Why haven't daily gratuities gone down?

[ONECRUISER]

5 hours ago, BND said:

"Reasonable"?  What do you consider reasonable?  Cruises 30 years ago weren't necessarily cheaper than today.  You have to look at today's dollars vs then.  I've seen posts by people who cruised in the 80's and 90's and paid as much as today.  Yes, they got more, but the cost of everything has gone up, from food to employees.  As people demand more things to do on cruise ships and they continue building floating amusement parks with Broadway shows, costs will continue to go up more on those ships.  Remember when a vacation was a once a year at most for most families?  Heck, when I was growing up, we only took one family vacation that wasn't to visit family in another state and that was to the beach with another family to share costs. I don't think that prices are going to go back to pre-pandemic prices.  Everytime people demand lower prices and get them, they then complain about what they're getting (or not getting anymore) for their money.

True, as I said in 1988 for 2 passengers on 7nite Cruise was $3800 in an Ocean view Cabin. Unless we have another 9/11 or CV shutdown situation prices will stay up, High as are now and Royal is still running pre-CV numbers running average of 108+ percent capacity. Without even taking Inflation into it now prices are about 1/4 that. 

Edited May 9, 2023 by ONECRUISER

[Ret MP]

6 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

Isn't that the point of ANY business?  Charge as much as the market allows for a product.  AND Royal is selling ships at 100%+ capacity.  So, please tell me, as a business owner, what are they doing wrong?

Yes, I know that wasn't aimed at me.  But, as usual, I have a thought:

 

Sustainability!  Can RCCL keep it up in the long run?  I don't know.  To be honest, I hope they don't keep it up.  I want the fairs to drop or become more economically level.  ALSO, I believe that people still have some money saved up from the great shutdown.  The saved disposable cash is being spent, now/still.  In any case, no matter what is keeping the ships at 100%+, I hope it isn't sustainable.  But, that's a selfish wish.  I like good/great value for my money.  But, I'm still sailing.

[Ocean Boy]

9 hours ago, Cru1s1ng2009 said:

we can only beat that dead horse for so long, LOL! 

That is why the tread has moved on from tipping to food quality.🙂

[markkw07]

🥱

 

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by markkw07

[S.A.M.J.R.]

1 hour ago, Ret MP said:

Yes, I know that wasn't aimed at me.  But, as usual, I have a thought:

 

Sustainability!  Can RCCL keep it up in the long run?  I don't know.  To be honest, I hope they don't keep it up.  I want the fairs to drop or become more economically level.  ALSO, I believe that people still have some money saved up from the great shutdown.  The saved disposable cash is being spent, now/still.  In any case, no matter what is keeping the ships at 100%+, I hope it isn't sustainable.  But, that's a selfish wish.  I like good/great value for my money.  But, I'm still sailing.

Believe it or not, I agree with you.  But, if they're getting enough inexperienced cruisers who don't know "how good it was" with twice a day service, or "how good" the food was, or whatever made cruising special "back in the day", there's a chance they will maintain.  Only time will tell.  

[George C]

If you want service twice a day book a suite 😁😁😁

[Ret MP]

1 minute ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

Believe it or not, I agree with you.  But, if they're getting enough inexperienced cruisers who don't know "how good it was" with twice a day service, or "how good" the food was, or whatever made cruising special "back in the day", there's a chance they will maintain.  Only time will tell.  

That is very true.  Ignorance is bliss when it involves a complex business like cruising.  But, I've always been told that in business the repeat customer is the best customer.  Again, I believe what is going on now is the pinned-up disposable cash coming out.  100%?  No.  

[Ret MP]

2 minutes ago, George C said:

If you want service twice a day book a suite 😁😁😁

My next cruise is.  But, I don't know about the next or the one I may take between now and then.  Probably not!

[kirtihk]

22 hours ago, Cru1s1ng2009 said:

i agree on this. I can eat french onion soup every night. but it isnt a deal breaker. but i am not everyone. 

I might feel differently once they limit bacon to every other day. 

I actually remember the bacon plate issue. Anyone else? 

French onion soup might be so much different from the best to horrible (including Regent and even Ponant - yes, Ponant - the French cruise line) - I tried dozens of variations, and only a few times it was a little better than average.

 

I prefer escargot every night (it was perfect on most cruises).

Edited May 9, 2023 by kirtihk

[PWP-001]

2 hours ago, bigque said:

A lot of businesses post pandemic have reduced manpower and have not been able to get back up to pre pandemic levels. It’s not just the cruise industry. Restaurants, department stores or whatever kind of business have not decreased their prices because they are short of help neither but no one ask why they haven’t decreased menu prices or whatever. These cruise lines still have boards they have to answer to and at the end of the day it’s all about the bottom line.  These room stewards are still working and having to do a lot more with less but people w. ant to be upset over having to give up 17 or 18 dollars a day which is spread around. 

The initial question in this topic was about a decrease in gratuity and never mentioned a decrease in cruise fare because of the housekeeping service cut.

 

Using your restaurant example, let's say a restaurant you've always patronized pre-COVID had great food and good, friendly service by an efficient waitstaff.  Now post-COVID, menu prices are up -- understandably due to food inflation which we all see.  But since they couldn't hire enough waitstaff, you now order and pay for your food and someone drops your food at the table.  Are you still leaving a 20% gratuity ?

 

Lastly, help me understand your comment about room stewards:  explain what you mean by "a lot more" and what you mean by "less"

[George C]

24 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

My next cruise is.  But, I don't know about the next or the one I may take between now and then.  Probably not!

Suites are very easy to get used to, love oasis class with costal kitchen ( we also get UDP)

[kirtihk]

28 minutes ago, George C said:

If you want service twice a day book a suite 😁😁😁

To pay a few extra thousands per person just for a bed’s cover to be removed?!  It’s better to get a few more cruises instead.

[Ret MP]

3 minutes ago, George C said:

Suites are very easy to get used to, love oasis class with costal kitchen ( we also get UDP)

LOL, if you spend thousands more on Star Class, you get the UDP included.  Oh, and the deluxe/unlimited beverage package, and laundry, and  ..................

 

Just kidding.  True but kidding.

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Ret MP

[George C]

54 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

LOL, if you spend thousands more on Star Class, you get the UDP included.  Oh, and the deluxe/unlimited beverage package, and laundry, and  ..................

 

Just kidding.  True but kidding.

 

I splurge on celebrity with there top suites on some cruises, did a royal suite in March, has those plus liquor setup you pick your favorite two liter bottles, since we do most of our drinking in bars we have a bottle of MacAllen in my liquor cabinet unopened 😁

[Cru1s1ng2009]

13 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

Seems a bit childish....

yeah, I really am. not gonna lie. 

[Cru1s1ng2009]

13 hours ago, Ret MP said:

Totally disagree.  But first, I am a good tipper, I tip extra a lot, and I've never removed or adjusted my auto tips.  

 

However, I do believe people should be able to remove a portion of their tips if they received less than excellent service or at least less than expected/customary.  I don't think making people mad just for the sake of making them mad is a civilized thing to do.  

I understand what you are saying. However, there are people who spend their lives looking for things to be wrong so they can tip less. They are usually ones who have never worked in the service industry. Having worked in it, I see it all the time. 

[Pandamonia]

13 hours ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

Isn't that the point of ANY business?  Charge as much as the market allows for a product.  AND Royal is selling ships at 100%+ capacity.  So, please tell me, as a business owner, what are they doing wrong?

 

What you find out eventually is what the market temporarily allowed suddenly becomes unacceptable and those new customers you thought you found with the big credit cards are suddenly gone and your loyal customer base who you screwed over for many years with crap food and 18% tips on everything have found a new place to spend their money. 

 

its happened before and it will happen again. 

[S.A.M.J.R.]

9 minutes ago, Pandamonia said:

 

What you find out eventually is what the market temporarily allowed suddenly becomes unacceptable and those new customers you thought you found with the big credit cards are suddenly gone and your loyal customer base who you screwed over for many years with crap food and 18% tips on everything have found a new place to spend their money. 

 

its happened before and it will happen again. 

And it may happen to Royal.  If they see their revenue slipping, they will either lower their charges or add benefits.  

[icsys]

On 5/7/2023 at 10:39 PM, PWP-001 said:

Give the service reduction to once a day room cleaning, why are we expected to tip the same?  

 

Previously I enjoyed having my bed made in the morning, fresh towels and a clean bathroom.  And then returning to my room in the evening to find fresh towels, a clean bathroom, my bed turned down, drapes drawn shut and a light bedside.

 

Royal isn't delivering all of those services anymore, so why should the gratuity not decrease?

 

Just returned from Symphony with the once a day room service with a choice of morning or evening.

 

We have always kept our room tidy and made the bed with twice a day service (can't stand an untidy room) but its a fair point that the attendant service has halved and the gratuity has recently increased.

Edited May 10, 2023 by icsys

[UNCFanatik]

6 minutes ago, icsys said:

 

Just returned from Symphony with the once a day room service with a choice of morning or evening.

 

We have always kept our room tidy and made the bed with twice a day service (can't stand an untidy room) but its a fair point that the attendant service has halved and the gratuity has recently increased.

 

of course, half the service would logically result in reduction of daily gratuity but people dont use logic in this discussion. They use emotion and they have been brainwashed/conditioned into the US tipping culture. Tipping is out of control in the US. Look at this article about being prompted for a tip on self service kiosk

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/customers-are-hesitant-to-tip-at-self-check-out-2023-5

 

Somehow people believe that its ok for companies to pay employees low wages and the customer is supposed to be guilted into supplementing wages for an employer when consuming their product through tips. 

 

Just look at the insults being hurled by the tipping crowd here...Loser...Criminal...Cheap, ect. 

 

Again, people could care less about the working conditions of the people who make other goods in their life like clothing and smart phones but all of a sudden put them on a cruise and their Savior complex kicks in and their moral superiority begins by berating others. They just overlook the cruise lines that engage in this practice and dont see anything wrong with that. NO, its the people that remove auto gratuities that are the issue. They are the losers, criminals, cheapskates that are taking food out of the behind the workers. 

[Ret MP]

3 hours ago, Cru1s1ng2009 said:

I understand what you are saying. However, there are people who spend their lives looking for things to be wrong so they can tip less. They are usually ones who have never worked in the service industry. Having worked in it, I see it all the time. 

Totally agree with the premise.  But, don't take away my options because of those people, is all I'm saying.

[UNCFanatik]

4 hours ago, Cru1s1ng2009 said:

I understand what you are saying. However, there are people who spend their lives looking for things to be wrong so they can tip less. They are usually ones who have never worked in the service industry. Having worked in it, I see it all the time. 

 

I worked in the restaurant industry for 10 years in back of the house roles. I understand the service industry. And in my time with restaurants, I have seen sexual harassment and discrimination against the servers on my team because of the tipping culture. I have also seen the attitude of servers that didnt work as hard because they relied that they were going to be tipped regardless of the level of the service they provided. I have seen servers ignore tables where customers didnt spend as much to focus on tables where people bought drinks and more expensive menu items. This is human nature but if I go to a restaurant and get the least expensive menu options, I should receive the same level of service as people who spend more. 

 

On a cruise, I shouldnt be forced to pay an 18% mandatory gratuity if I buy a drink. Tipping should be optional. If I pay near $8 a beer, I shouldnt have to bay 18% extra for an already overpriced item for a mandatory tip. 

 

Which brings us full circle, if service is cut, the daily auto-gratuity should be decreased as well. Any argument to the contrary is just based on emotion and not logic. 

[Ret MP]

39 minutes ago, UNCFanatik said:

 

I worked in the restaurant industry for 10 years in back of the house roles. I understand the service industry. And in my time with restaurants, I have seen sexual harassment and discrimination against the servers on my team because of the tipping culture. I have also seen the attitude of servers that didnt work as hard because they relied that they were going to be tipped regardless of the level of the service they provided. I have seen servers ignore tables where customers didnt spend as much to focus on tables where people bought drinks and more expensive menu items. This is human nature but if I go to a restaurant and get the least expensive menu options, I should receive the same level of service as people who spend more. And all of that is a "Management" issue, not a voluntary tipping issue.

 

On a cruise, I shouldnt be forced to pay an 18% mandatory gratuity if I buy a drink. Tipping should be optional. If I pay near $8 a beer, I shouldnt have to bay 18% extra for an already overpriced item for a mandatory tip. EDITED:  My mistake, I responded as if you were talking about the auto gratuity system not the per drink gratuity.  But, the servers aren't responsible for the cost of a beer.  

 

Which brings us full circle, if service is cut, the daily auto-gratuity should be decreased as well. Any argument to the contrary is just based on emotion and not logic. I personally don't disagree with that as long as you are talking about the cabin service, only. BTW, if you don't want to pay full gratiuty price for the cabin service, go to customer service and tell them that you want the portion of the gratuity that goes to the cabin service cut in half.  Problem solved, eh!

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Ret MP

[kruzgal]

There is not the same tipping culture in the UK and I really wish Royal Caribbean would recognise this and include the wages (which is what they are) within the advertised fare. In fact I think they should do this everywhere. The fact is that people who pay tips are subsidising those who remove them. Time to make everyone pay within the cruise fare and pay proper wages. You could then tip extra for good service if you get it. 

[Tree_skier]

On 5/9/2023 at 8:28 AM, BND said:

"Reasonable"?  What do you consider reasonable?  Cruises 30 years ago weren't necessarily cheaper than today.  You have to look at today's dollars vs then.  I've seen posts by people who cruised in the 80's and 90's

You don't have to go back to the 80's and 90's...  My first cruise was in 2007 on Serenade to Alaska and I paid $1600 for an interior cabin on deck 3.  

 

Today you can get an interior guarantee on Brilliance with the same itinerary and the same time of year for $2000.

 

That's not much of a price increase over 16 years.