No more classical music?!

[YXU AC*SE]

7 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

 

As a former local elected official, we did tend to ignore orchestrated astro-turf letter writing campaigns.

 

Well played on orchestrated. Three bonus points awarded.    

 

I guess here is the commercial decision point for HAL:

 

You have a branded cost centre (recall well that Lincoln Centre is simply a filial marketing arrangement ...    the talent is scouted / sourced by RWS Entertainment Group) that performs in a space that could be revenue generating.   You have an audience of purists (hush y'all this is a recital) contra regular folk on vacation.   The purists sit in quiet non-revenue generating rapture (when compared to costs) and the regular folk are invited not to participate by lovingly-dispatched glares from the purists.   

 

You are a business manager whose rev versus cost centre is literally underwater catering to an audience of price-seekers who are [perceived to be] entirely allergic to incremental costs.  What should one do?   Scott. 

Edited July 4, 2023 by YXU AC*SE

[latebuyer]

I guess they could charge for it. 

[latebuyer]

Sttill my point to my point person at hal was that i would pay extra for a cruise with lincoln centre stage. HAL seems more expensive and they should do something to justify the price.

[ladyj1138]

11 hours ago, YXU AC*SE said:

 

You mean 'Let's-astroturf-HAL-with-what-we-think' day ?     🙂.   Scott. 

Genuine letters with a personal story do not an astroturf campaign make. As a former elected official I can spot astroturf a mile away. Letters are a good start, genuine and over a couple of weeks is a possible path. 

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, YXU AC*SE said:

 

Well played on orchestrated. Three bonus points awarded.    

 

I guess here is the commercial decision point for HAL:

 

You have a branded cost centre (recall well that Lincoln Centre is simply a filial marketing arrangement ...    the talent is scouted / sourced by RWS Entertainment Group) that performs in a space that could be revenue generating.   You have an audience of purists (hush y'all this is a recital) contra regular folk on vacation.   The purists sit in quiet non-revenue generating rapture (when compared to costs) and the regular folk are invited not to participate by lovingly-dispatched glares from the purists.   

 

You are a business manager whose rev versus cost centre is literally underwater catering to an audience of price-seekers who are [perceived to be] entirely allergic to incremental costs.  What should one do?   Scott. 

 

I really doubt the audience at Lincoln Center wanted it to be non-revenue generating. It would have been nice to be able to have a drink while I listened, but HAL put LC in a space that didn't have a bar and they didn't bother to send bar waiters there to take drink orders. There was plenty of time before a performance to do that--people arrived early to get a seat, so during that time, beverage service would not have been an interruption. 

 

 

 

[Blackduck59]

I'm not sure why HAL pays royalties for these names.

BB King passed away 8 years ago, stop paying others to use his name. Now who gets the money for Rolling Stone? The band or the Magazine? Does it have to be "America's Test Kitchen"? (I realize that has been gone some time ago)

Is the demonstration kitchen still there? Use it, hire some no name chef with some personality who can make a fun show and also work in the galley; forget the "celebrity" chefs, most of them are nobs.

Ditch Lincoln Center, not the music. That being said I personally wouldn't miss "chamber" music on my cruise. I am disappointed to hear that they really aren't using the world stage for proper live performances. Somehow a BBC world documentary with "live" music doesn't interest me.

All any of us know for sure is that the "Entertainment" on HAL is in a state of flux and we will all have to wait and see what comes out in the end. Until then everyone has to decide to buy the product or not.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Blackduck59

[iceman93]

On 6/29/2023 at 9:38 PM, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

While I can understand the appeal of LCS for many, for me as an individual, I would much rather see HAL bring in a good jazz combo like days of yore, and/or have a band/singer focusing on standards and great American songbook with music from the 1920s-50s. This type of music/entertainment lends itself to a more social environment, where cocktails and conversation and couples/social dancing can flow. LCS is too much of a hush-hush, sit, watch and politely listen, but don’t speak or drink kind of event.

I know my opinion won't be popular in this thread, but I am not sad in the least to see the LCS go, or classical music completely from the HAL ships.  I do feel for those of you who have a different opinion, but this is one change that I'm perfectly fine with.

 

I guess I'm much more like AtlantaCruiser72, in that I'd rather enjoy a variety of great music that I can enjoy while still having a social time with others.

[CalGal254]

On 6/28/2023 at 6:05 PM, Lakesregion said:

Just one of the casualties of going to a more casual atmosphere. Do away with formality and you generally get a market base that does not appreciate classical music. There are costs to relaxing tradition and the loss of classical music appears to be one of them. Wait for the elimination of afternoon tea next.

Yes, on our cruise to Alaska last week on Volendam, there wasn't a single note of classical music.  So disappointing!!  We've always enjoyed that before dinner. We also booked for Eurodam next year, and the cruise consultant assured us there would be Lincoln Center on it, but apparently that was incorrect.  Also, there was afternoon tea only 3 times last week, and Royal Dutch Tea was gone completely.  I told my husband that probably by the next time we cruise, afternoon tea will be a thing of the past.  Sad! 😥

[RuthC]

55 minutes ago, Blackduck59 said:

Now who gets the money for Rolling Stone? The band or the Magazine? 

The magazine. The name of the lounge/group has nothing to do with the Rolling Stones band. 
Two totally different entities. 

[erdufylla]

1 hour ago, Blackduck59 said:

I'm not sure why HAL pays royalties for these names.

BB King passed away 8 years ago, stop paying others to use his name.

Part of this is that it’s the actual BB King club that holds the auditions and contracts out players to the ships. I’m not sure how involved HAL is in the selection process or who the players are actually contracted to / paid by — BB King Club or HAL. But while I’m sure the brand name is part of what they’re paying for, they’re also paying for what is essentially a third-party staffing agency that’s actually qualified to select good players. But it’s definitely not just that HAL is licensing the name only. (I believe this was the same way it operated for LCS players, as well.)

[OlsSalt]

"Revenue generation" could be the passengers themselves who do sign up, only because HAL ships still offer classical music.  

 

Unless they continue to fill the ships up with discounts,  kids cruise free and casino offers instead.  

 

Maybe a catchy new title - Classics with Champagne -- Pagnini with Prosecco  --- Bach with Booze --- Hayden with a Highball ---- Beethoven with Beer --- Shubert with Sherbert Slushes - Chopin with Rum and Coke.......... Classical  Ka-Ching

[OlsSalt]

The Classics Hour Cocktail Special.

[ExpatBride]

5 hours ago, iceman93 said:

I know my opinion won't be popular in this thread, but I am not sad in the least to see the LCS go, or classical music completely from the HAL ships.  I do feel for those of you who have a different opinion, but this is one change that I'm perfectly fine with.

 

I guess I'm much more like AtlantaCruiser72, in that I'd rather enjoy a variety of great music that I can enjoy while still having a social time with others.

So people who like classical music shouldn't have the opportunity to enjoy what they like? It doesn't have to be all classical all the time, but it seems like there's nothing even in the ballpark for people who enjoy classical music or even a mellow jazz trio.

Edited July 5, 2023 by ExpatBride

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

I really doubt the audience at Lincoln Center wanted it to be non-revenue generating. It would have been nice to be able to have a drink while I listened, but HAL put LC in a space that didn't have a bar and they didn't bother to send bar waiters there to take drink orders. There was plenty of time before a performance to do that--people arrived early to get a seat, so during that time, beverage service would not have been an interruption. 

 

 

 

 

On Westerdam, quite a few people would come into the space with glass in hand, having stopped by the bar first. So, not really taking anything away from revenue...

[3rdGenCunarder]

13 hours ago, iceman93 said:

I know my opinion won't be popular in this thread, but I am not sad in the least to see the LCS go, or classical music completely from the HAL ships.  I do feel for those of you who have a different opinion, but this is one change that I'm perfectly fine with.

 

I guess I'm much more like AtlantaCruiser72, in that I'd rather enjoy a variety of great music that I can enjoy while still having a social time with others.

 

And you've got it. Nobody is going to give you a glare or say "shh!" at BBKing, Rolling Stone, or Billboard. And it looks like HAL is going to keep these venues in various combinations, depending on the ship.

 

But some of us want a different experience than that. Now that LC is gone, I don't know what I will do in the evenings on my cruise this winter. I'm tired of Step One and that seems to be the only mainstage entertainment. I have little faith that LC will be rotating on my ship--or on any ship, frankly. I think the rotation scheme is a way for them to quietly disappear. Has anyone seen Cantare on a recent cruise, or has HAL quietly dropped them?  There seems to be an added jazz combo, but that isn't certain for all ships. 

[SilvertoGold]

17 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

And you've got it. Nobody is going to give you a glare or say "shh!" at BBKing, Rolling Stone, or Billboard. And it looks like HAL is going to keep these venues in various combinations, depending on the ship.

 

But some of us want a different experience than that. Now that LC is gone, I don't know what I will do in the evenings on my cruise this winter. I'm tired of Step One and that seems to be the only mainstage entertainment. I have little faith that LC will be rotating on my ship--or on any ship, frankly. I think the rotation scheme is a way for them to quietly disappear. Has anyone seen Cantare on a recent cruise, or has HAL quietly dropped them?  There seems to be an added jazz combo, but that isn't certain for all ships. 

Cantare in March on the Noordam.  Excellent, well-attended.  Also, over the 39 days the RKs Vintage Band (outstanding) and rock violin performer. A few other music performers, comedians, BBC films and Ocean Bar band (Happy Hour was packed there and in the CN - 50% off any drink)

[JAVERZ]

 

This is the explanation I received from the Office of the President in response to my letter asking about the fate of Lincoln Center.

 

"We contacted our Vice President of Entertainment and he has advised us of what has become of the Lincoln Center Stage productions.  The resident ensembles of 'Lincoln Center Stage' occupying the space formerly known as the Explorers Lounge on an almost nightly basis are no more, as this space was underutilized.  For the remainder of 2023, we will be touring a 5 piece group under the banner of 'Lincoln Center Presents' that will appear on the World Stage as part of the evening entertainment program on a few nights of the cruise.

 

As such, we will have a resident classical trio on Zuiderdam's Grand World Voyage, although not under the Lincoln Center Stage brand.  We'll feature a resident classical ensemble on all Grand & Legendary cruises starting in 2024."

 

Interesting!

 

 

 

[latebuyer]

The space certainly wasn’t under utilized on ship i was on. It was packed.

[OlsSalt]

Should have branded this as Cocktails with the Classics, with special music-themed drinks of the day. 

 

Under-utilized obviously  means under-performing revenue wise. No open, quiet space is ever under-utilized because that is its primary intent - just knowing there is at least one quiet underutilized space on board one can go to during the day, is priceless.

[taxmantoo]

29 minutes ago, latebuyer said:

The space certainly wasn’t under utilized on ship i was on. It was packed.

For forty five minutes every twenty four hours?

[latebuyer]

It was packed in the evening when concert was offered. Nothing was stopping them from using space for something else during the day.

[Hlitner]

43 minutes ago, taxmantoo said:

For forty five minutes every twenty four hours?

So now its utilized zero minutes every twenty-four hours?  Your logic is strange.  It is like saying, the Production Shows are not well attended.....(because they have NO production shows.  or ....The MDR is underutilized for lunch (on port days) because it is NOT OPEN.

 

Speaking of MDRs being open on port days, one place this does happen is in MSCs Yacht Club.  We were surprised that the dedicated restaurant was open for lunch on most port days.  When I asked about this terrific service the Maitre'd simply replied, "You are in the Yacht Club...so of course, we are open for all meals!  What a unique concept.

 

Hank

[3rdGenCunarder]

16 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

So now its utilized zero minutes every twenty-four hours?  Your logic is strange.  It is like saying, the Production Shows are not well attended.....(because they have NO production shows.  or ....The MDR is underutilized for lunch (on port days) because it is NOT OPEN.

 

Speaking of MDRs being open on port days, one place this does happen is in MSCs Yacht Club.  We were surprised that the dedicated restaurant was open for lunch on most port days.  When I asked about this terrific service the Maitre'd simply replied, "You are in the Yacht Club...so of course, we are open for all meals!  What a unique concept.

 

Hank

 

HAL can spin their data plenty of ways to justify their decisions. 

 

I agree with @latebuyer, the space could have been put to use during the day. Oh wait, there is no need to use that space during the day because HAL has almost no daytime programming!

 

Not a unique concept. Cunard's Grills restaurants are open for lunch every day. But I can't complain about HAL not having the MDR open for lunch on port days. A lot of people do go off the ship for some part of the day. Instead of having the MDR open for lunch on port days, they should extend the time that the Lido is open for people who get back to the ship too late for the usual Lido hours.

[Guest ldtr]

6 hours ago, latebuyer said:

The space certainly wasn’t under utilized on ship i was on. It was packed.

3 performances per day, 6 days out of a 7 day cruise is not a lot of utilization even if packed for those performances.

 

That is the problem with the current entertainment on HAL. Music walk spaces are all optimized for the various named venues, and not good for general purpose activities. As a result they are all under utilized.

 

Their entertainment cabin space is consumed by those named group bands, reducing the cabins available for other more general entertainment. They basically put all of their entertainment eggs to the music walk basket.

[Guest ldtr]

5 hours ago, Hlitner said:

So now its utilized zero minutes every twenty-four hours?  Your logic is strange.  It is like saying, the Production Shows are not well attended.....(because they have NO production shows.  or ....The MDR is underutilized for lunch (on port days) because it is NOT OPEN.

 

Speaking of MDRs being open on port days, one place this does happen is in MSCs Yacht Club.  We were surprised that the dedicated restaurant was open for lunch on most port days.  When I asked about this terrific service the Maitre'd simply replied, "You are in the Yacht Club...so of course, we are open for all meals!  What a unique concept.

 

Hank

Sure those that pay for yacht club get treated nicely the large majority of the thousand on board MSC cannot make the same claim.

 

One of the biggest limitations a cruise ship face is crew quarter spaces. If they add crew for a given function, they have to reduce crew allocated to another. Easier to hide the limitation in a large ship, not so easy on a smaller ship. Premium and Luxury charge enough that they can get by with a few less paying cabins and allocate the  square feet to more crew space.

 

 Entertainers get better cabin allocations than waiters for example. One reason most lines put guest entertainers above the line in passenger cabins. Permanent entertainers are below the line in crew quarter.

 

 

When Celebrity went ship with in a ship the increased requirements in staffing there coincided with a smaller CD staff and some reduction in some of the public area staffing.

Edited July 14, 2023 by ldtr