Tipping....yes, again

[aborgman]

On 12/19/2023 at 8:35 AM, mz-s said:

 

The point of tipping was never to subsidize companies so they could cheap out on labor.

 

Correct - it was to promulgate a "Master-Serf" relationship with the poors and show how much better than them you were.

 

 

[aborgman]

On 12/19/2023 at 6:36 PM, ldubs said:

 

One other point to consider.  If it were mandated that all food and beverage workers were to be paid the minimum wage (Federal or state, whichever is more) and tips were eliminated, that would represent a salary cut for a significant number of people in those jobs.   So again, the question is how do we transition without hurting people filling those jobs.    

 

How about we just mandate everyone is paid the minimum wage... and let people tip or not as they see fit and don't worry about "eliminating" tips.

 

In most restaurants - labor costs are less than 1/3 of expenses.

Edited December 21, 2023 by aborgman

[john91498]

46 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

75% of servers in California make less than $40,000 per year in 2023.

The average salary in the USA was $60,000 in 2023.

 

Even in California - servers are not being paid extremely well.

 

That's going to change next April when the minimum wage will be $20 an hour, plus tips

[tonit964]

1 hour ago, john91498 said:

 

That's going to change next April when the minimum wage will be $20 an hour, plus tips

I think that is when we will see more and more AI take over many jobs. 

[aborgman]

1 hour ago, john91498 said:

 

That's going to change next April when the minimum wage will be $20 an hour, plus tips

 

It takes a full time job making $30 an hour to be an average salary in the USA.

[john91498]

16 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

It takes a full time job making $30 an hour to be an average salary in the USA.

 

Being a server was never meant to be a full time job. I did that when I was in college and after I graduated, I got a real job...

[carohs]

3 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

75% of servers in California make less than $40,000 per year in 2023.

The average salary in the USA was $60,000 in 2023.

 

Even in California - servers are not being paid extremely well.

Well...

You have to keep it mind that not all servers accurately report their tip income, which skews the results in the first place. I only worked at a chain but I witnessed servers more often than not underreporting their tips (knowing what I made in the same amount of time and they claimed less than half of that). 

Also in consideration is that most servers don't actually work 40 hour weeks. So the hourly wage they're earning is really good especially compared to working fast food or retail where those employees are unlikely to work 40 hour work weeks also (barring management). 

[john91498]

I don't think that person knows too much about the restaurant industry.

As you eloquently stated, most servers rarely work full time. Why? Because part time workers do not get benefits and the taxes are lower.

[n6uqqq]

On 12/2/2023 at 6:56 PM, Host Carolyn said:

There have been numerous discussions re tips here on Carnival this year. A quick search brought up these two rather lengthy ones that illustrate the many opinions on this rather hot topic. 

 

All the more reason to put a sticky on this thread and then allow no more tipping threads 😉 . 

[staceyglow]

5 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

75% of servers in California make less than $40,000 per year in 2023.

The average salary in the USA was $60,000 in 2023.

 

Even in California - servers are not being paid extremely well.

Are those servers working 40 hours a week?  If so, I would like to see the source of your information.

 

At $15.50/hour, a person working full time at minimum wage is making over $32K per year.  I find it very hard to believe the average full-time server in California is making less than $150 a week in tips.

[skridge]

3 hours ago, john91498 said:

 

Being a server was never meant to be a full time job. I did that when I was in college and after I graduated, I got a real job...

Many people in this country are servers for a living .  Saying it is not a real job is an extremely privileged position to take.

[john91498]

13 minutes ago, skridge said:

Many people in this country are servers for a living .  Saying it is not a real job is an extremely privileged position to take.

 

The vast majority of servers, this is just a temp job. Ever wonder why most servers are young?

Edited December 22, 2023 by john91498

[Elaine5715]

Wait staff in high end restaurants make a very good living even though the same cheapos think there is no difference in a Texas Roadhouse and a Peter Lugar.  Before online reservations were a thing, Maîtres at top Las Vegas restaurants cleared six figures

[ldubs]

7 hours ago, john91498 said:

 

That's going to change next April when the minimum wage will be $20 an hour, plus tips

 

That is for fast food restaurants where tipping is not common.   Other food service employees will have the same minimum wage as everyone else --  which goes to $16 next April, I think.   

Edited December 22, 2023 by ldubs

[ldubs]

3 hours ago, staceyglow said:

Are those servers working 40 hours a week?  If so, I would like to see the source of your information.

 

 

I'm pretty sure many if not most are not working 40 hours/week.  Even on a scheduled shift servers will be sent home if things are slow.   And of course, less than full time might mean few if any employer supported benefits.  

Edited December 22, 2023 by ldubs

[ldubs]

5 hours ago, carohs said:

Well...

You have to keep it mind that not all servers accurately report their tip income, which skews the results in the first place. I only worked at a chain but I witnessed servers more often than not underreporting their tips (knowing what I made in the same amount of time and they claimed less than half of that). 

Also in consideration is that most servers don't actually work 40 hour weeks. So the hourly wage they're earning is really good especially compared to working fast food or retail where those employees are unlikely to work 40 hour work weeks also (barring management). 

 

Any tipped employee that has been around knows exactly how much of cash tips to report.  

[ldubs]

8 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

How about we just mandate everyone is paid the minimum wage... and let people tip or not as they see fit and don't worry about "eliminating" tips.

 

In most restaurants - labor costs are less than 1/3 of expenses.

 

I would like to see the minimum hourly before tips.   My concern is if people then think tipping is no longer required, a whole lot of employees will experience a salary cut if they make only the minimum.  I would like it better if employers keep the employees whole, even if that means a price increase.  Then we drop the tipping expectation.   

 

I wonder if those labor costs include the amount contributed via tips to achieve the legal minimum wage. 

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, skridge said:

Many people in this country are servers for a living .  Saying it is not a real job is an extremely privileged position to take.

 

It is a real job for a lot of people.  When things are busy it is a hard job with crummy hours.  

 

[john91498]

2 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

That is for fast food restaurants where tipping is not common.   Other food service employees will have the same minimum wage as everyone else --  which goes to $16 next April, I think.   

 

I believe you're correct....

Edited December 22, 2023 by john91498

[aborgman]

6 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I would like to see the minimum hourly before tips.   My concern is if people then think tipping is no longer required, a whole lot of employees will experience a salary cut if they make only the minimum.  I would like it better if employers keep the employees whole, even if that means a price increase.  Then we drop the tipping expectation.   

 

I wonder if those labor costs include the amount contributed via tips to achieve the legal minimum wage. 

 

Those are the numbers for non-tipping restaurants.

[aborgman]

11 hours ago, carohs said:

Well...

You have to keep it mind that not all servers accurately report their tip income, which skews the results in the first place. I only worked at a chain but I witnessed servers more often than not underreporting their tips (knowing what I made in the same amount of time and they claimed less than half of that). 

Also in consideration is that most servers don't actually work 40 hour weeks. So the hourly wage they're earning is really good especially compared to working fast food or retail where those employees are unlikely to work 40 hour work weeks also (barring management). 

 

I'd call "really good wages" something like 150-200% of average.

 

So ~$90,000-$120,000 at the bottom end.

[aborgman]

15 hours ago, john91498 said:

 

 Ever wonder why most servers are young?

 

The average age of a server in the USA  is 30.

The average age of a waitress in the USA is 31.

 

20% of server are between 30-40 years of age

15% are over 40.

 

 

[MRVEGAS711]

On 12/22/2023 at 12:11 AM, ldubs said:

 

That is for fast food restaurants where tipping is not common.   Other food service employees will have the same minimum wage as everyone else --  which goes to $16 next April, I think.   

In Maine, servers make $7.50 per hour. Tipping is expected by the industry and the State to make up the rest of your wages. Hopefully the people in this thread avoid Maine or we'll all be living in Shelters.

[2wheelin]

On 12/21/2023 at 2:44 PM, aborgman said:

 

75% of servers in California make less than $40,000 per year in 2023.

The average salary in the USA was $60,000 in 2023.

 

Even in California - servers are not being paid extremely well.

 

On 12/21/2023 at 5:12 PM, aborgman said:

 

It takes a full time job making $30 an hour to be an average salary in the USA.

With the vast range of salaries, what does an average even mean? Cost of living certainly varies greatly across the US so comparing average US salary to an isolated area is meaningless. And comparing a college student restaurant worker to an aeronautics engineer is also meaningless. Even if you looked at median salaries it would be closer but still meaningless.

[aborgman]

On 12/27/2023 at 10:16 AM, 2wheelin said:

 

With the vast range of salaries, what does an average even mean?

 

What does an average even mean? It means a number expressing the central or typical value in a set of data, in particular the mode, median, or (most commonly) the mean, which is calculated by dividing the sum of the values in the set by their number.

 

"cost of living certainly varies greatly across the US so comparing average US salary to an isolated area is meaningless."

 

The lowest median income in the USA is Mississippi at about $45K/year.

If you aren't making more than the median income in the lowest paid state in the USA - you aren't being paid "extremely well".

 

"And comparing a college student restaurant worker..."

26% of restaurant employees are enrolled in school. 74% are not students at all.

Most restaurant workers are not students, and are not teens/early 20's.