To “Tip or Not to”

[duquephart]

52 minutes ago, Mrs Miggins said:

Sorry I thought you appeared to have very strong feelings on the subject as reflected in your post 18.  Now that we have re read the thread and especially Jim Avery's quote I still wonder what we should do.  

Therefore I wonder which of the options you choose ?

As I said in the UK the charge is included in the UK fare.

 

I have "strong feelings" about any entity that is not upfront in it's pricing. How many first time Viking customers are surprised/distressed to find out that they have not yet paid all that they are expected to pay? Viking would do well to asterisk their published fares.

Edited May 18, 2023 by duquephart

[duquephart]

2 minutes ago, pavementends said:

I intend to pay only the "recommended" gratuity until I am convinced that not paying additional tips is grossly unfair.

 

Two reasons: (1) I want to make purchasing decisions based on a good idea of what something is going to cost and (2) the need to make many decisions about when and how to tip turns a vacation into something less than a vacation.

 

There are services I don't use almost entirely because of the complication and annoyance of tipping (take out delivery? No thanks).

 

Probably a good plan so long as you recognize that you are not paying a gratuity.

[jc522]

We weren't sure how the pot is split, but we were comfortable with the total amount. We did want to give a bigger portion of that to our cabin attendant, so we reduced the pot by 25% and gave that amount directly to him. I'd be surprised if the included tip does not go to the crew, but if that is the case we'll make another adjustment next time. I'll ask our Viking travel assistant before we go next year.

[duquephart]

2 minutes ago, jc522 said:

We weren't sure how the pot is split, but we were comfortable with the total amount. We did want to give a bigger portion of that to our cabin attendant, so we reduced the pot by 25% and gave that amount directly to him. I'd be surprised if the included tip does not go to the crew, but if that is the case we'll make another adjustment next time. I'll ask our Viking travel assistant before we go next year.

 

As I said up at the top, you will have the same luck asking your foot.

[KBs mum]

1 hour ago, Mrs Miggins said:

Sorry I thought you appeared to have very strong feelings on the subject as reflected in your post 18.  Now that we have re read the thread and especially Jim Avery's quote I still wonder what we should do.  

Therefore I wonder which of the options you choose ?

As I said in the UK the charge is included in the UK fare.

Gratuities are included, so we give it no further thought. 

We would tip for exceptional service, but certainly not routinely or for the expected basic good service. 

When ashore we tip as per the custom in that country

[Mitina]

7 hours ago, Mrs Miggins said:

 Just out of interest what do you do ?  Pay the suggested amount despite your knowledge, or tip individuals at the end of the cruise, or both ?

1 hour ago, Mrs Miggins said:

Therefore I wonder which of the options you choose ?

duquephart:  Mrs Miggins has asked twice and I'm curious too.  You have strong feelings about the issue.  Do you mind sharing what you do?

 

 

[duquephart]

We are very good tippers, and have always tipped stewards and favorite bartenders above and beyond. This is due, in part, to the fact that my wife:

     1. Is very American 

     2. Was a drunken sailor in a previous life

     3. Is in charge of tipping

[SailorPaulH]

On 5/17/2023 at 11:06 AM, deec said:

I thought the "pot money"  was deposited in a community employee fund that could be accessed by staff for "emergencies"  such as sick kids or having to unexpectedly fly home.  I really wish Viking would be forthcoming with the truth of where the money goes.  I am really considering having it removed from our bill and giving a bigger tip to cabin stewards.

 

How do you remove it from your bill?

 

From the Viking FAQ: "To save you worry over whom to tip and how much, we automatically add a discretionary hotel and dining charge of $17.00 USD per guest per day to your shipboard account, which appears on your final invoice at the end of your cruise." That is if you haven't pre-paid the gratuities before the cruise.

 

Also from the FAQ: "Please note this charge excludes bar gratuity; a 15% gratuity is automatically added to bar, beverage, wine and deck service tabs." I always took this to mean the cost of drinks (charged to your account or as part of the Silver Spirits package) included a gratuity, so I am not tipping bartenders from drink to drink.

 

I tipped our two cabin stewards extra at the end of our cruise last year (above our pre-paid gratuity charge). That seemed fair, appropriate and sufficient.

[duquephart]

31 minutes ago, duquephart said:

We are very good tippers, and have always tipped stewards and favorite bartenders above and beyond. This is due, in part, to the fact that my wife:

     1. Is very American 

     2. Was a drunken sailor in a previous life

     3. Is in charge of tipping

 

That said I would have no problem with anyone refusing to pay the "gratuities" (and hopefully tipping on his/her own) on the grounds that Viking refuses to account for what it does with the money. I don't think anyone needs to be upfront with a company that is not upfront with them.

[KathyA]

Well, I have to say that Jim Avery's post was an eye opener.  If Viking tells their employees that gratuities are included in their pay, then as I see it, they get no bigger paycheck whether or not you tip.  So I am tempted to take the suggested amount and give it directly to the staff that I interact with the most (adding to it for exceptional service), and having the gratuities removed from my bill.  DH and I have always tipped extra to our room stewards, waiters, and bartenders, as well as paying the billed gratuities.  But now I'm having second thoughts.

[LindaS272]

39 minutes ago, SailorPaulH said:

How do you remove it from your bill?

Don’t do pre-paid; and they tell you in a letter in your cabin a few days before disembarkation that they’ll charge it to your account unless you notify guest services before the last day of the cruise (or thereabouts). 

[Claudia444]

1 hour ago, LindaS272 said:

Don’t do pre-paid; and they tell you in a letter in your cabin a few days before disembarkation that they’ll charge it to your account unless you notify guest services before the last day of the cruise (or thereabouts). 

We were led to believe that it was mandatory long before we were on board . We received the notice a day or so ago the charge would be showing up. I will definitely rethink using Viking in the future. 

[phil1107]

We are unhappy with the amount of the auto-gratuity and the lack of transparency over how it is divided. So towards the end of our recent ocean cruise, we requested that guest service remove 100% of it from our account. They did this promptly without any further discussion.

 

We then proceeded to tip individual staff as we felt appropriate.

 

I understand that this penalizes some staff but if Viking were more transparent it would be easier for everyone.

[duquephart]

3 minutes ago, phil1107 said:

We are unhappy with the amount of the auto-gratuity and the lack of transparency over how it is divided. So towards the end of our recent ocean cruise, we requested that guest service remove 100% of it from our account. They did this promptly without any further discussion.

 

We then proceeded to tip individual staff as we felt appropriate.

 

I understand that this penalizes some staff but if Viking were more transparent it would be easier for everyone.

 

How does it penalize some staff if everyone is paid according to contractural agreement and "gratuities" are already figured in?

[aungrl]

39 minutes ago, phil1107 said:

We are unhappy with the amount of the auto-gratuity and the lack of transparency over how it is divided. So towards the end of our recent ocean cruise, we requested that guest service remove 100% of it from our account. They did this promptly without any further discussion.

 

We then proceeded to tip individual staff as we felt appropriate.

 

I understand that this penalizes some staff but if Viking were more transparent it would be easier for everyone.

But according to Jim's post in the earlier thread, it actually doesn't penalize anyone if you have the auto-fee removed.  This money doesn't go to the crew on any type of individual or group basis anyway.  

[lackcreativity]

1 hour ago, phil1107 said:

I understand that this penalizes some staff but if Viking were more transparent it would be easier for everyone.

I agree with the desire to have confirmation that our gratuities in one way or another go towards compensation for the staff. However, until I hear otherwise, I will continue to pay the "required" gratuities and sometimes tip extra for special service. Otherwise, too many people get left out: those who wash towels  and sheets, do dishes in the all the dining venues, work as sous chefs and line cooks and servers in all the restaurants. The people who keep the public restrooms so sparking clean and polish the floors while we sleep, run the lights and sound in the shows and lectures we attend, and do countless things I don't even recognize.

Edited May 18, 2023 by lackcreativity

[lackcreativity]

7 minutes ago, lackcreativity said:

Even if these gratuities do only go into Viking revenues and then contribute to employee wages that way, what happens if significant numbers of people begin to withhold the gratuities? My guess is that if that became a growing trend, then we would see corresponding increases in cruise fares.

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by lackcreativity

[CurlerRob]

I do not understand why people obsess over this topic. It is not unique to Viking - it happens on every cruise line (there are many) that applies a standard daily service charge, but allows pax to remove it.

 

On numerous other boards, pax with financial expertise have indicated that there are tax benefits to the cruise lines in operating this way - as long as the service charge is "discretionary", it is sheltered from being taxed in the same way as general revenue. In essence, it's a way to shield a portion of the cruise lines' revenue. Each cruise line uses a different marketing terminology to describe the same thing.

 

I don't believe that a cruise line has any responsibility to explain the inner workings of their compensation structure to me. How and how much they pay to attract and retain quality staff is their business, not mine. How the cruise line slices and dices the collection of their revenue is immaterial. My business is to make my personal evaluation of whether I received appropriate value for my overall cost, and whether I will continue with that line. 

 

As an analogy, few of us, if tipping waitstaff in a North American restaurant, would demand to know the split between front of house / back of house as a condition of tipping at all.

 

I do agree with posters that it's a service charge, plain and simple - no different from the one that lands on my restaurant bill in some places, with the exception that I can remove it on the cruise lines. The marketing bumpf used by the lines is annoying and counterproductive.

 

I choose to treat the service charge as just a part of my fare - secure in my belief that if I don't pay it that way, economics will demand that I pay some other way. I would love to see it just buried in an increased fare - it seems it would ease some angst for a lot of folks. 🍺🥌

 

 

 

[Claudia444]

2 hours ago, CurlerRob said:

I do not understand why people obsess over this topic. It is not unique to Viking - it happens on every cruise line (there are many) that applies a standard daily service charge, but allows pax to remove it.

 

On numerous other boards, pax with financial expertise have indicated that there are tax benefits to the cruise lines in operating this way - as long as the service charge is "discretionary", it is sheltered from being taxed in the same way as general revenue. In essence, it's a way to shield a portion of the cruise lines' revenue. Each cruise line uses a different marketing terminology to describe the same thing.

 

I don't believe that a cruise line has any responsibility to explain the inner workings of their compensation structure to me. How and how much they pay to attract and retain quality staff is their business, not mine. How the cruise line slices and dices the collection of their revenue is immaterial. My business is to make my personal evaluation of whether I received appropriate value for my overall cost, and whether I will continue with that line. 

 

As an analogy, few of us, if tipping waitstaff in a North American restaurant, would demand to know the split between front of house / back of house as a condition of tipping at all.

 

I do agree with posters that it's a service charge, plain and simple - no different from the one that lands on my restaurant bill in some places, with the exception that I can remove it on the cruise lines. The marketing bumpf used by the lines is annoying and counterproductive.

 

I choose to treat the service charge as just a part of my fare - secure in my belief that if I don't pay it that way, economics will demand that I pay some other way. I would love to see it just buried in an increased fare - it seems it would ease some angst for a lot of folks. 🍺🥌

 

 

 

I appreciate your post. Do you chose to tip in addition to the included gratuities or do you have them remove the charge?

[duquephart]

7 hours ago, lackcreativity said:

I agree with the desire to have confirmation that our gratuities in one way or another go towards compensation for the staff. However, until I hear otherwise, I will continue to pay the "required" gratuities and sometimes tip extra for special service. Otherwise, too many people get left out: those who wash towels  and sheets, do dishes in the all the dining venues, work as sous chefs and line cooks and servers in all the restaurants. The people who keep the public restrooms so sparking clean and polish the floors while we sleep, run the lights and sound in the shows and lectures we attend, and do countless things I don't even recognize.

 

The "Head in the Sand" approach is what Viking hopes for - and relies on.

[duquephart]

4 hours ago, CurlerRob said:

I do not understand why people obsess over this topic. It is not unique to Viking - it happens on every cruise line (there are many) that applies a standard daily service charge, but allows pax to remove it.

 

On numerous other boards, pax with financial expertise have indicated that there are tax benefits to the cruise lines in operating this way - as long as the service charge is "discretionary", it is sheltered from being taxed in the same way as general revenue. In essence, it's a way to shield a portion of the cruise lines' revenue. Each cruise line uses a different marketing terminology to describe the same thing.

 

I don't believe that a cruise line has any responsibility to explain the inner workings of their compensation structure to me. How and how much they pay to attract and retain quality staff is their business, not mine. How the cruise line slices and dices the collection of their revenue is immaterial. My business is to make my personal evaluation of whether I received appropriate value for my overall cost, and whether I will continue with that line. 

 

As an analogy, few of us, if tipping waitstaff in a North American restaurant, would demand to know the split between front of house / back of house as a condition of tipping at all.

 

I do agree with posters that it's a service charge, plain and simple - no different from the one that lands on my restaurant bill in some places, with the exception that I can remove it on the cruise lines. The marketing bumpf used by the lines is annoying and counterproductive.

 

I choose to treat the service charge as just a part of my fare - secure in my belief that if I don't pay it that way, economics will demand that I pay some other way. I would love to see it just buried in an increased fare - it seems it would ease some angst for a lot of folks. 🍺🥌

 

 

 

 

Ah yes ----- the "Everybody does it" defense. As soon as they start calling it a service charge/fee, which is what it is, I think folks will be more inclined to let things be. They can accept it or not accept it rather than being fooled by a corporate entity. I think the deception/dishonesty of the company leading people to believe they are actually tipping the service staff is where the trouble starts. "Gratuity" is a buzz word that gets juices (particularly American juices) flowing. We like to tip and constantly seek out additional opportunities to do so - the psychologists probably have a term for this - and Viking (and others, Viking did not invent this) is aware of this phenonema. Calling it a fee/charge simply would not work as well. The deceptions other lines employ get pretty creative - "Staff Appreciation" for example.

[Mrs Miggins]

Interestingly this topic spread to the Azamara  board (many like and use both companies) and it has been closed down by the Host Jazzbeau because Azamara say Leave your checkbook behind. All gratuities are included in your cruise fare.

 

[duquephart]

The bottom line here is: What are you OK with?

If you are OK with whatever they call it going into a fund which becomes part of the pay of all service staff fleetwide then you are OK with however that happens be it pre-paid "gratuities", a "gratuity" charge added to your bill at the end of a cruise, or included in the fare.

If you are not OK with the above system and wish to tip the people who actually provide the services you enjoy/appreciate on a particular cruise you must do so by reaching into your pocket.

You can do one or the other. Or both. Your call.

Edited May 19, 2023 by duquephart

[CurlerRob]

7 hours ago, Claudia444 said:

I appreciate your post. Do you chose to tip in addition to the included gratuities or do you have them remove the charge?

I have never asked a cruise line to remove the daily charge - as stated, I consider it part of my fare.

 

We sometimes provide additional personal gratuities for selected staff who have provided us with exceptional service, but it's not a blanket approach. 🍺🥌

[purpleally]

On 5/18/2023 at 1:46 PM, jc522 said:

We weren't sure how the pot is split, but we were comfortable with the total amount. We did want to give a bigger portion of that to our cabin attendant, so we reduced the pot by 25% and gave that amount directly to him. I'd be surprised if the included tip does not go to the crew, but if that is the case we'll make another adjustment next time. I'll ask our Viking travel assistant before we go next year.

Yeah, that’ll work. You think they are going to admit that money doesn’t go to the people directly ?