Why haven't daily gratuities gone down?

[BennyandBo]

Everybody do their own thing. We're all gonna anyway. The end.

[Hoopster95]

1 minute ago, Ret MP said:

Anyway, I'm sorry I got involved in this thread.  It's rediculous.  

 

Words of wisdom. I need to listen to you.

Lurking for months with the very odd post and got drawn to this hot topic.

 

Just some backgournd... pre Covid, a very well known contributor to CC, ChengP75, is/was a cruise ship captain, and replied to us here on this forum often on legal matters, mechanics of a ship, regulatory matters, Panama Canal, etc when being discussed. He ran circles around those complaining about this "gratuity" and what it really meant, with proof, facts and figures. I do not have the energy to search for these threads.... especially these past two years with the re-launch of a new Cruise Critic Platform (pretty much destroyed all previous cruise reviews and searching for information). He also gave up responding to this topic.

 

Anyways, happy cruising. 

[molsonschooner]

3 hours ago, firefly333 said:

Why not say to yourself how happy you are gratuities havent gone up. Wages are increasing so it costs more to hire help.

 

once a day is plenty for me. 

gratuities did go up in the second half of last year

 

[Ret MP]

2 minutes ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

Words of wisdom. I need to listen to you.

Lurking for months with the very odd post and got drawn to this hot topic.

 

Just some backgournd... pre Covid, a very well known contributor to CC, ChengP75, is/was a cruise ship captain, and replied to us here on this forum often on legal matters, mechanics of a ship, regulatory matters, Panama Canal, etc when being discussed. He ran circles around those complaining about this "gratuity" and what it really meant, with proof, facts and figures. I do not have the energy to search for these threads.... especially these past two years with the re-launch of a new Cruise Critic Platform (pretty much destroyed all previous cruise reviews and searching for information). He also gave up responding to this topic.

 

Anyways, happy cruising. 

???????????? And none of that means anything to me or the thread.  But, thanks, I will enjoy my cruising and I'll be happy to pay a lot or a little to the tip norm.  I truly believe in my signature.  

[XLVIII]

1 hour ago, BennyandBo said:

"Other hotel services $7.00". LOL. Yeah, the salary Royal Caribbean wants us to pay, so they don't have to.

You’re going to pay for it whether it’s a Daily Service Charge or just in higher fares. All the cruise lines have billions of dollars in debt due to the pandemic. The money has to come from somewhere. 

[PhillyFan33579]

5 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Have removed mine for years, probably nearly a decade 

At least you have the guts to admit you have been screwing over crew members for a long time. 

[Ret MP]

11 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

At least you have the guts to admit you have been screwing over crew members for a long time. 

Just fruit for thought and @not-enough-cruising can speak for him/herself but I didn't read that he doesn't tip, he just doesn't do the auto tip feature.  But, of course, I could be wrong.

[3yorkies]

4 hours ago, BennyandBo said:

"Other hotel services $7.00". LOL. Yeah, the salary Royal Caribbean wants us to pay, so they don't have to.

Which is why I remove the gratuity and tip directly.   I tip those that I have direct contact with---cabin attendant, bartender, servers, waiter and assistant, and head waiter----not the people who do the laundry, any more than I do when I stay in a hotel.   By removing the gratuity and tipping in cash I know exactly who the tips are going to.   And I tip based on the service I receive.  Once I gave the assistant waiter more than the waiter because he was the better of the two and the one constantly coming and checking and making everything right.   If it is not a voluntary payment to someone you deal with directly, then it is not a tip---it is a service charge.   Since the once a day service, I have been on two ships.  On one I never saw the stateroom attendant, got one towel animal, got only two compasses, and got ice about every other day although I left a note asking for the compass and ice in the evening, not morning.   On the other one I had my room cleaned sometime midday, but still got the compass and ice every night while I was out and got 5 towel animals.   That second room steward got twice the tip that the other one received.   In both cases the room was cleaned adequately, but the second one went above and beyond and I rewarded that extra effort.  

[crazyank]

6 hours ago, Tippyton said:

Not an economist, but since most currencies are anchored on the dollar,

never mind, comment deleted

Edited May 8, 2023 by crazyank

[JupiterTwo]

6 hours ago, Ret MP said:

I don't know how accurate this is but it was posted on another cruise social media board.  As fare as their pay, ?????

 

 

It's accurate.

 

The suite concierge on the Allure gave me one of those cards two weeks ago. I seem to have misplaced mine.

[PWP-001]

6 hours ago, davekathy said:

Tough crowd. 

Actually it reminds me of a scuffle over lawn chairs when everybody has had one too many in the trailer park:  name calling, accusations, labor law experts, armchair attorneys.... 

 

Hands down favorite line  "How dirty are you?"

 

Remember to subscribe & hit the LIKE button

!

[PWP-001]

I posed my question for this thread because --while RCI appears to be doing everything they can think to enhance profitability and increase cash flows to service debt-- I feel in this case they have overlooked the guest.

 

Conceptually this is more than "Shrinkflation" in the grocery store:  the practice of keeping the price the same while reducing the size/amount of the product.

 

Yes, reducing housekeeping service while keeping the cruise fare constant is "Shrinkflation".  It's the "gratuity" that I question, should perhaps have been reduced.  No one should expect a substantial reduction, given only $3.05 is allocated to the room steward.

 

So perhaps reducing the gratuity from $16.00 to $15.00 didn't happen because it would have drawn attention to the distribution of that gratuity.  Why just a dollar cut?  Where's the rest?  Too much attention would be drawn where almost 44% goes:  $7.00 allocated to "Other Hotel Services"  That $7.00 on the Gratuities Breakdown is what is known in accounting as a "PLUG" as in "plugging the numbers."  aka fiction.

 

In simple terms, it's a labor cost surcharge (think fuel surcharge for an airline ticket)  As others have said, its RCI's way of making passengers pay for their labor expense.  It's similar what budget airlines do with ticket prices:  rock bottom, but then assessing a series of extra fees for baggage, seat assignments, meals. etc.

 

Reason this.... if, according to the official gratuities breakdown, a cabin steward receives $3.05 and they are now responsible for  more rooms, how many people really believe that the stewards will see an increase in their earnings?  I don't think they will.

[UNCFanatik]

Its easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled is all you need to know about people who think you should pay the same gratuity for half the service. They think have a savior complex about their tipping and just give the cruise lines a pass on their labor practices.

 

They think its more than reasonable to get charged an auto-gratuity of 18% just for a bartender to hand them a beer.

 

PT Barnum said it best....

[chengkp75]

9 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

However cruise ship crew sign a contract GUARANTEEING their wage, regardless off gratuity - not at all like land based service positions. 

Actually, they don't.  They sign a contract that stipulates that they will receive compensation that is a combination of fixed salary (very low) and DSC contributions.  They acknowledge that the DSC portion of their compensation is variable, based on performance.  The fixed salary is typically around $10-20/day, the vast bulk of their compensation coming from DSC.  The typical compensation for a cabin steward is in the $1400/month range, and the only thing guaranteed is that they will make the minimum wage allowed for all seafarers, $658/month.  If all DSC was removed by the passengers, and the fixed salary did not meet the $658 figure, that is the only time the cruise line has to step in and make up the balance to $658/month.

 

That's my one and done for this tip thread.

Edited May 8, 2023 by chengkp75

[PhillyFan33579]

5 hours ago, Ret MP said:

Just fruit for thought and @not-enough-cruising can speak for him/herself but I didn't read that he doesn't tip, he just doesn't do the auto tip feature.  But, of course, I could be wrong.

There are people behind the scenes that depend on tips to make a decent wage. When you remove gratuities, you are directly impacting these crew members because you can’t tip people you never see.  

[PWP-001]

I've read all the posts and there have been some interesting comments.

 

But there are some baseless arguments that were posed.

 

First, to apply USA wage standards and labor practices is erroneous.

 

"How the world works" is that every country is different.  Perhaps similar in some instances, but different.  Take France where labor laws require at a minimum 5 weeks vacation, while most have 6 to 10 weeks annually depending upon their profession.  Walmart employees... raise your hand if you get this?  Now raise them if you participate in SNAP.

 

We have to believe that RCI --as well as all the major lines-- in general, treat their employees fairly when it comes to compensation and care.  Otherwise American Journalists would write sensational stories we'd all know about.  [Remember, I said in general, specifically to AVOID opening this up to one-off situations which I'm sure are in the media and found on the internet.]

 

I speculate based upon experience that RCI has employee referral programs in place where employees are compensated for new hires that they recommended to apply.  Here "word of mouth" is paramount in attracting individuals to employment with the line.  Even without a referral program, at home employees talk about how they're treated, and probably most important is what the pay actually turns out to be.  If it wasn't ADEQUATE or DECENT by their standards -- which most likely differs from USA standards-- no one would sign up.

 

Now while employees may talk amongst themselves and say  "I'm guaranteed to make..."  in reality it's safe to say that RCI compensates employees "what they are contractually obligated to do."

 

To clarify a post here about "tip credits" as they are called in the USA.  For many years, employers were permitted to pay as $2.13 hourly to employees in "tipped positions" with the rationale that these tipped employees would earn hourly the difference between $2.13 and the minimum wage with the tips left by guests.  In theory, contrary to one posting here, IF the tipped employee did NOT collect tips sufficient to bring the wage up to minimum, the employer could NOT take the full tip credit and would be obligated to pay the employee at least the minimum wage.  In practice, it probably never happens.

 

In it certainly doesn't happen in Waffle House.  One needs to see more clearly through the grease to realize Waffle House is a smart and efficient MACHINE whose profit can be impressive.  That extends to the waitstaff:  let's just say that their personal accounting of their cash tips may also get lost in the haze.

 

However, those USA standards don't really apply to employee contracts onboard.  

[PWP-001]

22 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Actually, they don't.  They sign a contract that stipulates that they will receive compensation that is a combination of fixed salary (very low) and DSC contributions.  They acknowledge that the DSC portion of their compensation is variable, based on performance.  The fixed salary is typically around $10-20/day, the vast bulk of their compensation coming from DSC.  The typical compensation for a cabin steward is in the $1400/month range, and the only thing guaranteed is that they will make the minimum wage allowed for all seafarers, $658/month.  If all DSC was removed by the passengers, and the fixed salary did not meet the $658 figure, that is the only time the cruise line has to step in and make up the balance to $658/month.

 

That's my one and done for this tip thread.

 

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!

 

Someone posted here that you had stopped posting on this site.  And they also said, you're a reputable source, with which I whole heartedly agree!

[jean87510]

54 minutes ago, PWP-001 said:

I posed my question for this thread because --while RCI appears to be doing everything they can think to enhance profitability and increase cash flows to service debt-- I feel in this case they have overlooked the guest.

 

Conceptually this is more than "Shrinkflation" in the grocery store:  the practice of keeping the price the same while reducing the size/amount of the product.

 

Yes, reducing housekeeping service while keeping the cruise fare constant is "Shrinkflation".  It's the "gratuity" that I question, should perhaps have been reduced.  No one should expect a substantial reduction, given only $3.05 is allocated to the room steward.

 

So perhaps reducing the gratuity from $16.00 to $15.00 didn't happen because it would have drawn attention to the distribution of that gratuity.  Why just a dollar cut?  Where's the rest?  Too much attention would be drawn where almost 44% goes:  $7.00 allocated to "Other Hotel Services"  That $7.00 on the Gratuities Breakdown is what is known in accounting as a "PLUG" as in "plugging the numbers."  aka fiction.

 

In simple terms, it's a labor cost surcharge (think fuel surcharge for an airline ticket)  As others have said, its RCI's way of making passengers pay for their labor expense.  It's similar what budget airlines do with ticket prices:  rock bottom, but then assessing a series of extra fees for baggage, seat assignments, meals. etc.

 

Reason this.... if, according to the official gratuities breakdown, a cabin steward receives $3.05 and they are now responsible for  more rooms, how many people really believe that the stewards will see an increase in their earnings?  I don't think they will.

I have read this whole thread and find some posts interesting.  I was curious if you have searched for answers on other threads such as Reddit, Twitter or FB.  I find CC a bit predictable in the answer to this question as in I know what answers will be.

[not-enough-cruising]

28 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

There are people behind the scenes that depend on tips to make a decent wage. When you remove gratuities, you are directly impacting these crew members because you can’t tip people you never see.  

Not my problem 

[not-enough-cruising]

6 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

At least you have the guts to admit you have been screwing over crew members for a long time. 

No, I take very good care of those typically found in a tipped position. 

[not-enough-cruising]

49 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Actually, they don't.  They sign a contract that stipulates that they will receive compensation that is a combination of fixed salary (very low) and DSC contributions.  They acknowledge that the DSC portion of their compensation is variable, based on performance.  The fixed salary is typically around $10-20/day, the vast bulk of their compensation coming from DSC.  The typical compensation for a cabin steward is in the $1400/month range, and the only thing guaranteed is that they will make the minimum wage allowed for all seafarers, $658/month.  If all DSC was removed by the passengers, and the fixed salary did not meet the $658 figure, that is the only time the cruise line has to step in and make up the balance to $658/month.

 

That's my one and done for this tip thread.

Thank you for putting it much more eloquently than I could have. 
This is what I was trying to convey, there is a guaranteed component to the contract $658

[PhillyFan33579]

9 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Not my problem 

 
It’s not a problem because the overwhelming majority of cruisers are not cheap like you and don’t remove gratuities. If everyone was cheap like you, the cruise industry would likely collapse because people wouldn’t sign up to work on ships if they knew everyone removed gratuities, which makes up a significant portion of their compensation. 

[not-enough-cruising]

Just now, PhillyFan33579 said:

 
It’s not a problem because the overwhelming majority of cruisers are not cheap like you and don’t remove gratuities. If everyone was cheap like you, the cruise industry would likely collapse because people wouldn’t sign up to work on ships if they knew everyone removed gratuities, which makes up a significant portion of their compensation. 

OR……….if everyone removed their tips, the industry would tend to their own issues. 
 

Regardless, I think you are deluding yourself with the “overwhelming majority” comment. More people handle their business the way I do than you may think. 
 

One last point, ask any crew that’s worked the ships for more than a few years, nearly all will tell you, they prefer a cash tip system, just like tipped workers stateside. The upside is huge, and makes everyone responsible for their own success. 

[UNCFanatik]

8 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Not my problem 

 

I fully agree. I pay a published fare for a cruise. That alone helps employ the crew. 

 

The cruise lines that include a daily auto-gratuity could "fix" this issue if they wanted. But they choose not to. 

 

It is amazing to see all these savior complex people who claim to worry about all the crew and their well being but they could careless about the low wage and often times slave labor that is used to make the clothing on their backs. They could careless about the wages of the dishwasher at their favorite restaurants. Could careless about the industries that use immigrants and pay them unfair wages that produce the daily goods they consume. They could careless about all the problems surrounding the tip culture in the US, for example, that have created terrible workplaces for their employees. Racism, sexual harassment, discrimination, etc..etc..etc,,

 

Its only when these people go on vacation that they suddenly become altruistic and are ready to condemn others on the cruise that pay for the published fares that enable the cruise lines to operate in the first place 

 

But back to the OP. They are right. Cutting half of a service should result in lower gratuities. It is illogical to think otherwise. People are so ingrained in this tipping mentality and their savior complexes that they have lost all logic and reasoning. 

 

Save your gratuities. Give to a charity if you want to feel better about yourself. Otherwise you are just enabling unfair labor practices by the cruise lines

[BennyandBo]

8 hours ago, XLVIII said:

You’re going to pay for it whether it’s a Daily Service Charge or just in higher fares. All the cruise lines have billions of dollars in debt due to the pandemic. The money has to come from somewhere. 

There debt is not my problem.