Mafia style baggaging in Miami RCI terminal?

[Ret MP]

1 minute ago, ZoeyVictoria said:

I grew up long before backpacks were a thing and I am just too old (and uninterested) to try it now. I figure my carryon is going to take up the same amount of floor space whether it is next to me or in front of me, so I use it as a barrier to save my toes. 

LOL, being retired Active Army, I have been backpacking since 1970 in one way or another.  However, I was more worried about running over someone else's toes/feet and taking up too much room.  And as I've observed many people that roll their carry-on luggage, when they stop for whatever reason they keep the luggage at almost an arm's length away, and when in motion the luggage follows them at a greater distance behind them than a backpack does.  Being an old geezer of 71, I still don't have a problem putting on heavy backpacks though.  

[ZoeyVictoria]

19 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

LOL, being retired Active Army, I have been backpacking since 1970 in one way or another.  However, I was more worried about running over someone else's toes/feet and taking up too much room.  And as I've observed many people that roll their carry-on luggage, when they stop for whatever reason they keep the luggage at almost an arm's length away, and when in motion the luggage follows them at a greater distance behind them than a backpack does.  Being an old geezer of 71, I still don't have a problem putting on heavy backpacks though.  

I am just a few months behind you in geezerhood 😂. My SO has had back surgeries and should not be lifting luggage, so I handle all of it. As the weight got to be too much for me, we bought the lightest luggage we could find, multiple small pieces 24” and under.  We frequently use off-site parking and the shuttle drivers always comment on the low weight. Each piece has eight wheels, so it spins nicely. We also use luggage straps.  When we pick up our luggage in the terminal, I quickly remove one strap and use it to strap two matching pieces together, with the handles adjacent, making it very easy to push two at a time.  We have been skipping porters and just taking it on and off the ship ourselves if we have five pieces or less. 

[John&LaLa]

3 hours ago, Ret MP said:

On my last cruise, Independence OS, Oct-Nov 2022, in an effort to limit the amount of stuff that I hand carry on to the ship, I decided to use a backpack, first time for that, it had the backpack shoulder straps, a hand carry strap, and wheels with extending handle on it.  My intent was to carry my electronics and a few other things.  I also didn't want to push a bag around on wheels, taking up room, maybe even running over other people's feet.  So, I put it on my back.  I must admit, that was a big mistake, and wasn't thinking of others in tight spaces when I had to turn, especially in an elevator.  The first time I turned and realized that I almost hit someone on the shoulder or face with the backpack, I realized how unthoughtful and inconsiderate I was being.  So, I took it off when I got to a space where I had room to do so.  I figured it is better to MAYBE run into someone's feet than smack someone in the face with a backpack.  I'll never do that again, I'll just roll the backpack.    

 

I've worn mine forward on occasion, or just carry it

[linerode]

On 3/19/2023 at 9:56 AM, Charles4515 said:

Well almost. They are not Teamsters. The port workers are longshoreman. 

Unions have their place to make sure people are paid fairly and have a safe workplace, but allowing thugs to shake down customers should not be one of the approved activities of the union. It's too bad they have been allowed to have that power. 

[Ret MP]

15 hours ago, Pellaz said:

 

BINGO!   Tip the porters or not...but what that ILA supervisor did was extortion, plain and simple.  

 

This is incorrect.  The porters you drop your luggage with at the pier do NOT ever enter the ship; that is handled by ship's personnel.   All the porters do is put your luggage into the baggage cages and get it to the ocean-side of the terminal; on the way, some pieces will be X-rayed and some not. 

Ship's personnel take the luggage onboard the ship and into the "marshalling area." 

 

No reason why the OP shouldn't have posted the photos here, though.   Why not?  

What would be even better if the exchange had been recorded, either audio or video.  As I mentioned, it's extortion. 

 

 

As others have correctly stated, these are ILA union longshoremen.  Their average salary is north of $80,000...not including your tips.  

But yeah, Royal probably wouldn't want to touch it.  Not from any aversion to improving our guest experience, but because there is diddly-squat they can do about it.  It's not as if PortMiami (or any other cruise port) can suddenly decide "Hey, let's become a non-union right-to-work port."   It ain't happening.  

 

 

Again, this is incorrect.  The union longshoremen have nothing to do with onboard cabins or delivering your luggage to your stateroom; that is all handled by overworked ships' personnel.  Turnover day is always hectic for the crew. 

 

 

Correct.  While some longshoremen DO receive tips (from us), the majority do not, and the guys in the back of the terminal don't either.   It is not an industry "where tips are customary" as IRS defines it, whereas restaurant servers, etc. are.  

LOL

Being defined or designated as a "customary" tip position has nothing to do with paying tax on the income.  All income, regardless of where it is earned by U.S. residents, with only a few exceptions, is taxable and must be reported unless no payment is due or you elect not to file for a refund. However, if you want to get any overpayments back, you have to file a tax form (1040 of some type) to get a refund.

 

[Pellaz]

13 hours ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

This jumped out at me too.  Pictures of this really don't "tell a story".  You'd just end up with a he said/she said situation.  Video would have been MUCH more telling.

 

Or -- and here's a thought -- video and audio surveillance of the baggage collection area recorded by the terminal (i.e., the cruise line, or sometimes the municipality).  

1.  I don't think any such system is in place; I don't remember seeing any "cameras in use" signs in Miami in the arrivals area, and 

2.  I also suspect that such recording would be vigorously opposed by ILA and, on the West coast,  ILWU.  😉  

 

12 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

They don't enter the ship but they load the bags on to the ship. How do you think it gets onboard?  A forklift takes the cages to the loading dock or they push the cages. Or in some terminals it goes on a carousol which is run by the longshoreman. The ships personnel do not take the luggage onboard. Union rules. The crew takes charge of it after it is loaded on. The only other way to get bags onboard is if we carry it ourself. 

 

I believe this differs from what CruiseCritic's resident expert and retired Chief Engineer @chengkp75 has told us in the past.  Trust me, the "tipping the porters" topic has come up numerous times here on CC.   

 

In any event, though, the longshoremen in the "back of the house" (facing the ship, not us happy-tipping folks) doing all that work do not get tipped.  The customer-facing porters are the most senior union members and get the best job.  Ever notice that seldom, if ever, will your luggage get taken by anyone who looks younger than 40?  😄 

5 hours ago, Ret MP said:

LOL

Being defined or designated as a "customary" tip position has nothing to do with paying tax on the income.  All income, regardless of where it is earned by U.S. residents, with only a few exceptions, is taxable and must be reported unless no payment is due or you elect not to file for a refund. However, if you want to get any overpayments back, you have to file a tax form (1040 of some type) to get a refund.

Yes, thanks, "lol," as it happens I have some small experience with individual income taxes.  

What I meant was that IRS does not consider longshoremen or stevedores to be customarily tipped employees -- and indeed, the vast majority are not -- so those who DO get tipped could easily fly under the radar and underreport their income without much fear of detection or oversight...whereas restaurant servers, bell staff, delivery drivers aren't so lucky.   

 

-- signed, an IRS employee  (1989- )  

[chengkp75]

5 hours ago, Pellaz said:

I believe this differs from what CruiseCritic's resident expert and retired Chief Engineer @chengkp75 has told us in the past.

No, what the poster you quoted is correct.  The ship's crew do not touch the baggage until it is loaded onto the ship.  The longshoremen take the bags from you, place them into the carts, then through security, where the longshoreman driven forklifts take the carts to the ship and place them on the side port platforms.  The crew then wheel the carts into the ship.

 

And, technically, a "stevedore" owns the company that provides the "longshoremen" to load/unload ships.

[Ret MP]

11 hours ago, Pellaz said:

 

Or -- and here's a thought -- video and audio surveillance of the baggage collection area recorded by the terminal (i.e., the cruise line, or sometimes the municipality).  

1.  I don't think any such system is in place; I don't remember seeing any "cameras in use" signs in Miami in the arrivals area, and 

2.  I also suspect that such recording would be vigorously opposed by ILA and, on the West coast,  ILWU.  😉  

 

 

I believe this differs from what CruiseCritic's resident expert and retired Chief Engineer @chengkp75 has told us in the past.  Trust me, the "tipping the porters" topic has come up numerous times here on CC.   

 

In any event, though, the longshoremen in the "back of the house" (facing the ship, not us happy-tipping folks) doing all that work do not get tipped.  The customer-facing porters are the most senior union members and get the best job.  Ever notice that seldom, if ever, will your luggage get taken by anyone who looks younger than 40?  😄 

Yes, thanks, "lol," as it happens I have some small experience with individual income taxes.  

What I meant was that IRS does not consider longshoremen or stevedores to be customarily tipped employees -- and indeed, the vast majority are not -- so those who DO get tipped could easily fly under the radar and underreport their income without much fear of detection or oversight...whereas restaurant servers, bell staff, delivery drivers aren't so lucky.   

 

-- signed, an IRS employee  (1989- )  

And as an IRS employee, in which you don't state your expertise (I once worked on a NATO missile site.  Doesn't make me a missile expert.  However, I was a security expert.), you will agree, it is an INDIVIDUAL responsibility/covenant through the law, with the U.S. Government to report all income and pay taxes if any are due.  Correct?  If a none tip designated employee is receiving income as tips it is the individual's and only the individual's responsibility to report and pay taxes.  If they don't, they are in afoul of the law and should be detected and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, with 86,000 new agents to help with that.  Hell, we all have been reminded recently that crooks are responsible to pay taxes on everything they've stolen.  Also, think of Al Capone.  

[SG65CB]

Puerto Rico, Pan American pier, handlers were taking our bags. As the handler took our bags he said if we'd like to tip for service, please give it to that guy and pointed to an older man standing at a counter. They must pool the tips. Our bags were in the luggage bins before we even tipped. 

[Pellaz]

8 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

No, what the poster you quoted is correct.  The ship's crew do not touch the baggage until it is loaded onto the ship.  The longshoremen take the bags from you, place them into the carts, then through security, where the longshoreman driven forklifts take the carts to the ship and place them on the side port platforms.  The crew then wheel the carts into the ship.

I'm pretty sure that's what I said; the previous poster said that the longshoremen brought the luggage into the marshaling area onboard ("Deck 0" or "I-95"), which was incorrect.  

 

2 hours ago, Ret MP said:

And as an IRS employee, in which you don't state your expertise (I once worked on a NATO missile site.  Doesn't make me a missile expert.  However, I was a security expert.),

Gosh, I'm so sorry.  Ten years keeping businesses honest with the money they withhold from employees' paychecks, about fifteen years in Customer Service (individual taxes), and the remainder in Identity Theft Victims' Assistance as a technical lead. 

Is that sufficient for ya?

 

But, hey, thanks for your service.  

 

2 hours ago, Ret MP said:

you will agree, it is an INDIVIDUAL responsibility/covenant through the law, with the U.S. Government to report all income and pay taxes if any are due.  Correct?

Yep.  It's a principle called "voluntary compliance."

2 hours ago, Ret MP said:

If a none tip designated employee is receiving income as tips it is the individual's and only the individual's responsibility to report and pay taxes.  If they don't, they are in afoul of the law and should be detected and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law,

Of course.  

2 hours ago, Ret MP said:

with 86,000 new agents to help with that.

oh, lol.  If only that were truly the case.  It's not.

 

What we really need is a central computing mainframe made sometime during THIS century, instead of the early 70s.....but I digress.

 

2 hours ago, Ret MP said:

  Hell, we all have been reminded recently that crooks are responsible to pay taxes on everything they've stolen.  Also, think of Al Capone.  

 

Yep.  "Gross income includes all income, from whatever source derived..."   Title 26, S. 61, U.S. Code.  

 

[Ret MP]

13 minutes ago, Pellaz said:

I'm pretty sure that's what I said; the previous poster said that the longshoremen brought the luggage into the marshaling area onboard ("Deck 0" or "I-95"), which was incorrect.  

 

Gosh, I'm so sorry.  Ten years keeping businesses honest with the money they withhold from employees' paychecks, about fifteen years in Customer Service (individual taxes), and the remainder in Identity Theft Victims' Assistance as a technical lead. 

Is that sufficient for ya?

 

But, hey, thanks for your service.  

 

Yep.  It's a principle called "voluntary compliance."

Of course.  

oh, lol.  If only that were truly the case.  It's not.

 

What we really need is a central computing mainframe made sometime during THIS century, instead of the early 70s.....but I digress.

 

 

Yep.  "Gross income includes all income, from whatever source derived..."   Title 26, S. 61, U.S. Code.  

 

The good news, we are on the same sheet of music.

 

The 86,000 new agents are a political discussion if discussed any further.  So, I'll leave it at what it is.    

[Charles4515]

1 hour ago, Pellaz said:

I'm pretty sure that's what I said; the previous poster said that the longshoremen brought the luggage into the marshaling area onboard ("Deck 0" or "I-95"), which was incorrect.  

 

 

 

What I actually said was correct. You apparently are one of those types who can’t admit when they are wrong. 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Charles4515

[Ret MP]

I think post #77 would clarify what was said and what wasn't.  I think there is some confusion about the use of the term, "ONBOARD".  The Longshoremen don't board the ship and the ship's crew doesn't handle any cargo on land.  So, there is a natural area where they meet and exchange the material.

 

That's what I've observed!

 

[Charles4515]

28 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

I think post #77 would clarify what was said and what wasn't.

It is not really worth discussion or important, There are two choices, hand the bags over to the longshoreman or carry the bag on yourself. 

[Ret MP]

1 minute ago, Charles4515 said:

It is not really worth discussion or important, There are two choices, hand the bags over to the longshoreman or carry the bag on yourself. 

I just thought I'd help as there was some contention that I thought clarification may have helped, well until now.

[Charles4515]

7 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

I just thought I'd help as there was some contention that I thought clarification may have helped, well until now.

There does not any need to be any contention. If we want the bags on the ship there are only two choices. Leave them with the longshoreman or take them on ourselves. The technical details of what happens after handing them to the longshoreman do not matter. Whether to leave a tip or not to the longshoreman or not is a personal decision but we all know there can be direct intimidation or indirect, a concern our bags won't be loaded if we don't tip..

Edited March 21, 2023 by Charles4515

[Ret MP]

6 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

There does not any need to be any contention. If we want the bags on the ship there are only two choices. Leave them with the longshoreman or take them on ourselves. The technical details of what happens after handing them to the longshoreman do not matter. Whether to leave a tip or not to the longshoreman or not is a personal decision but we all know there can be direct intimidation or indirect, a concern our bags won't be loaded if we don't tip..

Sorry if I thought that this was contentious.  Silly me, what was I thinking:

 

[LobsterStalker]

On 3/19/2023 at 8:37 AM, Kbonner said:

1. yes guest service onboard, but no interest to pursue

2. ...together with the luggage that was taken hostage. Pictures available for RCI

You took pictures?... should have taken video for sure !

[LobsterStalker]

On 3/20/2023 at 12:44 PM, Charles4515 said:

I tip $5.

Per bag or per dropoff ?

[pcur]

I am SOOOO not in favor of being "strong-armed" into tipping.  However, my philosophy (well broadcasted here on CC for 20+ years) has never changed.

 

Anyone who helps me with my (then) 50 lb suitcase actually IS earning their tip.  Multiple bags per person?  YES, I think a helpful hand deserves a tip.  Also, YES, BOTH the shuttle driver and the porter at the pier.

 

Silly me, but I actually appreciate them helping me with the awkward, heavy stuff.

 

Now, I travel with a 22" expandable and an under-the-seat roller.  I still tip them to help me with my bags.  Before I abandoned my 26", 50-lb, monster suitcase, I remember last year getting out of a shuttle with it, and telling the porter at the pier, "You're the best thing I've seen all day!!  THANK YOU!! Here's some money for you!"  He laughed and thanked me.

[Ret MP]

6 hours ago, pcur said:

I am SOOOO not in favor of being "strong-armed" into tipping.  However, my philosophy (well broadcasted here on CC for 20+ years) has never changed.

 

Anyone who helps me with my (then) 50 lb suitcase actually IS earning their tip.  Multiple bags per person?  YES, I think a helpful hand deserves a tip.  Also, YES, BOTH the shuttle driver and the porter at the pier.

 

Silly me, but I actually appreciate them helping me with the awkward, heavy stuff.

 

Now, I travel with a 22" expandable and an under-the-seat roller.  I still tip them to help me with my bags.  Before I abandoned my 26", 50-lb, monster suitcase, I remember last year getting out of a shuttle with it, and telling the porter at the pier, "You're the best thing I've seen all day!!  THANK YOU!! Here's some money for you!"  He laughed and thanked me.

Well, you knocked that out of the park.  Good job.  

[Ocean Boy]

7 hours ago, pcur said:

I am SOOOO not in favor of being "strong-armed" into tipping.  However, my philosophy (well broadcasted here on CC for 20+ years) has never changed.

 

Anyone who helps me with my (then) 50 lb suitcase actually IS earning their tip.  Multiple bags per person?  YES, I think a helpful hand deserves a tip.  Also, YES, BOTH the shuttle driver and the porter at the pier.

 

Silly me, but I actually appreciate them helping me with the awkward, heavy stuff.

 

Now, I travel with a 22" expandable and an under-the-seat roller.  I still tip them to help me with my bags.  Before I abandoned my 26", 50-lb, monster suitcase, I remember last year getting out of a shuttle with it, and telling the porter at the pier, "You're the best thing I've seen all day!!  THANK YOU!! Here's some money for you!"  He laughed and thanked me.

That is great for you. I, on the other hand, am quite physically capable and I actually prefer doing some things myself. I'd be happy to place my luggage on the cart. Lifting the bag from the sidewalk and placing it on the cart after I have managed to get it from New England to the port is not all that much of a help to me.

[pcur]

32 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

That is great for you. I, on the other hand, am quite physically capable and I actually prefer doing some things myself. I'd be happy to place my luggage on the cart. Lifting the bag from the sidewalk and placing it on the cart after I have managed to get it from New England to the port is not all that much of a help to me.

I never said I was physically incapable.....lazy, maybe......tired of the damn thing schlepping along and weighing me down....definitely.

[Ocean Boy]

2 minutes ago, pcur said:

I never said I was physically incapable.....lazy, maybe......tired of the damn thing schlepping along and weighing me down....definitely.

I wasn't judging you. Just saying that I'm physically capable and prefer doing it myself.

[pcur]

2 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

I wasn't judging you. Just saying that I'm physically capable and prefer doing it myself.

Didn't feel you were being judgey, just clarifying it's more laziness than physical.........