Response from Princess to email re changes

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, oskidunker said:

The new basic rate includes a credit for excursions and a basic drink package which includes some decent wines by the glass.i like smaller ships. You dont have to show up a half hour early to get a seat in theater.there is usually not much wait to get in the dining room and food is much better than Princess.Thebuffett is much better. The specialty restaurants are free.  The i e cream is better. Service is better. They haveSommeliers which is  helpful. You do not have to walk a mile to find something on the ship.

 

But if you like Princess and it works for you, thats great. It doesn't work for us anymore hate the crowds. 

I also sail on Oceania (22 days in the next 12 months) and a number of other lines (36 days on Princess and  52 days on other lines) and will spend .a total of 110 days on various ships during the next 12 months, including some time on a 50 passenger ship around the Greek Islands.

 

You mean the fact that they have eliminated the ability to book without the beverage package and to remove the excursion credit that you used to be able to do.  Which now means that instead of being able to book a lower fare you are now locked into a higher fare.  I much preferred getting $400 dollars off the fare instead of getting $400 excursion credit just as an example.

 

Again you get some things and some things are better but you pay about about 2-3X per person per day more for those features depending upon cabin type.

 

Glad you like your choice.  

Edited August 21, 2023 by ldtr

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, c-boy said:

"As such Princess gets to see first hand if they projected correctly."

 

 so your saying we're part of an experiment ? 😄

Like with any other business you model to what you expect to happen with a change in pricing/policy then you measure to see how accurate the projection was and tweak it if the results were not as expected.

 

So yes pretty much any time you buy a product or service you are part of an experiment in capitalism.

[gilboman]

57 minutes ago, SCX22 said:

 

Those should only be done in desperate times.  The interest terms of a bond purchases cannot be refinanced unlike those of a traditional lender.

bonds can be redeemed by issuer, Carnival have been doing just that, they did it again less than a month ago for 1.2B in bonds that paid higher interest than what they need to pay presently 

 

Carnival Corporation & plc (NYSE/LSE: CCL; NYSE: CUK) today announced that Carnival Corporation (the "Company") will issue conditional notices of redemption for the entire outstanding principal amount of the $775 Million 10.500% second-priority senior secured notes due 2026 (the "2026 USD Second Lien Notes") and €425 Million 10.125% second-priority senior secured notes due 2026 (the "2026 Euro Second Lien Notes") to be redeemed on August 11, 2023 and August 12, 2023, respectively. The Company will use cash on hand to finance the redemptions and expects to save over $120 million in interest expense on an annualized basis. The $1.2 billion of redemptions will be conditioned on the closing of the Refinancing Transactions described below

[beg3yrs]

1 hour ago, SCX22 said:

 

Those should only be done in desperate times.  The interest terms of a bond purchases cannot be refinanced unlike those of a traditional lender.

Let's agree to disagree. Corporations and governments issue bonds all the time. Many bonds can be paid off early.

[suzyed]

On 8/20/2023 at 12:39 PM, rosevew said:

It'll depend on the package. I am annoyed as I have a 24 night cruise and only 2 X option on plus

That is exactly my objection to the change.  Those on a 7 day cruise get the same 2 meals. Just wrong.

[suzyed]

On 8/20/2023 at 3:19 PM, Tigrou said:

I've just re-read the last paragraph of the response you received from Princess, about it not being advertised as inclusive of casual dining, OceanNow and room service.  What complete bs!  It is STILL being advertised as including all 3, as can be seen in the screenshots.  And the screenshots show the date and they were taken, ie today, it's not that I took them before the changes.

Yeah, but it was when we booked it in February and it was when we made final payment in June.

 

[suzyed]

On 8/20/2023 at 3:12 PM, Tigrou said:

Another screenshot from the Princess website, current info for the 24-day Canada & USA cruise.  It's what comes up when you click on "What's Included", which is on the first page after you click on cruise details.  It clearly shows that the Princess Standard fare includes OceanNow and 24-hour room service, just as it did when I booked the cruise.

 

I feel sorry for the guest services staff who will have to deal with the fallout from passengers not being informed of the changes, and from those changes not having been 'grandfathered' in.

 

Don't you love how Princess corporate is leaving the onboard guest services people

to deal with the fallout from this.  We should have been grandfathered in.....
Hope they start hiring extra guest services agents now.

[Mike07]

4 minutes ago, suzyed said:

Don't you love how Princess corporate is leaving the onboard guest services people

to deal with the fallout from this.  We should have been grandfathered in.....
Hope they start hiring extra guest services agents now.

 

 

 

Yup. What makes matters worse is that pizza is stupid cheap to bake from a food cost perspective.

[memoak]

28 minutes ago, Mike07 said:

 

 

 

Yup. What makes matters worse is that pizza is stupid cheap to bake from a food cost perspective.

The cost of the pizza is not the issue it is the hour or more to get a seat in the pizza restaurants 

[Mike07]

5 minutes ago, memoak said:

The cost of the pizza is not the issue it is the hour or more to get a seat in the pizza restaurants 

 

 

Isn't that true in a lot of communal areas on a Princess ship tho? People sit down and camp out all day in some of the dining venues like Good Spirits, Vines, around the IC.

 

I get what you're saying, but Princess keeps packing more and more people into their ships and doesn't seem to be increasing public seating since they cannot charge for that... yet.

[memoak]

1 minute ago, Mike07 said:

 

 

Isn't that true in a lot of communal areas on a Princess ship tho? People sit down and camp out all day in some of the dining venues like Good Spirits, Vines, around the IC.

 

I get what you're saying, but Princess keeps packing more and more people into their ships and doesn't seem to be increasing public seating since they cannot charge for that... yet.

The pizzeria is not a communal area like the piazza. It is a sit down restaurant. You cannot walk in sit down and spend all day there. 

[JimmyVWine]

4 hours ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

I don't think that's right because, even on here and across all the related threads, there are probably only 20 or 30 posters who really seem 'outraged'.  I suspect that across the whole population of Princess cruisers, the overwhelming reaction to these changes will be a shrug of the shoulders.

This, exactly.  75% of passengers are getting on board with a Package.  To them these "enhancements" are a big yawn.  For the remaining 25%, only a small percentage of those will even be aware of the changes or care.  Raise your hand if you are outside of the Final Payment Date and plan to cancel your cruise because of these changes.  And for those of you inside of the Final Payment Date, how many of you would now cancel if Princess gave you that option due to the late-breaking changes?  Crickets.  Or as Shakespeare wrote: "...full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."  Princess is planning for the future, keeping up with its competition, and making adjustments on the fly as a result of a clear understaffing situation.  In trying to adjust, it can either hire more staff which would increase costs thereby decreasing revenue, or it can increase revenue by holding steady on staffing and implementing new fees.  Yes, this will anger some current customers.  But Princess understands mortality better than its guests.  Princess is trying very had to still be around 20 years from now.  A very high percentage of current Princess cruises will not be, no matter how hard they try.  

[Guest ldtr]

15 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

This, exactly.  75% of passengers are getting on board with a Package.  To them these "enhancements" are a big yawn.  For the remaining 25%, only a small percentage of those will even be aware of the changes or care.  Raise your hand if you are outside of the Final Payment Date and plan to cancel your cruise because of these changes.  And for those of you inside of the Final Payment Date, how many of you would now cancel if Princess gave you that option due to the late-breaking changes?  Crickets.  Or as Shakespeare wrote: "...full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."  Princess is planning for the future, keeping up with its competition, and making adjustments on the fly as a result of a clear understaffing situation.  In trying to adjust, it can either hire more staff which would increase costs thereby decreasing revenue, or it can increase revenue by holding steady on staffing and implementing new fees.  Yes, this will anger some current customers.  But Princess understands mortality better than its guests.  Princess is trying very had to still be around 20 years from now.  A very high percentage of current Princess cruises will not be, no matter how hard they try.  

Difficult to add more staff.  The max number of crew berths is a fixed number.  Adding more to one function usually means having to cut somewhere else.

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by ldtr

[oskidunker]

3 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

What would surprise me is getting a casino offer from Viking. 🙂

 

Yes

[JimmyVWine]

20 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Difficult to add more staff.  The max number of crew berths is a fixed number.  Adding more to one function usually means having to cut somewhere else.

 

I'm pretty sure that ships are staffed with fewer crew members than the ships sailed with in 2019 and January 2020.  Purely an observation of how many cabins the stewards were responsible for and how many tables the DR servers were attending to.  Seemed like fewer pool attendants and Buffet workers we saw.  But I don't know for sure. 

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, JimmyVWine said:

I'm pretty sure that ships are staffed with fewer crew members than the ships sailed with in 2019 and January 2020.  Purely an observation of how many cabins the stewards were responsible for and how many tables the DR servers were attending to.  Seemed like fewer pool attendants and Buffet workers we saw.  But I don't know for sure. 

At this time they are pretty much back at full staffing and crew on board. I raised that question during a recent MTL. About 4 weeks ago. The officer we were seated with said that they are mostly back to full staffing levels, the same as before the shutdown. Though he said some departments have a bit fewer and some a bit more. The total is back to pre shutdown.

 

He did indicate that there are a few more in training status.

[caribill]

55 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

I'm pretty sure that ships are staffed with fewer crew members than the ships sailed with in 2019 and January 2020.  Purely an observation of how many cabins the stewards were responsible for and how many tables the DR servers were attending to.  Seemed like fewer pool attendants and Buffet workers we saw.  But I don't know for sure. 

 

On a Princess cruise in June, a Customer Service employee new to the ship said he is in a passenger cabin because a crew cabin was not available. He did not know how much longer he would be in that cabin, but said he was enjoying it.

[caribill]

1 hour ago, JimmyVWine said:

 Princess is planning for the future, keeping up with its competition, and making adjustments on the fly as a result of a clear understaffing situation.  In trying to adjust, it can either hire more staff which would increase costs thereby decreasing revenue, or it can increase revenue by holding steady on staffing and implementing new fees. 

 

In other words, "We goofed, so you will pay to fix our screwup."

[tothemall&beyond]

20 hours ago, ldtr said:

The only ones I recall is when they first moved a ship to LA. In order to introduce the line on the west coast they did several 3 and 4 day trips. If you booked one you got your fare back as an fcc for a future cruise. It worked.

In 2013 and 2014, Princess was running many 3, 4 and 5 day Caribbean cruises on the Ruby (F/W 2013-2014) and on the Caribbean (F/W 2014-2015). They revived 4 and 5 day sailings on the Regal in F/W 2021-2022. 

[suzyed]

1 hour ago, JimmyVWine said:

This, exactly.  75% of passengers are getting on board with a Package.  To them these "enhancements" are a big yawn.  For the remaining 25%, only a small percentage of those will even be aware of the changes or care.  Raise your hand if you are outside of the Final Payment Date and plan to cancel your cruise because of these changes.  And for those of you inside of the Final Payment Date, how many of you would now cancel if Princess gave you that option due to the late-breaking changes?  Crickets.  Or as Shakespeare wrote: "...full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."  Princess is planning for the future, keeping up with its competition, and making adjustments on the fly as a result of a clear understaffing situation.  In trying to adjust, it can either hire more staff which would increase costs thereby decreasing revenue, or it can increase revenue by holding steady on staffing and implementing new fees.  Yes, this will anger some current customers.  But Princess understands mortality better than its guests.  Princess is trying very had to still be around 20 years from now.  A very high percentage of current Princess cruises will not be, no matter how hard they try.  

Obviously doesn't affect you.

[tothemall&beyond]

22 minutes ago, tothemall&beyond said:

In 2013 and 2014, Princess was running many 3, 4 and 5 day Caribbean cruises on the Ruby (F/W 2013-2014) and on the Caribbean (F/W 2014-2015). They revived 4 and 5 day sailings on the Regal in F/W 2021-2022. 

They also had 4 and 5 days cruises in late fall 2015 on the Emerald.

[ldubs]

4 minutes ago, suzyed said:

Obviously doesn't affect you.

 

I'm impacted to the point some things that were previously included now carry an extra charge.  However, overall my view is similar to @JimmyVWine's.  It will not dramatically change my enjoyment.  I am not at all agitated about these particular changes.  A sit down pizza meal in the Piazza now carries a fee.  I don't really cruise for pizza, but if I want a slice there are other no-fee places.  Room service and ordering by the medallion now carries fees.  The option is to either pay the new fees or bump up the cost of the package by, I think, $10/person/day.  The latter doesn't seem worth it to me.  I would go a la carte on these particular things if I wanted them, but other's mileage may vary.  

[Guest ldtr]

8 minutes ago, tothemall&beyond said:

They also had 4 and 5 days cruises in late fall 2015 on the Emerald.

 

33 minutes ago, tothemall&beyond said:

In 2013 and 2014, Princess was running many 3, 4 and 5 day Caribbean cruises on the Ruby (F/W 2013-2014) and on the Caribbean (F/W 2014-2015). They revived 4 and 5 day sailings on the Regal in F/W 2021-2022. 

Did not notice them,  we have not done the Caribbean in the last 10 years.  

though we are returning to the Caribbean in Feb mainly to visit Guadalupe.

[Hobbes67]

I understand the need for Princess to become profitable again, and will need to make changes to do this.  However, charging people in a suite for room service is wrong.  These people are paying twice what others are paying, and one of the benefits is that you can order from the main dining menu for room service.  Are you now telling us that they will have to pay for this benefit.  It seems that if you are Elite there very little perks for you anymore if you are not on a ship with a concierge lounge.  This is no different than if the airlines were to decide to charge their first class passengers for drinks and food.  All you would then get is a larger seat - for at least 2x the cost.  I don't believe that they would do this as they understand what first class means, Princess does not.

[BlerkOne]

Airlines are in the transportation business and business travelers are responsible to the majority of profits. There is no relation to cruise lines in the vacation business.

 

Has Elite lost laundry service or a stocked mini-bar? and not sure how that relates to suites?