS rules.

 

 

[Ret MP]

31 minutes ago, mpdog42 said:

Retired SFC in Star Class??....Someone has a "Sugar Mama"!!!!😁

Nope, my wife is disabled and has SS.  We live well below our means and save up for Star Class.  It takes about 2 years to do so.  But, we sometimes take a cruise, Ocean View Balcony or Boardwalk Balcony between the Star Class cruises.  

 

BTW, I've retire 2 more time after the Army.  

[Ret MP]

3 hours ago, Incognito1 said:

Do you mean those that drive their new SUVs to the food banks while wearing their apple watch and carrying an iPhone?  Yeah, anyone over E-3 on food stamps isn't managing their money well.  Because they're "entitled" to it.

 

(Speaking from experience.)

 

E-4 pay = $2393/mo Plus BAH of $2142 (in a low cost area; higher elsewhere).

 And E1 makes $17,736/yr -- that's someone fresh out of high school with zero skills.  Where are you getting the $1400/mo from?  That's either old info or BS.

 

We have the richest poor people in the world.  

 

https://veteran.com/snap-benefits/