Lights Out at Midnight

[albingirl]

10 hours ago, KroozNut said:

 

Thanks, and we will. 'Miserable' is in the eye of the beholder as they say. Only 9 days, 3 hours and 55 mins to go... but who's counting, right?! 😁

Have fun.

[kirtihk]

15 hours ago, eroller said:

 

Not apples to apples.  Small luxury ship compared to a mass-market large ship.  
 

I’ve sailed on Regent, Oceania, Windstar, Silversea, Azamara and other small ships, and could always find a bar serving drinks past midnight.  They all had pretty much better nightlife than HAL, sad to say.  

It's good.  On my mentioned cruises all bars were closed at midnight (or sooner); they were just offering to remaining guests to order more just 5 minutes prior to closing.

[eroller]

1 hour ago, kirtihk said:

It's good.  On my mentioned cruises all bars were closed at midnight (or sooner); they were just offering to remaining guests to order more just 5 minutes prior to closing.

 

I believe you but just wasn’t the case on my cruises (on the small luxury ships).  The crowd can vary and on each of my sailings there was always a small but lively group that stayed up late (past midnight anyway).  Can’t say how late!

[eroller]

2 hours ago, Sea42 said:

Cutbacks continue on other lines also.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/this-cruise-line-cant-turn-you-down-5672d9c9?st=8lftwmq9lfob4ai&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

 

 

Absolutely and I’ve never denied it, but from my personal experience its been more in your face on Carnival Corp brands including HAL.  That may change as we move forward but it’s what I have observed thus far.  

[Sea42]

35 minutes ago, eroller said:

 

Absolutely and I’ve never denied it, but from my personal experience its been more in your face on Carnival Corp brands including HAL.  That may change as we move forward but it’s what I have observed thus far.  

It is sad to see. I get that most lines are having to deal with these types of issues but it's hard to watch something change from what you've enjoyed in the past.

[eroller]

4 minutes ago, Sea42 said:

It is sad to see. I get that most lines are having to deal with these types of issues but it's hard to watch something change from what you've enjoyed in the past.

 

 

I agree 100%, but as consumers we have the ultimate say in the outcome.  Hopefully this is just a temporary situation as cruise lines strive for profitability but it concerns me this might all just be the "new norm" as cruise lines realize the revenue potential (at customer expense). 

[eroller]

17 hours ago, eroller said:

 

One of my favorite lines is Cunard.  They share many attributes with HAL being another traditional line.  One thing they don’t share is a lack of nightlife.  Cunard ships have nightclubs and they are active.  Getting a drink after midnight is never an issue.  Yet the average age is high just like HAL but the vibe is different.  More international and more youthful.  
 

 

 

 

Funny I just wrote the above yesterday about Cunard, and today I see this post from Cunard on my Twitter feed.  Not only is Cunard embracing nightlife onboard, they are enhancing it by adding more options such as a silent disco (hugely popular on many lines).  Miraculously they even have the staffing to support a bar open past midnight!   The irony is that Cunard is so similar to HAL in many ways, yet so different.  They have Vista Class ships (and soon a Pinnacle Class) and the age demographic is very similar, yet Cunard is so much more vibrant and actually has nightlife. 

 

HAL over the years has tried in vein to have some resemblance of nightlife.  I remember when ZUIDERDAM was introduced.  It was going to be a new direction for HAL.  More vibrant decor, sailing year round in the Caribbean, and yes even a dedicated nightclub (Northern Lights I believe).  It was all a flop and HAL can't seem to escape its sedate rut.  Northern Lights on all the ships is now Gallery Bar or something to that effect.  I applaud HAL for at least trying, as they know it's in their best interest for future survival.

[OlsSalt]

Why should Hal try to escape its "sedate rut"?  

 

This remains a marketing plus, in the sea of livelier options. In fact, HAL should celebrate this endearing feature. 

[eroller]

15 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

Why should Hal try to escape its "sedate rut"?  

 

This remains a marketing plus, in the sea of livelier options. In fact, HAL should celebrate this endearing feature. 

 

Perfect if you want a floating nursing home.  I’m sure their bookings will soar if they promote that.  Already they are having to resort to rock bottom pricing to fill ships.  I can sail HAL cheaper than Carnival.  
 

I personally like a balance.  I don’t need to party till dawn but if I want some activity past 10pm I want it to be available.  

Edited March 9, 2023 by eroller

[HALcruiser2001]

On 3/8/2023 at 7:54 AM, Colorado Klutch said:

 

It's hard to convey tone on a message board, but I don't think anyone is intentionally giving the stink eye here. Rather, I think they are simply saying they are not people who stay up late drinking and don't understand why some people would be upset when the bars close at midnight. 

 

To repeat, I think it's very likely HAL would like to keep the bars open later, but they simply don't have the staff onboard to do so. 

I don't think so.  I think that HAL closes the bars at 00:00 because most people go to bed.  They have plenty of staff to continue serving drinks.  There are only 2 bartenders at the Ocean for the entire day.  For example.

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by bdd123

[OlsSalt]

How would we ever know whether HAL's lower cruise costs are a result of having fewer frenetic onboard distractions; or as you conclude desperate need to fill their ships? 

 

Always associated "sedate" as being attractive to the more self-contained passenger; not being  floating hospice operation.

 

In fact, seeing passengers in various stages of mobility limitations on our very fist HAL first cruise was a plus, because it showed us cruising was going to be a travel option long after our own more active travel years started closing down.

[eroller]

26 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

How would we ever know whether HAL's lower cruise costs are a result of having fewer frenetic onboard distractions; or as you conclude desperate need to fill their ships? 

 

 

Probably because that is the reputation of the brand.  It didn’t earn the slogan “gods waiting room” for no reason.  The fact you can’t get a drink past midnight only helps solidify the reputation.  That kind of sedate atmosphere has limited appeal especially with a customer base that is dying off.  This is especially true in the world of cruising.  HAL’s own attempts over the years to appeal to a younger demographic and shake off its image seems to confirm the need and desire for a broader customer base.  It certainly might help explain the low rates we are seeing.  Simple supply and demand.  

Edited March 9, 2023 by eroller

[cruisemom42]

21 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

Why should Hal try to escape its "sedate rut"?  

 

This remains a marketing plus, in the sea of livelier options. In fact, HAL should celebrate this endearing feature. 

 

First, let me say that I like HAL (primarily at this point for their itineraries and lingering nostalgia for past family experiences), and I want to see the line continue.

 

In this vein, I am greatly concerned by the number of posters I encounter on other boards here on CC who were once loyal HAL cruisers but have since jumped ship. At the same time, I encounter many other cruisers who will not venture aboard a HAL ship -- despite looking for alternatives to lines with, shall we say, less sophisticated onboard atmospheres -- due to its current reputation. A reputation that is reinforced by posts from many of those who have fled for greener pastures.

 

HAL cannot continue to alienate BOTH long-time cruisers and potential new cruisers with their offerings. The hardcore group of cruisers who will never leave HAL no matter what is not enough to sustain the line. You cannot fill up the number of ships HAL currently has with those who are willing to forego what is considered a baseline of services/options for the better mass market lines (which I consider to be Celebrity, Princess, and HAL).

 

You've repeatedly said that you want HAL to stay as it is. But HAL isn't and hasn't been staying the same. HAL was never a "bare bones" cruise line until very recently. It was the premium line that Carnival acquired to give their overall brand some class. Once upon a time, HAL food was good, HAL entertainment was the equal of other lines, and their service and shipboard ambience were excellent. HAL in those days had music, dancing, lively deck parties, themed evenings -- all of which encouraged a vivacious experience. 

 

Now, about all HAL has to boast about are good itineraries (and kudos to them for finally recognizing it), and pleasant -- if sometimes stretched too far -- service. It's as if HAL is Kodak, ignoring the digital revolution. You seem to believe that HAL will continue to attract cruisers in search of a sedate atmosphere. But what I read elsewhere on these boards is that today's retirees also want what is out there on other lines -- better and more interesting food and entertainment, more options of things to do on board that involve lifelong learning, etc. 

 

I suspect it suits your cruising style to support HAL continuing to pare down until they become similar to your much-liked CMV cruises. But -- like my own much-liked Voyages to Antiquity -- there is a very small niche for these kinds of cruises. And HAL is not a niche line, it is a mass-market line with 9 ships that carry 2,000 or more passengers with berths that must be filled week in and week out.

 

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

11 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

How would we ever know whether HAL's lower cruise costs are a result of having fewer frenetic onboard distractions; or as you conclude desperate need to fill their ships? 

 

Always associated "sedate" as being attractive to the more self-contained passenger; not being  floating hospice operation.

 

In fact, seeing passengers in various stages of mobility limitations on our very fist HAL first cruise was a plus, because it showed us cruising was going to be a travel option long after our own more active travel years started closing down.

 

I agree that some of the older less-able passengers show that travel is possible in advancing years. I've often said that HAL isn't God's waiting room, but a place for people who point to the heavens and say "Not yet!" 

 

But lately, HAL is going from sedate to boring. Not all of the retirement-age passengers have to go to their cabins for a nap every afternoon. Give us something interesting to do! There will be increased enrichment for the legendary cruises. Great! But what about the other cruises. Will they get enrichment programs? And no, rooms set up with scrabble boards, mahjong tiles, or playing cards is not my idea of entertainment or enrichment. I love to relax, read, look at the sea. But not all day long. 

 

Every entertainment change makes HAL worse. Yes, there's lively music. Billboard, BBKing, Rolling Stone. Good, that makes the fans of loud pop music happy. What about variety? There's no more classical, unless you happen to be on a cruise with a few LC performances in the main showroom (if that really ever happens). No jazz combo. No dancing. No piano bar. Pitiful showroom choices. No guest entertainers. One BBC nature film is a nice change from other types of entertainment, but that's enough. On a 10 day cruise, there were four Step One shows. They're all pretty much the same with different videos and music. They need more variety, more guest entertainers. Bing back the guy who played the turkey baster!!! (don't roll your eyes, he was hysterical). 

 

When I book a HAL cruise, it's for the itinerary more than entertainment. Most of my HAL cruises have been winter getaways. Mostly, I want warmth, sea, and sunshine. Sadly, I don't expect much in the way of enrichment or entertainment. But I would like a little something to my taste for the evening. Failing that, I'm bored, so I'll just go to my cabin and hope for a good movie or just read. Pathetic to spend money to do something I do most evenings at home. No wonder I'm never up and about at midnight. HAL gives me no reason to stay up late. 

[OlsSalt]

Gosh, a cruise line that is sedate and only offers great itineraries.  What a marketing fail. Who knew there was no niche for that particular combination. 

 

Interesting new HAL survey came yesterday, mainly about amping up pool side activities and upselling just about everything that was part of the smaller older ship experience, but now become more prized on the larger, more impersonal ships. Priority this and that.

 

My own personal favorites among an almost horrifying list of new add-ons: Do we want attendants poolside to apply our sunscreen? Do we want a sunscreen boutique pool side?  Do we want butlers to unpack our suitcases? Do we want live music poolside?

 

HAL will lose as many as they gain when they tamper with their old and highly winning formula. Yet, they are an anonymous part of consolidated CCL financial reports, so none of us have the freedom to decide what works and what does not.

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 minute ago, OlsSalt said:

Gosh, a cruise line that is sedate and only offers great itineraries.  What a marketing fail. Who knew there was no niche for that particular combination. 

 

Interesting new HAL survey came yesterday, mainly about amping up pool side activities and upselling just about everything that was part of the smaller older ship experience, but now become more prized on the larger, more impersonal ships. Priority this and that.

 

My own personal favorites among an almost horrifying list of new add-ons: Do we want attendants poolside to apply our sunscreen? Do we want a sunscreen boutique pool side?  Do we want butlers to unpack our suitcases? Do we want live music poolside?

 

HAL will lose as many as they gain when they tamper with their old and highly winning formula. Yet, they are an anonymous part of consolidated CCL financial reports, so none of us have the freedom to decide what works and what does not.

 

Seriously, they asked if we want attendants to apply our sunscreen?????????? I suppose, as a solo, I should find that helpful. But some how I, no, just don't. 

[eroller]

6 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

 

 

My own personal favorites among an almost horrifying list of new add-ons: Do we want attendants poolside to apply our sunscreen? Do we want a sunscreen boutique pool side?  Do we want butlers to unpack our suitcases? Do we want live music poolside?

 

 

 

OMG live music by the pool!!!??  On a cruise no less?   Yes truly horrifying. 🙄  What zany absurdities will they come up with next? 
 

You really do want a nursing home at sea.  Good luck with that.  

[*Miss G*]

1 minute ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

Seriously, they asked if we want attendants to apply our sunscreen?????????? I suppose, as a solo, I should find that helpful. But some how I, no, just don't. 

 

They used to have sunscreen butlers at the Ritz-Carlton.  That didn’t work out so well.  Maybe they’re better off researching why.  No idea what they’re thinking asking HAL customers about it.  Unless they think the singles with limited motion would like one?  🤷‍♀️

 

I hope they send me one of those surveys!

[cruisemom42]

12 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

HAL will lose as many as they gain when they tamper with their old and highly winning formula.

 

You seem determined not to acknowledge that HAL is losing many passengers NOW.

 

Ah well, it is futile to debate the point further...

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 minute ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

You seem determined not to acknowledge that HAL is losing many passengers NOW.

 

Ah well, it is futile to debate the point further...

 

I'd love to know if they track new vs return passengers. A hotel or cruise line has one chance to impress a new customer and turn them into a repeater. Maybe someone who is disappointed will give them a second chance. But a lot of people tend to be one and done if they don't like a product. If HAL is getting a lot of one and done bookings, they need to figure out a way to fix that. 

[OlsSalt]

6 minutes ago, eroller said:

 

OMG live music by the pool!!!??  On a cruise no less?   Yes truly horrifying. 🙄  What zany absurdities will they come up with next? 
 

You really do want a nursing home at sea.  Good luck with that.  

 

We did flee the main pool area on the Konigsdam due to the really obnoxious piped in music. And fled the aft pool area due to the smoke and noise from the constant bar machinery.

 

And asked to have the piped in music turned down at the Cabana (to the cheers of other cabana guests), from which we also finally fled due to letting six kids have a free run of this "adults only quiet retreat" spot (not the poolside cabanas, but the Crows Nest level cabanas.

 

Yes, some of us to revel in the sounds of silence, at sea. Which  is also my idea of heaven, if HAL ships are "God's waiting room" - so no reason to insult us old people. 

[OlsSalt]

5 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

I'd love to know if they track new vs return passengers. A hotel or cruise line has one chance to impress a new customer and turn them into a repeater. Maybe someone who is disappointed will give them a second chance. But a lot of people tend to be one and done if they don't like a product. If HAL is getting a lot of one and done bookings, they need to figure out a way to fix that. 

 

HAL has long been known as having the highest repeat passengers in the industry. Other cruise lines wonder, what is HAL's secret. Post-covid and with the addition of these new, larger builds, the past may not be prologue. We are HAL fans, but I doubt if we will ever sail their Pinnacle class again.

 

The mystery remains, does HAL carry its own weight, or does CLL need to carry HAL? Or in reverse, does CCL want HAL to subsidize some of its other brands?

 

CCL financials never disclose this since they offer only consolidated returns for the entire CCL brand. Not sure why some speak with such certainty about specific HAL finances and occupancy rates in this very first season after dropping all the "covid" restrictions.

 

Alaska is pretty much sold out. When HAL sticks to what they do best. How many others waited to cruise again, only after the "covid" restrictions were lifted.  

 

Might be too early to say anything definite about HAL's ability to fill (all) their ships.  Or compare the occupancy rates of the larger new ships which offer more limited and routine cruise options, when compared to the older smaller, more unique offerings which typically did run full.

[eroller]

4 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

We did flee the main pool area on the Konigsdam due to the really obnoxious piped in music. And fled the aft pool area due to the smoke and noise from the constant bar machinery.

 

And asked to have the piped in music turned down at the Cabana (to the cheers of other cabana guests), from which we also finally fled due to letting six kids have a free run of this "adults only quiet retreat" spot (not the poolside cabanas, but the Crows Nest level cabanas.

 

Yes, some of us to revel in the sounds of silence, at sea. Which  is also my idea of heaven, if HAL ships are "God's waiting room" - so no reason to insult us old people. 

 

There is nothing wrong with quiet.  There is also nothing wrong with a little live music poolside.  It’s called a balance and yes one ship can offer both.  A quiet adult pool and a more lively pool with some sets of live music.  The concept works remarkably well on a variety of cruise lines.  Likewise with entertainment and live music at night.  You don’t like it simply go to bed.  If you do then there are options.  

[eroller]

9 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

HAL has long been known as having the highest repeat passengers in the industry. Other cruise lines wonder, what is HAL's secret. Post-covid and with the addition of these new, larger builds, the past may not be prologue. We are HAL fans, but I doubt if we will ever sail their Pinnacle class again.

 

 

 

You’re joking right?  Either that or living in the dark ages.  No cruise line wonders what HAL’s secret is nor do you see any cruise company trying to emulate HAL.  Even HAL is not happy with its formula/image and is constantly trying to appeal to a broader audience.  The fact is most lines are grateful they don’t have the image problem of HAL, and HAL probably wishes they didn’t either.  
 

How many new ships does HAL have on order?  How many does Princess, Cunard, P&O, AIDA, Carnival, and Costa have?   There is your answer to which brands are performing best.  Is Carnival racing to reallocate tonnage from a sister brand to HAL?  Not to my knowledge.  They are with the Carnival brand.  The notion that HAL is subsiding other Carnival brands is wishful thinking at best.  They can barely fill their own ships without resorting to “priced to fill” rock bottom per diems.  Fact is they have offloaded as many HAL ships as they can to right-size the brand.  

Edited March 9, 2023 by eroller

[OlsSalt]

2 minutes ago, eroller said:

 

There is nothing wrong with quiet.  There is also nothing wrong with a little live music poolside.  It’s called a balance and yes one ship can offer both.  A quiet adult pool and a more lively pool with some sets of live music.  The concept works remarkably well on a variety of cruise lines.  Likewise with entertainment and live music at night.  You don’t like it simply go to bed.  If you do then there are options.  

 

ITA. Options are fine. As long as they are honored and enforced and not become what they have become - free for all at all venues. (Eg Konigsdam).

 

We spent time seeking out quiet places on the ship to get away from the constant noise ,even the Crows Nest had music piped in during the day which made quiet sitting and reading distracting.  

 

We found only one side room at the rear of the Crows Nest with no piped in music or turned down to be negligible.  And the Ocean Bar during the day time hours had no piped in music. But both of these locations were indoors. No quiet outdoor locations, with shade, comfortable seating or easy access to any dining amenities. 

 

Which underscores why "God's Waiting Room" HAL ships had appeal since they did attract a quieter more sedate passenger base, who collectively wanted to honor and maintain a certain quieter level of outdoor and indoor noise ....by chosen , personal  preference.

 

One will find zero to no enforcement of the current informally designated quieter zones -eg:  adults only aft pool.  So trying to find this balance between the two ends of the spectrum has not been successful ....to date.