Nobu

[BWIVince]

Ok, big picture post coming...

 

From outside the industry, I think if you look at Crystal's relationship with Nobu you just take it as face value as another licensing deal -- which it is.  But I think there's a significant role it's played in both luxury cruising and helping redefine Crystal as a brand in its middle-age that sometimes gets overlooked.

 

For the first decade+ of Crystal's life, they (and EVERY other luxury line through their absence) struggled to make an Asian cuisine concept that people viewed as appropriately premium for luxury cruising.  They tried making Japanese fancy, they tried focusing on what's normally expensive on Asian menus, they tried using primarily ingredients people perceived as luxurious, they tried going trendy with Asian fusion, they tried going authentic with popular southeast Asian flavors -- none of it resonated -- despite two venues and a handful of concepts between them.

 

Then Crystal applied a formula that worked for them on other projects -- license a venue consulted with a chef that has premium cachet in that segment.  That was a tried and true formula, but groundbreaking for an Asian venue on a cruise ship at the time -- and it was HIGHLY successful in turning Crystal's reputation  (and of Asian food in general for US-based ships at the time) on that aspect.

 

Looking around the industry, I don't think this is something that other lines have really solved for either.  Other luxury or upper-premium lines have Asian venues or concepts that serve good food, just like Crystal did before Nobu. Other lines serve good sushi.  Good sushi and good Asian dishes are a given in most of our lives, and most Americans can now get that within a reasonably short drive of our homes.  I enjoy the variety of both on a cruise, but the "I had that last week before my cruise and will probably have it again next week after I get home" limits my excitement in those cases.

 

What Nobu brought to the party was something fewer people had that same access to (whether because of location or price point), and a brand that was perceived as both premium and relatively unique - though many of his dishes are mimicked worldwide now...  Which again speaks to his cachet.  

 

So whether or not some passengers thought Nobu was a culinary icon or not (or to their taste), it certainly represented Crystal pushing the cruise industry to turn a corner on what it meant to serve Asian cuisines to luxury passengers.  Mimicking this success is what's at stake in this potential change.

 

Just some food for thought.

 

Vince

Edited February 13, 2023 by BWIVince

[travelberlin]

Mein Schiff cruises have associated with Tim Raue,  a chef that holds two Michelin stars. His restaurant in Berlin is listed among the 50 bests of the world. On the Mein Schiff ships his restaurant is called Hanami and is Asian/ Peruvian. Once in a while he boards one of the ships to the delight of the passengers. 
 

The food at Hanami is special. The setting wonderful. They offer also very good Sushi but it is mainly a starter. 
Ivi

 

[Mr Luxury]

9 hours ago, travelberlin said:

Mein Schiff cruises have associated with Tim Raue,  a chef that holds two Michelin stars. His restaurant in Berlin is listed among the 50 bests of the world. On the Mein Schiff ships his restaurant is called Hanami and is Asian/ Peruvian. Once in a while he boards one of the ships to the delight of the passengers. 
 

The food at Hanami is special. The setting wonderful. They offer also very good Sushi but it is mainly a starter. 
Ivi

 

I'm not having the table under the stairs

[Keith1010]

What I loved about Nobu was seeing so many people learn from the experience.

 

We loved Nobu from day 1.  I remember some people even on this board were afraid to try it.  All they could think of was "raw fish" and it took awhile for them to realize it was far from that although I certainly enjoyed my share of the sashimi. Many were also afraid to go not knowing what to order.  

 

Other than a few people who just don't like this type of cuisine I rarely heard complaints and that is a big contrast to many complaining about Silk.

 

I remember the people waiting to sit at the Sushi Bar and it was always fun dining there by ourselves with two other people or in a group of 8 or so people.

 

What made Nobu stand out at sea was not only that it served the cuisine developed by Nobu, and the chefs Nobu trained but the amazing wait staff team who added to the experience.

 

And at the evening unlike being on land we didn't have to sign a cheque for several hundred dollars which was the equivalent of what we ate or drank. I know it was part of the cruise fare, but the cost of the cuisine was certainly more expensive than you might find at the typical specialty restaurant.

 

Keith

[Texas Tillie]

What year did the concept change from Jade Garden to Silk Road on the Symphony?

 

Patty

[Txcotn]

41 minutes ago, Texas Tillie said:

What year did the concept change from Jade Garden to Silk Road on the Symphony?

 

Patty

Around '07 or '08

[Texas Tillie]

1 minute ago, suzeluvscruz said:

Around '07 or '08

 

Know it wasn't 2007 as my first Crystal cruise was Nov., 2007 and it was still Jade Garden then.

 

Patty

[BWIVince]

20 minutes ago, Texas Tillie said:

 

Know it wasn't 2007 as my first Crystal cruise was Nov., 2007 and it was still Jade Garden then.

 

Patty

 

It was dedicated March 21 or 22, 2008...  I'm not home right now and don't have access to any of my stuff, but I was at the dedication and remember the date vaguely enough.  It opened for shakedown service a few days before that, and entered full service right after that.

 

Vince

[TER777]

The conversion was during the crossing from California to Asia. Construction started when the ship left California and was completed and the restaurant opened before we got to Asia. 

[Txcotn]

1 hour ago, Texas Tillie said:

 

Know it wasn't 2007 as my first Crystal cruise was Nov., 2007 and it was still Jade Garden then.

 

Patty

Then it was ‘08. We were on board both years. Nobu was there to crack the sake bottle! The space was renovated between LA and HK and the ceremony was right after we left HK. 

Edited February 14, 2023 by suzeluvscruz

[travelberlin]

10 hours ago, Mr Luxury said:

I'm not having the table under the stairs

Is an optical illusion 😂

Ivi

[Embowaf]

My first Crystal was in 2005 (Symphony, Baltics) when I was 14... so I barely remember it. I have no recollection of the specialty restaurants, but I was a far far pickier eater back then. And then we didn't do Crystal again until 2010 (Serentiy, Mediterranean) at which point it would have been Silk Road right? I have pictures on my iPhone from then and can see that the majority of the menu hadn't changed from that point

The Umi Uma name switch came with the overhauls of the ships in 2017/2018 right? Did anything else change then besides the name?

What was Jade Garden vs Silk Road? Was that when the Nobu partnership started? Did the ships have Jade Garden from the beginning?

And I guess for that matter, was Prego effectively the same from the beginning?

[Keith1010]

3 hours ago, Embowaf said:

My first Crystal was in 2005 (Symphony, Baltics) when I was 14... so I barely remember it. I have no recollection of the specialty restaurants, but I was a far far pickier eater back then. And then we didn't do Crystal again until 2010 (Serentiy, Mediterranean) at which point it would have been Silk Road right? I have pictures on my iPhone from then and can see that the majority of the menu hadn't changed from that point

The Umi Uma name switch came with the overhauls of the ships in 2017/2018 right? Did anything else change then besides the name?

What was Jade Garden vs Silk Road? Was that when the Nobu partnership started? Did the ships have Jade Garden from the beginning?

And I guess for that matter, was Prego effectively the same from the beginning?

Nobu was always on Serenity.  In 2010 it was called Silk Road.  Yes a few years ago when they renames Crystal Dining Room to Waterside they Tastes to Silk and renamed Silk Road to Umi Uma..  The cuisine was the same.  Over the years a few changes were made to the Nobu menu but the style of food remained the same.

 

Keith

[BWIVince]

3 hours ago, Embowaf said:

My first Crystal was in 2005 (Symphony, Baltics) when I was 14... so I barely remember it. I have no recollection of the specialty restaurants, but I was a far far pickier eater back then. And then we didn't do Crystal again until 2010 (Serentiy, Mediterranean) at which point it would have been Silk Road right? I have pictures on my iPhone from then and can see that the majority of the menu hadn't changed from that point

The Umi Uma name switch came with the overhauls of the ships in 2017/2018 right? Did anything else change then besides the name?

What was Jade Garden vs Silk Road? Was that when the Nobu partnership started? Did the ships have Jade Garden from the beginning?

And I guess for that matter, was Prego effectively the same from the beginning?

Yep, Harmony launched with Prego from the beginning, and it’s the only dining  concept that all three ships had from previous Crystal’s beginning to end, plus or minus the Trident Grill and Scoops.

 

Jade Garden was only on Symphony (the way Kyoto was only on Harmony), and existed from launch in 1995 until 2008 when the ship was refitted with a sushi bar and updated decor, and renamed Silk Road to harmonize with Serenity’s Silk Road that she was launched with.

 

Jade Garden went through several culinary concepts during those years, including Chinese, Pan Asian, Southeast Asian fusion, and a stint with Wolfgang Puck consulting on some menu items from his Chinois experience, as Chinois at Jade Garden.  (His famous Chinois Chicken Salad remained a Crystal staple for years after the venue closed, appearing in other places around the ship.).
 

Nobu began his relationship with Crystal in 2001 and the Silk Road concept with his leadership was formally announced for the upcoming Serenity on June 27, 2002.

 

As far as I’m aware, nothing significant besides the name switched with Umi Uma — Crystal just needed a brand they could trademark since the generic Silk Road name was problematic as they were trying to invest in the concept for future ships.

Let me know if you have any other questions — I know lots of history.  😊 

 

Vince

[ctjon]

Wonder how many on this board sailed on Harmony - we did.  A few years ago it was still sailing under different name/different company  As I remember Symphony was a huge leap up from Harmony

[Txcotn]

53 minutes ago, ctjon said:

Wonder how many on this board sailed on Harmony - we did.  A few years ago it was still sailing under different name/different company  As I remember Symphony was a huge leap up from Harmony

Azuka2 unnder NYK.

[Psoque]

I still insist that excellent food served in Silk Road/Umi Uma was primarily because the ships had well trained Japanese chefs (of course assisted by less trained chefs from all over the world), some of them who stayed with the ships for decades until about the same time Genting bought the line.  Nobu was mainly a marketing tool for Crystal.  From what I experienced, the menu items at Silk Road/Umi Uma were not that unique to Nobu.  And it’s really the people who cook the food that can make the Nobu recipes turn into good/bad food.

 

Old Crystal Cruises was able to hire a trained Japanese chef for both of their big ships mainly because it was a Japanese company.  Many Japanese people prefer to work for Japanese company….it’s a thing.  If you were not aware, most Japanese chefs who cook traditional Japanese food would NEVER leave Japan for multiple reasons (too long to write it here).  Also, since the old Crystal Cruises used to have a fairly sizable Japanese customer base (actual people living in Japan), they had to hire a chef that is capable of producing a respectable Japanese food every night.  That was a tall order.  I think the Nobu/Silk Road transition was a smart move on the part of old Crystal, since it made the cuisine at least appear “different” from traditional Japanese fare, properly adjusting the expectations (of Japanese and other customers who has had good Japanese food on land) and at the same time adding a sense of excitement and cache to the restaurant.

 

Given that, return of Nobu brand to the new Crystal is irrelevant.  What the new Crystal needs to do is to hire and/or train excellent chefs.  I personally think reproducing the level of excellence that old Crystal had pre-Genting may not be possible.  

[Cruiselover51]

Hello, NOBU is back on Crystal Ships!

When Crystal Serenity and Crystal Symphony set sail for their inaugural seasons later this year, guests will be pleased to find UMI UMA by Nobu Matsuhisa Restaurant and Sushi Bar is back as well, the cruise line announced today (March 15, 2023).