Gratuities

[gmbhardy]

On 12/4/2023 at 11:06 PM, DebbieCruises said:

I was confused about the "Beverage Service" being included in this when I read it.  What does the 20% gratutity charge on the beverage package cover?  Are we expected to get our own drinks and the 20% is for the privilege of drinking their liquor? Sarcasm aside... I was stunned when I read that the night before we disembarked in a letter delivered from the concierge on our cruise on the Getaway in November.  I even took the letter to the service desk for further explanaton and was told that, of course, I should "just know I should always be tipping extra for every drink when it is served."😵

I find it hard to believe that guest services would tell you that you should always tip extra for every drink. I would demand an explanation from a senior officer.

[DebbieCruises]

4 minutes ago, gmbhardy said:

I find it hard to believe that guest services would tell you that you should always tip extra for every drink. I would demand an explanation from a senior officer.

I wanted to, but decided I need to cool down a bit before speaking to anyone else. I actually saved the letter.  My husband keeps telling me to just get over it, but geesh!! It's the principle of the thing.

[cruiser2015]

16 minutes ago, DebbieCruises said:

I wanted to, but decided I need to cool down a bit before speaking to anyone else. I actually saved the letter.  My husband keeps telling me to just get over it, but geesh!! It's the principle of the thing.

I agree with you.

Tell us why, NCL!

[slavetoabunny]

I am sailing in the Escape Haven on the 16th.  I am planning to tip the butler, concierge, room steward, and bar staff.  I am bringing thank you cards to write a personal message to include with the tip.

[PATRLR]

21 hours ago, cruiser2015 said:

However, remember that the genesis of the DSC is derived from the old tipping system for MDR waiters, bussers & room stewards.

3 hours ago, PartyPlannerLady said:

Thanks for sharing your hypothesis.

That was no "hypothesis", that is a fact.

[PATRLR]

3 hours ago, PartyPlannerLady said:

I refer you to the FAQ on NCLs page.

Cute.  Do you really want to go there?  Shall I refer you to NCL and WTH marketing material that  refers to the DSC as gratuities or tips?  

(In full disclosure I probably couldn't find current NCL marketing materials, but, they definitely used to do it in the not too distant past.  WTH affiliated agencies continue to do it to this day)

[DebbieCruises]

9 hours ago, cruiser2015 said:

A "SALE" may not always be a sale - at least the one you might hope for.

But, most likely, what you are observing is the result of cruise ships filling up - and the lines jacking up their prices to match the market activity.

Our cruise is not for another ten months, so probably not filling up too fast yet, but I get your point. I just was making the point that that NCL has an excellent marketing department and plays word games (quite successfully) to fool everyone into paying more and more and more and believing it's just the way way "it should be" by putting it in the FAQ page or frequent reposts. 

 

I know I'm kinda old and been sailing a long time, but when we started, we paid tips of $3.50 pp per day in little envelopes at the end of the cruise on the SS Norway.  Now we pay $20 pp (or $25 pp in the Haven) per day DSC, plus 20% for the beverage package, plus the 20% for the dining package charges.  Oh, yes, we always paid an extra $ or so tip for a drink plus the $3 or $4 charge for the drinks, as well as the extra tips paid to the room stewards and others, but now... we pay soooo much more for the cabin to begin with, as well as everything else and still they want us to pay more and more and more tips, gratuities, daily service charges, or whatever terminology they decide to use this year.  Yes, we do continue to tip, and we appreciate the service beyond measure or we wouldn't keep cruising, but it does make me wonder.  We love to cruise in spite of the fees.  I wonder what the next term they will use for tip/gratuity will be.  Let me get my thesaursus.

[cruiser2015]

2 hours ago, DebbieCruises said:

Our cruise is not for another ten months, so probably not filling up too fast yet, but I get your point. I just was making the point that that NCL has an excellent marketing department and plays word games (quite successfully) to fool everyone into paying more and more and more and believing it's just the way way "it should be" by putting it in the FAQ page or frequent reposts. 

 

I know I'm kinda old and been sailing a long time, but when we started, we paid tips of $3.50 pp per day in little envelopes at the end of the cruise on the SS Norway.  Now we pay $20 pp (or $25 pp in the Haven) per day DSC, plus 20% for the beverage package, plus the 20% for the dining package charges.  Oh, yes, we always paid an extra $ or so tip for a drink plus the $3 or $4 charge for the drinks, as well as the extra tips paid to the room stewards and others, but now... we pay soooo much more for the cabin to begin with, as well as everything else and still they want us to pay more and more and more tips, gratuities, daily service charges, or whatever terminology they decide to use this year.  Yes, we do continue to tip, and we appreciate the service beyond measure or we wouldn't keep cruising, but it does make me wonder.  We love to cruise in spite of the fees.  I wonder what the next term they will use for tip/gratuity will be.  Let me get my thesaursus.

You speak words of wisdom.

Those marketers may want to borrow your thesaurus.

Here's another one to chew on.

We're flying coast to coast next month to pick up our cruise. My DW talked me into going first class for that flight. Booked it last July after booking the cruise.

There are lots of empty seats right now, including 20 of 26 in first.

Coach dropped after the initial booking, but first is up 50% (has been this price for quite a while now. 

There are other flights, every 1-2 hours. All have similar pricing.

Where's the sense in that? And there's no funky marketing at work either.

[graphicguy]

On 12/4/2023 at 11:49 PM, DebbieCruises said:

I guess what threw me, was the fact that we had upgraded to the FAS Plus (for the first time), and had already paid the inflated... ahem... increased amount for additional tip money.  We were given the letter to remind us to give out extra tip money to the concierge, butler, and beverage service people the day before we disembarked.  (Oh, and yes, we had already tipped extra to those we thought had gone above and beyond during the week, but it just struck me wrong, to see the beverage service included, too.)  I know the butler and concierge do not benefit from the $25 daily service charge, but since when have the beverage servers been excluded?

They don't participate in the DSC as they do not offer services to anyone OUTSIDE of the Haven.  So, if you tipped them as you went along, no harm-no foul.  But, the Haven Concierges, Butlers, Bartenders and Waitstaff do not provide services to anyone but the Haven guestsl.  Some however don't know that and will utilize their services extensively and offer them nothing.  Their entire income is based on those tips.

[graphicguy]

11 hours ago, DebbieCruises said:

Our cruise is not for another ten months, so probably not filling up too fast yet, but I get your point. I just was making the point that that NCL has an excellent marketing department and plays word games (quite successfully) to fool everyone into paying more and more and more and believing it's just the way way "it should be" by putting it in the FAQ page or frequent reposts. 

 

I know I'm kinda old and been sailing a long time, but when we started, we paid tips of $3.50 pp per day in little envelopes at the end of the cruise on the SS Norway.  Now we pay $20 pp (or $25 pp in the Haven) per day DSC, plus 20% for the beverage package, plus the 20% for the dining package charges.  Oh, yes, we always paid an extra $ or so tip for a drink plus the $3 or $4 charge for the drinks, as well as the extra tips paid to the room stewards and others, but now... we pay soooo much more for the cabin to begin with, as well as everything else and still they want us to pay more and more and more tips, gratuities, daily service charges, or whatever terminology they decide to use this year.  Yes, we do continue to tip, and we appreciate the service beyond measure or we wouldn't keep cruising, but it does make me wonder.  We love to cruise in spite of the fees.  I wonder what the next term they will use for tip/gratuity will be.  Let me get my thesaursus.

Yeah...I remember the times of handing out greenbacks to every person we came in contact with.  I don't want to go back to that.  Seemed like I had to carry dollars in my shorts, my swim trunks, ny pants, my shirt pockets.  Nope.....don't want to go back to that.

 

Sales.....ya know....I look at all of the marketing jargon for ALL the cruise lines, and if you read between the lines, you know that the bottom line fare is really all that matters.  I ignore sales (actually, I ignore sales for ALL goods and services).

 

If you've cruised for a while you understand it.  Now, if I was a novice booking my first cruise, I'd enlist a TA to explain it all to me.  Point being, there are PCCs and TAs that will guide you through the fares, ships, itineraries, inclusions, exclusions, etc if you don't understand the pricing or sales.

Edited December 8, 2023 by graphicguy

[sanger727]

11 hours ago, DebbieCruises said:

Our cruise is not for another ten months, so probably not filling up too fast yet, but I get your point. I just was making the point that that NCL has an excellent marketing department and plays word games (quite successfully) to fool everyone into paying more and more and more and believing it's just the way way "it should be" by putting it in the FAQ page or frequent reposts. 

 

I know I'm kinda old and been sailing a long time, but when we started, we paid tips of $3.50 pp per day in little envelopes at the end of the cruise on the SS Norway.  Now we pay $20 pp (or $25 pp in the Haven) per day DSC, plus 20% for the beverage package, plus the 20% for the dining package charges.  Oh, yes, we always paid an extra $ or so tip for a drink plus the $3 or $4 charge for the drinks, as well as the extra tips paid to the room stewards and others, but now... we pay soooo much more for the cabin to begin with, as well as everything else and still they want us to pay more and more and more tips, gratuities, daily service charges, or whatever terminology they decide to use this year.  Yes, we do continue to tip, and we appreciate the service beyond measure or we wouldn't keep cruising, but it does make me wonder.  We love to cruise in spite of the fees.  I wonder what the next term they will use for tip/gratuity will be.  Let me get my thesaursus.

 

I guess this depends on when you started cruising. $3.50 in 1970 is equivalent to $27.75 now. Prices always go up. 

[DebbieCruises]

22 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

I guess this depends on when you started cruising. $3.50 in 1970 is equivalent to $27.75 now. Prices always go up. 

It was in the mid 1990's when we first started cruising on the SS Norway.  Should I say it! 🤔  oh, why not..  those were the days...aaahhhh!   😂🤣  But I still love it just as much now, too!!

[cruiseny4life]

26 minutes ago, DebbieCruises said:

It was in the mid 1990's when we first started cruising on the SS Norway.  Should I say it! 🤔  oh, why not..  those were the days...aaahhhh!   😂🤣  But I still love it just as much now, too!!

Someday, say in 2055 or 2060, I'm going to say this to a wee youngster starting on their cruise journey! 🙂 

[DebbieCruises]

29 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

Someday, say in 2055 or 2060, I'm going to say this to a wee youngster starting on their cruise journey! 🙂 

😍🤩🤭☺️

[JGmf]

On 12/7/2023 at 11:25 AM, graphicguy said:

A buck here for a particularly good bartender.  I little extra to my room steward.  A buck here and there to those who have made things a little easier for me?  Makes for a much more enjoyable cruise.

 

I know I'm happier than those who are constant curmudgeons complaining about everything and marching down to Customer Service to wait in a long line to remove tips over any real or perceived slight.

 

I already 'liked' @graphicguy's comment, but there should be another icon, for extra emphasize on how perfect this is.

[bonvoyagie]

We started cruising in 2002 and were lucky enough to have a great TA who showed us the ropes, and also got us upgraded to a suite, which also came with new expectations of tipping along with the DSC already being charged. We came back to our room on the last night to find three tip envelopes for the butler, concierge, and room steward- which was the only thing our TA had not covered. BTW back then there was a 15% gratuity on all drinks - so only having a 20% now is not all that much of a change - what did change is the drink prices - they doubled or more. 

 

I like and support the DSC system as it works like most restaurants where the wait staff have to split their tips with the hostess and back house staff. Some even go so far as to pool all the tips and divide them amongst the entire staff. 

[PATRLR]

8 hours ago, graphicguy said:

Yeah...I remember the times of handing out greenbacks to every person we came in contact with.  I don't want to go back to that.  Seemed like I had to carry dollars in my shorts, my swim trunks, ny pants, my shirt pockets.  Nope.....don't want to go back to that.

I agree 100%.  But, reading what people are writing on these boards and other places, I feel as if we are heading back to those days, and quickly.  Seems like people are talking about tipping just about everyone they come in contact with.  

I admit, I'm part of the problem.  I now tip bartenders/servers that I expect to frequent and I find myself tipping our room steward anytime I ask for something.  

Edited December 9, 2023 by PATRLR

[graphicguy]

38 minutes ago, PATRLR said:

I agree 100%.  But, reading what people are writing on these boards and other places, I feel as if we are heading back to those days, and quickly.  Seems like people are talking about tipping just about everyone they come in contact with.  

I admit, I'm part of the problem.  I now tip bartenders/servers that I expect to frequent and I find myself tipping our room steward anytime I ask for something.  

Yeah…I’m not tipping every single crew I talk to.  Nor do so tip anyone who offers the slightest service.  You bring prompt

complex drinks?  Special food requests?  Special cabin requests?  Etc?  OK!

 

[littlelulu01]

Haven passengers pay higher dsc because of the dedicated staff in the Haven. I just went back and read through ncl website.  crew that don’t participate in dsc are; any bartenders anywhere on the ship, spa services, youth club staff, concierge and butler.  Youth club staff, butler and concierge is paid depending upon how much we use so their grats are discretionary which makes sense.  
 

Spa staff and bartenders provide us products that have specific $ value so are assigned the 20% grats. So yes all bartenders onboard the ship are not benefiting from the dsc grats but they are most certainly benefiting from the gratuities we pay on the beverages and beverage packages.  
 

When I don’t have a beverage package and order a drink from the Haven bar the bill has the same 20% gratuities as all ship venues do. 
 

My understanding is the bartenders are not actually receiving all of the 20% charges on the drinks. If they did they’d be making more than the captain.  There’s a formula of compensation and the compensation goes up the more $ is made onboard each sailing. If a sailing is making $$$ then more will go to servers and bartenders. 
 

 Ncl says we are squaring crew away with our 20% on beverage, specialty dinners, spa and the dsc and We need to tip extra to kids club, butler and concierge as we see fit. Ncl has thousands of employees many of whom are long term.  They know a thing or two on how to retain employees so I trust they’re capable of dispersing my gratuities/dsc in a manner that is retaining their incredible crew. 
 

Outside butler and concierge we always have standout crew such as room stewards, the hostess or breakfast server, Starbucks barista … who goes out of their way to make our vacation better and we recognize the standouts with something additional towards the end of a sailing but otherwise I trust I’ve taken care of everyone onboard just as ncl says I have. Most people don’t want to walk around on vacation with wads of bulging cash to throw at everyone. I also don’t want to worry that I’m stiffing my servers if I don’t carry around wads of cash to every meal. Ncl thankfully has a compensation system in place to take the hassle out of it for me. 
 

I’m afraid Whoever is saying haven bartenders aren’t benefiting from the beverage gratuity/service charges and haven dining room wait staff don’t get any of the dsc is full of it.  If someone said that to me I’d tell them I’ll make sure and talk to the hotel director and mention that my bartender, “name” says he is not paid any of my 20% beverage gratuity/service fees and my haven waitress xxxx said she doesn’t get any of my dsc. 

 

 

[pete_coach]

On 12/5/2023 at 9:02 AM, DebbieCruises said:

You are right, of course. I was confusing the 20% gratuity with the DSC. I guess since we pre-pay the 20% gratuity, we are supposed to forget it has already been added. It's almost as if the servers might actually not get get that gratuity after all and that might be why they expect it to be paid at the time of service once again.🤔 Oh, but that's a whole other  discussion. 

Interesting take on this.

Cruises I have been on, the bartenders/servers also work elsewhere. I have seen bartenders /servers working breakfasts and lunches in the dining rooms and buffet.

Does that mean they get the DCS and the 20% on the drinks too??

[DebbieCruises]

3 minutes ago, pete_coach said:

Interesting take on this.

Cruises I have been on, the bartenders/servers also work elsewhere. I have seen bartenders /servers working breakfasts and lunches in the dining rooms and buffet.

Does that mean they get the DCS and the 20% on the drinks too??

Yes, they do on NCL, too. Someone said that Haven servers only work in the Haven, which is untrue. I have met and been served by the same people in the Haven restaurant in many other restaurants on the ship during the cruise. (The Haven bartenders I do think may be assigned only to the Haven bar though.) I have been told by several staff over the years that they do not receive any tip money from the DSC pool. Yet, I have always been reluctant to remove the DSC payment from our account. Maybe it's time to finally do that and just go back to handing out cash. My hesitation has always been the "behind the scenes" workers never getting their due. But it appears no one is but NCL Corporate anyway.😔

[Minnesota Rookie]

This topic got so long that I confess I didn't read all of the contributions, so I hope that I am not duplicating any of the former posts. But we had an interesting experience on an April 2023 cruise (for obvious reasons told below I don't want to identify it any more than that) with Norwegian this year. After having made something of a relationship with our room steward over the time I asked him on the last day whether he got a part of the huge tip package that we paid to Norwegian. He was very reluctant to answer and said that the staff had been told quite plainly by Norwegian that they would be fired if they revealed this information to customers. But because the steward trusted me a bit perhaps, he finally told me that no, they don't get any part of it. I found him credible and his reluctant answer believable. We tipped him personally and took a significant amount off our Norwegian gratuities. I believe it is possible, or even likely (without much more evidence than that single occasion), that Norwegian is actually using the so-called "gratuities" to pad their profit margin, not compensate their staff.  

[bluefish17]

On our recent cruise on the Viva in the Haven, one of the main bartenders at the Haven bar left every night around 8pm to go work in Syd Norman's Pour house. There was an excellent young female bartender who worked afternoons in the Haven pool deck bar but was at the Whiskey Bar in the evenings. I know because they had the 1792 full proof bourbon there but not in the Haven and she could make a great Old Fashioned!

[RocketMan275]

50 minutes ago, Minnesota Rookie said:

This topic got so long that I confess I didn't read all of the contributions, so I hope that I am not duplicating any of the former posts. But we had an interesting experience on an April 2023 cruise (for obvious reasons told below I don't want to identify it any more than that) with Norwegian this year. After having made something of a relationship with our room steward over the time I asked him on the last day whether he got a part of the huge tip package that we paid to Norwegian. He was very reluctant to answer and said that the staff had been told quite plainly by Norwegian that they would be fired if they revealed this information to customers. But because the steward trusted me a bit perhaps, he finally told me that no, they don't get any part of it. I found him credible and his reluctant answer believable. We tipped him personally and took a significant amount off our Norwegian gratuities. I believe it is possible, or even likely (without much more evidence than that single occasion), that Norwegian is actually using the so-called "gratuities" to pad their profit margin, not compensate their staff.  

 

The cruise lines have contracts with their crew that stipulate how the DSC will be distributed.  These contracts prevent the cruise lines from doing what you've reported.  

 

Some crew will tell you what they think you want to hear and what will increase your gratuities given directly to them. 

 

IOW, it's very probable that you've been played.

[Minnesota Rookie]

RocketMan:

Since you weren't there, of course, you had no way either of judging the credibility of the steward, nor of my ability to do so. I made it plain in my contribution that it was a matter of judging the steward's credibility whom we had come to know over longer than several weeks. The reasons I made that plain was that I knew that there was a chance that he could be playing me to increase his gratuity. I think Norwegian low-balls on initial price and then pads their profits significantly in two ways: by taking what they call gratuities for the bottom line, and by excessively charging for excursions, etc. I am a pretty good judge of character and of situation given my life and experiences as well as my expertise. What you think is irrelevant to me.