Restrictions on ordering with new menus

[Merion_Mom]

3 hours ago, The Fun Researcher said:

 

The comments that we're seeing have me concerned that they have changed a process in the kitchen that is not getting the food out as fresh and well prepped as before.

 

 

You expressed that well, and unfortunately, you SHOULD be concerned.

[The Fun Researcher]

9 minutes ago, mikegrip said:

 

Symphony we experienced the same as mikefromny-there was not a problem ordering two entrees when initially ordering.   It appears that Symphony is being more flexible from reports and I wonder as well if it is due to them having the new menu the longest.  I do hope the other ships relax their rigidity 

I'm guessing current and upcoming survey feedback will almost force more reasonable flexibility.  Honestly I can't remember ever making any special requests for my entrees but not allowing sauce on the side, or swapping for a baked potato (when it's on another dish that evening) has got to go IMO.

 

As an aside, I'm a little worried for my niece for our upcoming July Alaskan cruise.  She has wide and restrictive dietary restrictions and she was just doted over by the head waiter Maurice on our Allure cruise together this past June. The waitstaff was just amazing.  I hope this level of care continues, despite the more rigid new practice for those of us without restrictions.

[jbrinkm]

18 hours ago, fredmdcruisers said:

The new menus include India offers.

 

17 hours ago, MD_Dan said:

We've sailed on about ten week long cruises.  I'm a prescatarian.  My only allergy is to shellfish.  I choose not to eat meat.  In other cruises, I could order an Indian vegetarian entree.  And I enjoyed that because the same Atlantic salmon offered every meal became boring.

 

I'm really disappointed that the Indian meals that are now offered are not vegetarian. It was something you could always count on. 

[Merion_Mom]

37 minutes ago, jbrinkm said:

 

 

I'm really disappointed that the Indian meals that are now offered are not vegetarian. It was something you could always count on. 

 

 

There is Dal every day in the WJ. 😄 

[schlimazel_traveler]

1 hour ago, The Fun Researcher said:

 

As an aside, I'm a little worried for my niece for our upcoming July Alaskan cruise.  She has wide and restrictive dietary restrictions and she was just doted over by the head waiter Maurice on our Allure cruise together this past June. The waitstaff was just amazing.  I hope this level of care continues, despite the more rigid new practice for those of us without restrictions.

I think she will be asked to order ahead of time, but health restrictions will still be accommodated.

[HappyTexan44]

It also sounds like the notice on medical restrictions has to be pre-cruise now, where before the night before was fine.  

 

The thing that gets me.  If they aren't allowed people to swap out sides that are both on the menu that night, that means that the entrees are already plated before you order.  Maybe hours before you order.  That is a problem.  There is room for more than 3 people in the kitchen.  

 

 

[The Fun Researcher]

42 minutes ago, schlimazel_traveler said:

I think she will be asked to order ahead of time, but health restrictions will still be accommodated.

Thanks. Yeah last cruise each evening the head water took her order for dinner the following evening (and even lunch the following day in the MDR if we were doing that on a sea day)

30 minutes ago, HappyTexan44 said:

It also sounds like the notice on medical restrictions has to be pre-cruise now, where before the night before was fine.  

 

The thing that gets me.  If they aren't allowed people to swap out sides that are both on the menu that night, that means that the entrees are already plated before you order.  Maybe hours before you order.  That is a problem.  There is room for more than 3 people in the kitchen.  

 

 

Thanks for that.  I'll have to remind my sister to provide the information about my niece pre-cruise.

[Hawkstar33]

17 days away but who's counting. Hopefully Symphony will not let us down.  Alternate btwn Specialty and Windjammer for us.  Dining room and my patience don't get along.  I do know one thing.  The Premium Bev package never lets me down.  Salute

[Engineroom Snipe]

51 minutes ago, Hawkstar33 said:

17 days away but who's counting. Hopefully Symphony will not let us down.  Alternate btwn Specialty and Windjammer for us.  Dining room and my patience don't get along.  I do know one thing.  The Premium Bev package never lets me down.  Salute

 

Even in the fog of the premium beverage package, let us receive a limited view of your perception of dining. Since you have a specialty dining package, it is even more pertinent to get your viewpoint.

 

I always value first person reviews, "The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly". (1966. Sergio Leone director, Eastwood, Van Cleef, and Wallach).

[Hawkstar33]

47 minutes ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

 

Even in the fog of the premium beverage package, let us receive a limited view of your perception of dining. Since you have a specialty dining package, it is even more pertinent to get your viewpoint.

 

I always value first person reviews, "The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly". (1966. Sergio Leone director, Eastwood, Van Cleef, and Wallach).

Cruised Allure last May, so will see a comparison, and will report upon our return.  

[Engineroom Snipe]

10 minutes ago, Hawkstar33 said:

Cruised Allure last May, so will see a comparison, and will report upon our return.  

 

I had one in April on Anthem and it was a quality cruise in all ways. My Oasis in September was found wanting. I will appreciate your report. 🙂

[DallasGuy75219]

13 hours ago, The Fun Researcher said:

Trying to understand why they won't allow this.  If they are making these menu changes to speed up the meals, then NOT bringing them out at the same time is counterproductive

They want to dissuade people from ordering a second entree. 

 

Any word on whether they keep your second entree under a cloche at their station, or do they have to go back to the galley to get it?  If the former, I'd say the food would get cold, but that seems to be the new norm anyway.  If the latter, they're also creating more work for the waitstaff.

[DallasGuy75219]

11 hours ago, Mum2Mercury said:

Weird flex -- why would this upset the MDR staff?  

In the long term this means fewer waiter positions on a ship.  It's much less labor intensive to bus tables in the WJ vs. providing full table service n MDR.  Yes more people eating in the WJ will mean more waiters needed to bus tables, but not nearly as many as would get displaced from the MDR if pax start defecting in masse.

[Merion_Mom]

9 hours ago, The Fun Researcher said:

Thanks. Yeah last cruise each evening the head water took her order for dinner the following evening (and even lunch the following day in the MDR if we were doing that on a sea day)

Thanks for that.  I'll have to remind my sister to provide the information about my niece pre-cruise.

 

My dining companion on this cruise tells our waiter each evening what she wants for the following day.  It has worked well, most days.

[LouChamp]

Aloha. Have been sailing with Royal since the early 1980s. Besides the financial issues affecting the cruise lines and staffing issues, it is my opinion the ships are so massive that keeping the kitchens flowing properly is an additional issue with quality control.  Thus the new restrictions. It is simply a degradation of the overall cruise experience and therefore each guest has to decide whether they want the massive ship experience or not. Ive been on the massive ships a sufficient amount of time to have decided they are no longer for us. Of course we are older so the smaller lines will suit us fine although they too have their share of complaints. Finally, people who don’t know of Cruise Critic and/or are newbies may not even be awre of the changes, degradation, etc.  That said, smooth sailing to my cc friends!

[hotsauce126]

I don’t even know how so many of you guys can even eat second entrees. Usually by Day 2 on a cruise I’m already only alternating between “full” and “not that hungry”

[hac82]

15 minutes ago, LouChamp said:

Aloha. Have been sailing with Royal since the early 1980s. Besides the financial issues affecting the cruise lines and staffing issues, it is my opinion the ships are so massive that keeping the kitchens flowing properly is an additional issue with quality control.  Thus the new restrictions. It is simply a degradation of the overall cruise experience and therefore each guest has to decide whether they want the massive ship experience or not. Ive been on the massive ships a sufficient amount of time to have decided they are no longer for us. Of course we are older so the smaller lines will suit us fine although they too have their share of complaints. Finally, people who don’t know of Cruise Critic and/or are newbies may not even be awre of the changes, degradation, etc.  That said, smooth sailing to my cc friends!

Until you made this comment, I was thinking that the reasons were simply the fact that the "kinks" needed to be worked out between corporate statements indicating to employees that "we are serving only what is on the menu" and the fact that some employees interpret that statement differently based on their understanding of English and the fact that, in some countries, cultural differences do not allow people to do anything but follow instructions to the letter.

 

You have raised a new and yet viable consideration.  I have often wondered how it is that ships of the size that are being created today, are able to maintain the ability to create 30,000+ meals a day and at the same time be able to handle a "small" percentage of those meals needing to be special orders, whether they be for dietary needs and/or "off the cuff" special requests.  A normal, land-based restaurant may serve about 200 - 400 meals a day based on their size and number of table rotations and they too must provide the possibility of special requests because of allergies,  tolerances like gluten, dairy, low-salt, etc. and then even restrictions based on religious needs like Kosher, Halal, etc.  The difference is that, on land, there are far more restaurants to chose from and as a result, the impacts are most likely spread out across the board.

 

On a ship with 5,000 passengers, all looking for a meal within a 3-5 hour period raises the impact on the kitchen to a much higher level.  The numbers must be staggering with all the dietary needs that must come through on a daily basis and they must make sure that they are met without cross-contamination.  Add to that the special requests of a piece of salmon without the crust, and other similar requests, I can only start to imagine.    I do believe that the company has indicated to the wait staff that there are to be no deviations from the menu as printed but, what I do also believe is that if there is such a request as a baked potato instead of mashed, that that should be as simple as no potato, if and only if on that night the baked potato is available in the kitchen because of the menu.  The same would be true if someone wants a different sauce on their steak.  If the sauce is made for the menu that night, then having a steak with no sauce, but a different sauce on the side should be simple to accomplish.

 

I thank you for this additional insight and apologize for the lengthy response but it did make me more aware of the fact that not only does Royal Caribbean need to consider the possibility that some wait staff might take the orders too rigidly and see if there is a way to allow for some minor freedom in interpretation, we as the customer must be willing to accept some restrictions in order to allow the kitchens to make an ever increasing volume of food in a non-growing time-frame allowed to serve an ever increasing volume of passengers and, to Royal's statement, provide consistency amongst all the ships.  I fear that what has happened is that they have reached a point where the kitchen can no longer be big enough (equipment and staff) to handle the volume.  It appears that both sides need to compromise in the expectations.  Some may not agree with me, but I am now looking at this differently and I will need to adjust accordingly when we next sail in May on Liberty.  I hope that the "kinks' will be worked out by then.

[royalcedars]

I think it is not only a cost-cutting measure, but a revenue-producing measure.  More and more people are buying dining packages at specialty restaurants since the change in the MDR and the cutbacks in the WJ.  It is working as designed.

[jaredkira]

Went on brillance

of the seas 1/21. Menu was much cheaper items and no changes. Service was not faster. Felt bad for our waiter and head waiter

[DallasGuy75219]

1 hour ago, hac82 said:

I have often wondered how it is that ships of the size that are being created today, are able to maintain the ability to create 30,000+ meals a day and at the same time be able to handle a "small" percentage of those meals needing to be special orders, whether they be for dietary needs and/or "off the cuff" special requests.  

 

On a ship with 5,000 passengers, all looking for a meal within a 3-5 hour period raises the impact on the kitchen to a much higher level. 

I've actually heard a Maitre D' say something to this effect on one of the Oasis class ships, that on "lobster night" it's sometimes difficult to cycle everyone who wants to eat in the MDR that night through the MTD dining room.

 

So if you read between the lines... Once early and late seatings are full (if late seating ever fills up, I don't know because I only do MTD now), MTD is essentially a dumping ground for everyone else.  MTD counts on a certain number of people eating in the specialty restaurants or WJ (or another free venue) on any given night.  On lobster night, especially on summer or holiday sailings where lots of 3rd and 4th berths are taken, the bigger ships are not designed and/or staffed for everyone to eat in the MDR.

 

On that same cruise actually, on lobster night they were offering people waiting in line half off at Chops to go eat there instead. 

[ecslady]

If you have medical dietary restrictions, how do you let staff know pre-cruise of your needs?  I was just placed on a gluten-free diet, and between the new menus and now having to be gluten-free, how does one handle this?  My next RC cruise won't be till July on Oasis with family, so  I hope things improve by then.  Has anyone that has to be gluten-free cruised with the new menus yet?

[jacobtsf]

3 minutes ago, ecslady said:

If you have medical dietary restrictions, how do you let staff know pre-cruise of your needs?  I was just placed on a gluten-free diet, and between the new menus and now having to be gluten-free, how does one handle this?  My next RC cruise won't be till July on Oasis with family, so  I hope things improve by then.  Has anyone that has to be gluten-free cruised with the new menus yet?

Call Customer Service and have it added to your reservation. 

 

And then also mention it to your waiter on the first night (maybe even stop by after boarding the ship and talk to the head waiter)

[Engineroom Snipe]

31 minutes ago, jaredkira said:

Went on brillance

of the seas 1/21. Menu was much cheaper items and no changes. Service was not faster. Felt bad for our waiter and head waiter

 

The waiters and head waiter are in a no-win situation. They are the immediate face of RCI if there are any perceived or real problems with food service.

 

Cruisers who are used to a different type of service will complain, write bad reviews, possibly remove gratuities even if servers are following the printed menu and management policies.

 

The servers cannot complain to their superiors because the implicit threat is "we will get someone else to do your job if you cannot sell the management decisions to the customers. You took the job, handle it. We do not want to hear about complaints (regardless of the servers following orders from management)."

 

Personally, I never want to put the servers in that situation. I will go to the Windjammer instead of MDR to avoid further problems, but the management will most likely blame my absence on the servers. They are like the coaches in sports. They do not control the quality of players they get (how much the owner is willing to approach their salary caps). They are the easiest people change or blame when the team loses for other reasons. 

 

I am still going to wait and see for myself but many of the posters have identified a common theme that the meals are not arriving hot and well prepared. I can understand RCI not serving certain items every night but what items are served should be hot (or cold) and reasonably prepared. This has more to do with raw material quality, preparation, and cooking than who served the final product.

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Engineroom Snipe
grammer

[The Fun Researcher]

2 hours ago, LouChamp said:

Aloha. Have been sailing with Royal since the early 1980s. Besides the financial issues affecting the cruise lines and staffing issues, it is my opinion the ships are so massive that keeping the kitchens flowing properly is an additional issue with quality control.  Thus the new restrictions. It is simply a degradation of the overall cruise experience and therefore each guest has to decide whether they want the massive ship experience or not. Ive been on the massive ships a sufficient amount of time to have decided they are no longer for us. Of course we are older so the smaller lines will suit us fine although they too have their share of complaints. Finally, people who don’t know of Cruise Critic and/or are newbies may not even be awre of the changes, degradation, etc.  That said, smooth sailing to my cc friends!

Hmm, I don't know.

 

Kitchens and staff are sized to the ship.  We had consistent excellent food quality and service in the MDR on the Allure this past June, and that's the biggest class of cruise ship in the world.  So it can be done.

 

Regarding your comments on small ships.  Are you saying small ships on Royal do it better than large ships on Royal?  Or, are you referencing premium lines/ships like Cunard, QM2, Crystal.  In that case of course you are going to get an upscale food experience, but has more to do with the price of your cruise than the size of the ship.  Hard to delineate size of ship versus food quality because true premium lines don't have mega ships.  The clientele base is smaller due to the cost and they couldn't fill them.

[Snoopycollector]

48 minutes ago, ecslady said:

If you have medical dietary restrictions, how do you let staff know pre-cruise of your needs?  I was just placed on a gluten-free diet, and between the new menus and now having to be gluten-free, how does one handle this?  My next RC cruise won't be till July on Oasis with family, so  I hope things improve by then.  Has anyone that has to be gluten-free cruised with the new menus yet?

 

Send an email to special_needs@rccl.com - tell them your dietary restrictions, and the information of your sailing - reservation #, et al.   I've noticed that the waiters now ask at the table before taking orders, if anyone has any food allergies...  (and I have several)

 

It does get tedious because they aren't all well-versed in the allergies and it usually brings over the HW to discuss, etc.  

 

These foods are prepared in a separate kitchen away from the potential problems.  As gluten can be quite "sticky" - I'm sure they have a gluten free prep area.

 

Sandy