3 more ships to be sold from Carnival CORP, including two Costa

[CarnivalShips480]

Carnival to Sell Three More Ships, Two From Costa - Cruise Industry News | Cruise News

 

The Costa ships have to be Fortuna and Magica. I thought these ships would come to Carnival, but maybe Carnival couldn't find a spot for them. Very disappointing, also interesting release.

[MeganGC1983]

Something must be “wrong” or something with the Magica. Carnival really wanted her and the Luminosa from the beginning, but then they switched. And now she’s set to be sold. I wonder what’s really going on there. 

[CruiseAdict218]

This most likely don’t have the funds to convert them, so they’d rather sell them. The third ship is probably one of Hollands left or Aurora sadly. 

[CarnivalShips480]

Just now, CruiseAdict218 said:

This most likely don’t have the funds to convert them, so they’d rather sell them. The third ship is probably one of Hollands left or Aurora sadly. 

I guess so, but Luminosa conversion probably didn't cost too much. They could have done that.

[shof515]

the article says this is due to the china cruise market. Carnival corporation has an partnership with a china cruise brand called Adora cruises to build new ships for the china cruise market. i am confused on what is going on with the market. why are building ships now when they are issues with the ships they have now?

 

wont it be easier to transfer these 3 ships to that new china cruise partnership company instead of building new ships like what they are doing now? 

Edited December 21, 2022 by shof515

[CarnivalShips480]

8 minutes ago, shof515 said:

the article says this is due to the china cruise market. Carnival corporation has an partnership with a china cruise brand called Adora cruises to build new ships for the china cruise market. i am confused on what is going on with the market. why are building ships now when they are issues with the ships they have now?

 

wont it be easier to transfer these 3 ships to that new china cruise partnership company instead of building new ships like what they are doing now? 

It is a joint venture between Carnival and a Chinese shipbuilder, so naturally that means new ships. There has been a lot of pride with this first fully Chinese built ship.

[CarnivalShips480]

Maybe it is Atlantica and Mediterranea being sold. But those aren't Costa ships any more. 🤔

[Saint Greg]

43 minutes ago, MeganGC1983 said:

Something must be “wrong” or something with the Magica. Carnival really wanted her and the Luminosa from the beginning, but then they switched. And now she’s set to be sold. I wonder what’s really going on there. 

 

Old. I'm more interested in their Dream class ship and two Excel class ships. And I really think Carnival could use the other Spirit class ship since they probably aren't building any more smaller ships.

[CruiseAdict218]

25 minutes ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

Maybe it is Atlantica and Mediterranea being sold. But those aren't Costa ships any more. 🤔

 

41 minutes ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

I guess so, but Luminosa conversion probably didn't cost too much. They could have done that.

I believe Atlantica and Mediterranea’s ownership falls under the joint venture now, so Carnival may not be paying much to keep them a float 

 

Luminosa is also a few years younger than both, so it would t require that much change over. 
 

Other candidates would be, AIDAaura, one of the last two Rs, Aurora, I suppose Elation or Paradise could go too since they are due for dry dock. 

[jsglow]

3 minutes ago, Saint Greg said:

 

Old. I'm more interested in their Dream class ship and two Excel class ships. And I really think Carnival could use the other Spirit class ship since they probably aren't building any more smaller ships.

Greg, you're super knowledgeable about this stuff so I ask.  Do you have an easy breakdown about the ship classes and numbers in each that Costa has?  I agree that the hulls that make sense for Carnival are Spirit, Dream, maybe Vista, and Excel class vessels.  Nothing else makes sense to hang onto as 'available inventory'.

[Saint Greg]

6 minutes ago, jsglow said:

Greg, you're super knowledgeable about this stuff so I ask.  Do you have an easy breakdown about the ship classes and numbers in each that Costa has?  I agree that the hulls that make sense for Carnival are Spirit, Dream, maybe Vista, and Excel class vessels.  Nothing else makes sense to hang onto as 'available inventory'.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Cruises

 

[jsglow]

5 minutes ago, CruiseAdict218 said:

 

I believe Atlantica and Mediterranea’s ownership falls under the joint venture now, so Carnival may not be paying much to keep them a float 

 

Luminosa is also a few years younger than both, so it would t require that much change over. 
 

Other candidates would be, AIDAaura, one of the last two Rs, Aurora, I suppose Elation or Paradise could go too since they are due for dry dock. 

Yeah, but Carnival doesn't have readily available replacements and they just did a lot of planning already for Spirit and the rest of that Class.  I suppose Miracle could go to Tampa after Firenza arrives.

[chengkp75]

46 minutes ago, shof515 said:

wont it be easier to transfer these 3 ships to that new china cruise partnership company instead of building new ships like what they are doing now? 

Nope.  The ships being built in China are for the domestic market in China, so, just like the US PVSA, these ships must be built in China, flagged in China, owned (at least partially) in China, and crewed in China.  The current Costa ships in China need a foreign port call to be legal, these new ships will not need to leave China, so keeping control of the Chinese citizens, and keeping the money in China.

[tidecat]

P&O UK's Aurora would make sense as the next cut, as P&O just took delivery of an Excel-class ship (Arvia). It is also the only ship they have built before 2005.

[jsglow]

7 minutes ago, Saint Greg said:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Cruises

 

So Greg, if YOU were in charge of CCL, how would you redeploy the remaining Costa fleet meaning what would stay as part of their now smaller operation and what would be candidates for transfer to Carnival?  Like you perhaps, I think Carnival needs to come up with a viable plan for their existing 6 hulls in the Fantasy and Spirit classes.  Ultimately the Fantasy boats get replaced.  I'm a proponent of Sunshining the Spirit ships when $$ allows but that's down the road.

 

Personally I can see Deliziosa joining Luminosa (both Spirit hybrids) as eventual replacements for Elation/Paradise.  That maintains the 6 'short hull' fleet without having to put a new keel down. Thoughts?

[Saint Greg]

31 minutes ago, jsglow said:

So Greg, if YOU were in charge of CCL, how would you redeploy the remaining Costa fleet meaning what would stay as part of their now smaller operation and what would be candidates for transfer to Carnival?  Like you perhaps, I think Carnival needs to come up with a viable plan for their existing 6 hulls in the Fantasy and Spirit classes.  Ultimately the Fantasy boats get replaced.  I'm a proponent of Sunshining the Spirit ships when $$ allows but that's down the road.

 

Personally I can see Deliziosa joining Luminosa (both Spirit hybrids) as eventual replacements for Elation/Paradise.  That maintains the 6 'short hull' fleet without having to put a new keel down. Thoughts?

 

I would take the Spirit and Dream class ships off of their hands for sure. The two Excel class ships would probably be too much. As a cruiser I would love to have them but it may not be a great business move.

[CarnivalShips480]

3 hours ago, jsglow said:

Greg, you're super knowledgeable about this stuff so I ask.  Do you have an easy breakdown about the ship classes and numbers in each that Costa has?  I agree that the hulls that make sense for Carnival are Spirit, Dream, maybe Vista, and Excel class vessels.  Nothing else makes sense to hang onto as 'available inventory'.

Easy to read, right here on Cruise Critic, also for anyone else who needs it.

 

Destiny Class:

Costa Fortuna

Costa Magica

 

Concordia Class:

(Costa Concordia)

Costa Serena

Costa Pacifica

Costa Favolosa

Costa Fascinosa

 

Spirit/Vista Hybrid Class:

Costa Deliziosa

 

Dream Class:

Costa Diadema

 

Vista Class:

Costa Firenze (now alone)

 

Excel Class:

Costa Smeralda

Costa Toscana

[CarnivalShips480]

Something for all to remember these ships are being SOLD from Carnival Corporation, not transferred within.

[jsglow]

8 minutes ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

Something for all to remember these ships are being SOLD from Carnival Corporation, not transferred within.

Yep. But it certainly represents more of the 'right sizing' of the Costa fleet. At some point you get so small that you may as well become a Carnival subsidiary. (Look, all these Costa plans/announcements aren't independent. There's a strategy here that's being implemented.  They just pull the curtain slowly.)

[chengkp75]

5 minutes ago, jsglow said:

Yep. But it certainly represents more of the 'right sizing' of the Costa fleet. At some point you get so small that you may as well become a Carnival subsidiary. (Look, all these Costa plans/announcements aren't independent. There's a strategy here that's being implemented.  They just pull the curtain slowly.)

As the article says, they are divesting Costa's China capacity, to return to the Europe capacity pre-covid.  The Costa ships sailing in China were a "stop-gap" anyway, just until the Chinese built ships came on line.  Since there is no demand in China, they can do without any capacity now, until the new ships are built.

Edited December 21, 2022 by chengkp75

[tidecat]

There's also not much reason to increase supply in North America/Australia any further. Carnival Cruise Line and P&O Australia are or will soon be ahead of their pre-Covid capacity.

[jsglow]

53 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

As the article says, they are divesting Costa's China capacity, to return to the Europe capacity pre-covid.  The Costa ships sailing in China were a "stop-gap" anyway, just until the Chinese built ships came on line.  Since there is no demand in China, they can do without any capacity now, until the new ships are built.

I see that Venezia and Firenze were supposed to be China stopgaps; now both headed stateside. We could sure use Alantica and Mediterranea back from a useless anchorage somewhere. (Oh, and Americanized names so I don't have to look up spelling!)

[jsglow]

3 minutes ago, tidecat said:

There's also not much reason to increase supply in North America/Australia any further. Carnival Cruise Line and P&O Australia are or will soon be ahead of their pre-Covid capacity.

100% true unless you want to retire more '90s boats at Alang.

[CarnivalShips480]

5 minutes ago, jsglow said:

I see that Venezia and Firenze were supposed to be China stopgaps; now both headed stateside. We could sure use Alantica and Mediterranea back from a useless anchorage somewhere. (Oh, and Americanized names so I don't have to look up spelling!)

Here's how I remember. Type Atlantic and then add an A at the end

 

Type Mediterranean and then delete the N at the end. If you don't know how to spell Mediterranean, then just type something similar and then spelling suggestions can take over.

[tidecat]

38 minutes ago, jsglow said:

100% true unless you want to retire more '90s boats at Alang.

You might get $15 million in scrap for Elation or Paradise. Then there's the cost of moving Miracle over from Long Beach, possibly another ship in Miracle's place, and the cost of rebranding the Costa ship and getting it to the port of your choosing. That's likely a money loser.

 

Deliziosa would certainly have to come over to replace the second of Elation or Paradise, but that's the last Panamax (OG Panamax, not the new locks) ship on Costa's roster.

 

No real benefit for a 1:1 swap of Sunshine for Fortuna or Magica, which is only a few years younger. Same would apply if you took a smaller P&O UK ship and gave it to Carnival.