Eliminating Butlers - Spoke to Celebrity. Here is conversation.

[alexandria]

7 minutes ago, billc23 said:

 

Cheese platter... Why not:  Caviar and Monopole Champagne delivered on request anytime on Silversea even in their lowest cost suite - not much different than current Sky Suite pricing. Sorry I don't have a complete picture of the entire afternoon snack setup. 

 

 

I understand from those who cruise on Seabourn that they do the same...and they'll bring it to you wherever on the ship you happen to be, whether it is in your suite or while lounging at the pool.  That level of service and quality is what is drawing us to Seabourn, Silversea and RSSC for future bookings, including our next sailing! 

 

[Dolebludger]

Sorry, my last Silversea cruise was in 2009, and I don’t think we had a “butler”with that title. But all service was great, as it is on Regent.

[billc23]

2 minutes ago, Dolebludger said:

Sorry, my last Silversea cruise was in 2009, and I don’t think we had a “butler”with that title. But all service was great, as it is on Regent.

They have upped their game and also include daily excursions that I have found superior to the paid ones on Celebrity. Smaller groups on the excursions and they don't bring you to cruise ship owned "shopping areas", not yet I should say now that RCI owns them.

[DaKahuna]

2 hours ago, billc23 said:

if the Butler is a deal breaker one could also upgrade to a suite with a Butler and hope that don't change too.

 

  Have you heard the term - 'good money chasing bad?' That is what comes to mind when anyone mentions "upgrading" whether through a purchase or the Move Up program.  

 

 We booked a Sky Suite for our May 2024 cruise in May of 2023.  Same ship we were on at the time and therefore expected to receive the same services and amenities.  That all changed in the fall of this year when Celebrity, without any discussion or notice, decided to reduce the services e.g. a human butler assigned to our room through which we could receive certain services. If the cruise was not an itinerary near and deal to my DW and my hearts I would have cancelled.  

 

 I plan to go on the cruise, try and use the 'butler team' to receive the same level and types of services I received on my last cruise and be very open with the Hotel Director and Retreat Manager about any and all issue I have.  

 

Who knows, since I am starting to get the impression from post on here than the major degradation is on the E-class ships and is not being felt as bad on the S-class and M-class we may get lucky and not notice any differences at all.  

 

[zitsky]

33 minutes ago, DaKahuna said:

 

  Have you heard the term - 'good money chasing bad?' That is what comes to mind when anyone mentions "upgrading" whether through a purchase or the Move Up program.  

 

 We booked a Sky Suite for our May 2024 cruise in May of 2023.  Same ship we were on at the time and therefore expected to receive the same services and amenities.  That all changed in the fall of this year when Celebrity, without any discussion or notice, decided to reduce the services e.g. a human butler assigned to our room through which we could receive certain services. If the cruise was not an itinerary near and deal to my DW and my hearts I would have cancelled.  

 

 I plan to go on the cruise, try and use the 'butler team' to receive the same level and types of services I received on my last cruise and be very open with the Hotel Director and Retreat Manager about any and all issue I have.  

 

Who knows, since I am starting to get the impression from post on here than the major degradation is on the E-class ships and is not being felt as bad on the S-class and M-class we may get lucky and not notice any differences at all.  

 

I think we all should be politely but firmly talking to the Hotel Director on our cruises.  With lots of feedback.  Whether or not somebody’s spouse is embarrassed about it.  Because a certain person paid for their cruise and expects to get what they paid for.**
 

**If you ever meet Dr. Zitsky ask him about his life story.  He just LOVES sharing personal information.  He is going on a cruise in a few days and he is SO excited to share many personal details with complete strangers.

[sixpackeddie]

2 hours ago, Joker54 said:

Sixpackeddie the EV is an amazing suite, which ship were you on? We had an EV on the Apex last April on a TA and the service was as expected.

 

since you posted a pick of the cheese and cracker plate the DW and I felt the need to share a pic of the cheese and cracker plate we got while in an SS on the Equinox this past October. Huge difference and somehow LBH thinks the Retreat Team concept is working well……. At least that is what she told me via email not long ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We were on the Edge, great experience. Our 2nd edge villa on that ship. Really didn’t notice a difference in the service. Doing a sky suite in March on the Apex and NOT expecting the same service as our past experiences in sky suites.

The cheese plates in the upper suites were really way too much. We didn’t have much of an appetite for dinner. 

[sixpackeddie]

1 hour ago, alexandria said:

 

I understand from those who cruise on Seabourn that they do the same...and they'll bring it to you wherever on the ship you happen to be, whether it is in your suite or while lounging at the pool.  That level of service and quality is what is drawing us to Seabourn, Silversea and RSSC for future bookings, including our next sailing! 

 

Wow, that looks great!

[Dolebludger]

1 hour ago, billc23 said:

They have upped their game and also include daily excursions that I have found superior to the paid ones on Celebrity. Smaller groups on the excursions and they don't bring you to cruise ship owned "shopping areas", not yet I should say now that RCI owns them.

 

[sixpackeddie]

1 hour ago, billc23 said:

 

Cheese platter... Why not:  Caviar and Monopole Champagne delivered on request anytime on Silversea even in their lowest cost suite - not much different than current Sky Suite pricing. Sorry I don't have a complete picture of the entire afternoon snack setup. 

 

 

 

 

Wow, will be checking out Silversea for sure. 

[Dolebludger]

1 hour ago, billc23 said:

They have upped their game and also include daily excursions that I have found superior to the paid ones on Celebrity. Smaller groups on the excursions and they don't bring you to cruise ship owned "shopping areas", not yet I should say now that RCI owns them.

Yes, Regent has had included shore excursions for several years.some are good and some are not. But we are booked on a Regent 7 night this March, and we also have a $1K room credit. And on Regent, the best place to spend that is on “premium” shore excursions, which cost extra. And on Regent, there aren’t  any “infomercials” about shore shopping.  It is a true “lux line”.  And now, it can be booked for less than an X SS!  I liked Celebrity when it was a lower cost alternative to Regent. It isn’t that anymore.

[Dolebludger]

21 minutes ago, sixpackeddie said:

Wow, that looks great!

 

[Dolebludger]

Yes sixpackeddie, on Regent, the room steward or the room service crew will bring you whatever you want. We just care that this is what happens. We don’t care if anybody has the title of “butler” or not. And on a real lux line, it does happen. It seems that in a line that is not a real lux line, it doesn’t,— even if the price is higher than on a real luxline.

[phoenix_dream]

9 hours ago, CruiseRQA said:

The buffet serves a purpose that 90% of passengers use at some point during a cruise.   A butler?   Purpose still baffles me and used by maybe 10% of the passengers.   If X figured out that resources directed at having a butler could be more efficiently used elsewhere, well, they made the right choice.   

So you think it's the right choice to sell someone experience A, and then decide later to reduce the value by delivering experience B?  Makes no difference if you personally use that service or not. If I paid for a car that was supposed to include, for example,  heated seats and Hyundai decided to eliminate that feature in my car, it doesn't matter if I live in Florida and don't or rarely use it. It's a service paid for, and therefore should be delivered.  Period. I don't understand how people can think that kind of bait and switch is ok. Maybe if they make a change on something you do actually use, after you bought and paid for it, you'll understand. 

[NMTraveller]

3 hours ago, zitsky said:

Would you like to go on your next celebrity cruise only to find your cabin has no bed because your contract says that Celebrity can change anything at any time?

Their plan is to replace the beds with hammocks...

[Dolebludger]

I think the point here is that if a cruise line uses obscure language in their “passage contract” (which is in such small print that I cannot read it)  to deprive customers of an advertised benefit when they paid for it, it is time for another cruise line. Cruise lines (and  airlines, hotels, resorts, and all travel providers) get away with murder because if obscure and unreadable contract provisions. Thus should not be!

[sn2792]

We were in a sky suite on Silhouette in November. We had great service. If we wanted anything, there is a number to call. We are pretty laid back and don’t really need much. We didn’t want any food in the afternoon or breakfast in our room. We were supplied with water and soda every day and ice. 
 

We book suites for room size, Luminae and retreat lounge. We don’t need the butler.

[The_Big_M]

21 hours ago, hcat said:

so  many of them could possibly cancel or downgrade..without losing too much!  If no Butler is a deal breaker

 

Sure they could. But I didn't view it as a deal breaker, as I didn't use them much.

 

However, in practice what I experienced was multiple deficiencies, and in some respects worse service than non-suite passengers. This is because non-suite have a standard process of communication long in place, which works. Whereas suite passengers rely on butlers for a lot of 'personalised' information.

 

However, with them gone, the retreat team is stretched and doesn't personalise, and was later with what they produced, and take a more reactive approach (and work limited hours), and the room attendant doesn't do that and is barely seen, given he's covering for two now, and the (head) butler doesn't get involved and... there's no-one else.

 

It's a lovely feeling to find out critical information from non-suite passengers. Then raise it with the concierge who tells you to come to them with any question. But I can't ask what I don't know about!

[zitsky]

3 hours ago, sn2792 said:

We were in a sky suite on Silhouette in November. We had great service. If we wanted anything, there is a number to call. We are pretty laid back and don’t really need much. We didn’t want any food in the afternoon or breakfast in our room. We were supplied with water and soda every day and ice. 
 

We book suites for room size, Luminae and retreat lounge. We don’t need the butler.

Are our standards for butlers so low that we get excited about ice delivery?

[The_Big_M]

19 hours ago, jelayne said:

That’s strange, the large plates were plentiful on the Edge last month, although they don’t seem to be at the salad, pizza or dessert stations.

 

They didn't seem plentiful to us. Seemed to be only one station that had them, and although it was kept stocked if you went to any other plate stack it was just mediums.

[The_Big_M]

19 hours ago, tfred said:

Looking at a 2019 X brochure, the term X uses is "Personal Butler available 24/7". Without wordsmithing it that would mean (to me) that a butler will be available to take care of you personally 

 

they don't say dedicated, sole use, etc.  What the service may have assumed to be is "my personal butler" but that isn't indicated in their language. 

 

That said, X should do a better job with the team concept if that is their method.  My thought that room centric requests should handled by the butler team.  Any other requests (specialty dining, excursions etc) are handled by the Retreat concierge. 

 

If it meant a shared butler, I doubt most would have an issue.

 

Right now it is no butler at all. They just [officially] kept availability of the head butler so they didn't raise a PR problem and risk of cancellations, but the head butler will not be visible to you. And if you call him, he will just pass the message on to your room attendant, room service or the retreat team. So you soon learn there is little point to call. (And even when I called to try escalating service issues on two occasions, he didn't even answer on one, so you realise there's little benefit to bother calling.)

[The_Big_M]

18 hours ago, CruiseRQA said:

The buffet serves a purpose that 90% of passengers use at some point during a cruise.   A butler?   Purpose still baffles me and used by maybe 10% of the passengers.   If X figured out that resources directed at having a butler could be more efficiently used elsewhere, well, they made the right choice.   

 

They didn't use the resources elsewhere. They just cut the costs to make more profit - but not for all suites. Hence there's still a need, but sky suites are now just having to make do... or not as the case may be.

[chisoxfan]

12 hours ago, billc23 said:

 

Cheese platter... Why not:  Caviar and Monopole Champagne delivered on request anytime on Silversea even in their lowest cost suite - not much different than current Sky Suite pricing. Sorry I don't have a complete picture of the entire afternoon snack setup. 

 

 

 

 

 

Impressive -at around 140 bucks a tin you could pay for your whole cruise ordering enough. I'd have Jeeves deliver twice a day.😁

 

 

[billc23]

10 hours ago, DaKahuna said:

 

  Have you heard the term - 'good money chasing bad?' That is what comes to mind when anyone mentions "upgrading" whether through a purchase or the Move Up program.  

 

 

 

Who knows, since I am starting to get the impression from post on here than the major degradation is on the E-class ships and is not being felt as bad on the S-class and M-class we may get lucky and not notice any differences at all.  

 

Yes I have, sunk costs and all that, but I do not think it is the correct way to look at this situation provided one still enjoys the Celebrity experience. The move up to a CS or, better yet, an upper suite, will still deliver the expected experience as long as Celebrity does not have additional cutbacks. If you lost confidence in Celebrity then I agree and would say either cancel or go on the cruise with lower expectations and see how it goes. If I lost confidence in Celebrity I would cancel and cut my losses rather than be dissatisfied. As I get older and life gets shorter I refuse to go into a situation that I feel I will not enjoy. 

 

I have sailed on the Edge in an upper suite a year ago and did not find the Retreat as welcoming as it is on the M or S class. The service level in my suite was great yet there was nothing special being in the Retreat area with 400 other passengers. I did not comment on it here because so many here stated that to experience the Retreat you need to be on an E- class ship. I will be giving the E class another try. I will be on the Ascent in January and have a RS and a PH booked. I am looking forward to it mainly because I am taking the grandkids. I also agree that the butler team may work better on the S and M class ships. 

 

Celebrity has created a hierarchy with many classes. Even the Retreat has at least three. Have you noticed when boarding that the upper suites are treated to differently? Special luggage handling by Celebrity employees who bring your luggage straight to your room who are not counting how many bottles of wine one brings on board. I see this as part of their marketing strategy. Make everyone feel special/superior... How many times have I listened to others, while having a pre dinner drink in a common area lounge, telling me how privileged they are to be in Aqua class and to be able to eat in Blu. Paint me green with envy as I tell them I'm pleased they are enjoying their cruise. It is not just Celebrity - I have sailed Princess where some passengers wear a pin showing their status! I begin to feel envious until I reach in my pocket and fondle mine. Celebrity uses different color cards to show room status and I guess black for Zenith. A little more subtle and refined as it should be.

 

The late Charlie Munger had a Shakespearian way with words  as he brilliantly stated: “It’s not greed that drives the world, but envy.”

 

 

 

[zitsky]

24 minutes ago, The_Big_M said:

 

If it meant a shared butler, I doubt most would have an issue.

 

Right now it is no butler at all. They just [officially] kept availability of the head butler so they didn't raise a PR problem and risk of cancellations, but the head butler will not be visible to you. And if you call him, he will just pass the message on to your room attendant, room service or the retreat team. So you soon learn there is little point to call. (And even when I called to try escalating service issues on two occasions, he didn't even answer on one, so you realise there's little benefit to bother calling.)

Did you ever call the Hotel Director?  I never have but until recently, Celebrity hadn’t promised something I paid for then took it away.

 

Edit: people keep telling us to find another cruise line.  I may shop around but I won’t book another NRD cruise.  My mistake to do a non refundable fare and a mistake to think I’ll get what I paid for.

 

Some of you say “upper suites are ok as long as X makes no more cuts in service”.

 

You have that in writing?  Oh wait.  🙄

Edited December 18, 2023 by zitsky

[TeeRick]

21 hours ago, terrydtx said:

Celebrity is more like Royalizing themselves. Look at what they did by adding 4, 5 and 6 night Caribbean cruises from Tampa and Port Canaveral, doesn't this sound more like RCL? We are Elite and very close to Elite + with our next two cruises, but loyalty levels do not mean anything anymore to Celebrity.

Terry- this is very much the truth.  I find no major difference anymore between Celebrity and RCCL - other than the ship size of course.  Celebrity is no longer a step above (IMO).  Our next two cruises are on RCCL in mid-level suites - so no butler (genie) - which I don't really care about.  But we have WiFi, Coastal Kitchen, Suite Lounge, etc.  With our D+ benefits we get plenty of included drinks even if we go out of the Suite Lounge, or go to the Diamond Club.  Gratuities are not included anymore for either line.  These suites on our next RCCL cruises are less expensive all-in than the lowest level Sky Suite on Celebrity.  So we have switched for now.  We are going on RCCL in non-vacation periods so not as many kids.  But we really don't mind the RCCL higher energy experience.  Others here will gasp at that of course!  Yeah we are still giving our money to Celebrity's parent corporation RGG.