Service Issues

[graphicguy]

I always get a charge out of these types of posts.

 

It's like going to a land based restaurant and telling the manager you don't want to tip 20%.  It will probably go something like this....

 

"I only want to tip 10%"

"Sir/M'am was your server bad?"

"No"

"Was your food not to your liking?"

"It was fine"

"Then why did you even come here?"

 

If you don't see the value in the service charges...ON ANY CRUISE LINE....don't cruise them.  If you don't like the cruise lines' policies, don't cruise them.

 

You can whine about it, you can post here...but in the end, I question why you cruise knowing up front what the charges are and then whine enough to try to justify you punishing the crew by reducing their compensation?

 

You know the charges going into the cruise.  You want to change them after the fact for really no good reason other than you don't want to adhere to the cruise lines' policies.

 

These crew work hard...very hard....harder than probably anyone who is a guest ever worked.  So, is it a "power trip" thing?  Is it a "I have more money than you and I'll show you how to wield it" thing?

 

I have sailed NCL 15, soon to be 16, times.  Service issues have been very few and ver far in between. There was NEVER a service situation that I bought to the attention of management that wasn't rectified quickly and actually overcompensation for the small gaff was way over the top.

 

Further, I've seen people at the Customer Service desk removing/reducing tips.  They are without fail to be curmudgeons and people I try to avoid on board because of their overall attitude.  I don't want them brining my joy and happiness down even a smidgeon.

 

Finally, I HAVE NEVER seen any crew not offer to make whatever transgression (perceived or real) better.

 

 

Edited January 10 by graphicguy

[zqvol]

1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

I've found that a small $5 or $10 given to the hostess at the beginning of the cruise increases the quality of the seating offered.  Repeat two or three times during the cruise.

I have found that being friendly and polite works just as well as a cash donation

[RocketMan275]

21 minutes ago, zqvol said:

I have found that being friendly and polite works just as well as a cash donation

Both work but together they work better.

[cruiser2015]

1 hour ago, julig22 said:

I've seen a couple of theories as to why the DSC is a separate charge - and not just included in the staff salaries and overall cruise price.

 

First would be taxes - assuming there is a tax break for NCL and/or crew by doing it this way.

Second would be commissions to recruiters. I don't know if it's true or not, but I've read that crew may be hired through a 3rd party that gets paid a % of the crew salary. So a payment outside that contract wouldn't be commissioned. 

 

Just because someone says they never see it doesn't mean it's true. But only NCL knows how the DSC is actually used. Crew may be getting cash in their paycheck or they may be getting compensated in other ways. Considering how hard some crew members push for the "Vacation Hero" cards there must be something to that program.

I once saw what was supposed to be a paystub from a server - and they did indeed get "tips" according to the time they were working - although those would be gratuities, not DSC. 

First of all, taxes are not the issue.

Employees pay taxes based on their paycheck, including any indicated tips (often estimated by the employer).

If the company rolled DSC into the fare, it would simply be company revenue. There has been much discussion here about how it's distributed, as you may well know. The word is that some is direct compensation (paycheck- tips or otherwise, it matters not) plus other benefits in assorted forms. I merely repeat this information - I do not attest to it. Supposedly there is mention of the DSC in the labor contracts. The "other" benefits would not be taxed, as with fringe benefits (medical, pension, etc.)

Again, if it were a combined fare, NCL could still distribute any amount any way they like (salary or benefits) in any amounts they designate.

 

There is no way to know if "tips" noted on the pay stub were direct payments added by cruisers to their tabs or an allocation of the DSC. The DSC could easily be described as a tip for the portion that they direct pay to the staff via the paychecks.

 

As for hiring commissions, recruiters are not stupid. They know about compensation for those they help to hire - salaries, tips, whatever. I am confident this is all worked out in advance by the contract between them & NCL. There would not be wiggle room by shifting money in or out of a tip allocation.

[cruiser2015]

1 hour ago, bkrickles1 said:

I disagree with much of what you're saying here, but appreciate the detailed reply.

Happy Sailing!!

Apologies if I misinterpreted any of your comments.

Other than that, opinions are just that.      🙂

[bkrickles1]

10 minutes ago, cruiser2015 said:

Apologies if I misinterpreted any of your comments.

Other than that, opinions are just that.      🙂

No need for apologies. I am not the least bit perturbed. 

As you said, just opinions. 

[luv2kroooz]

2 hours ago, cruiser2015 said:

The post I was commenting on seemed to indicate the they were unhappy because NCL's DSC is higher than most cruise lines and, apparently, did not offer such exceptional service as to warrant it (again, compared to the competition) (also, reading between the lines here).

I'm just going to leave this right here. You have no idea what you are talking about as it relates to my satisfaction or happiness with NCL. I've responded to the OP for their benefit. You are free to believe whatever you want about me. Thank you!

[RocketMan275]

35 minutes ago, cruiser2015 said:

First of all, taxes are not the issue.

Employees pay taxes based on their paycheck, including any indicated tips (often estimated by the employer).

 

Most crew are not US citizens so how their compensation is treated probably depends upon the tax laws of their home country.

[julig22]

1 hour ago, cruiser2015 said:

First of all, taxes are not the issue.

Employees pay taxes based on their paycheck, including any indicated tips (often estimated by the employer).

 

Taxes are assessed on both sides - employers also pay taxes on employees.  While US laws are probably not applicable, there may be other employer savings, similar to the FICA tip credit in the US, by separating actual wages from tips.

 

[cruiser2015]

20 minutes ago, julig22 said:

Taxes are assessed on both sides - employers also pay taxes on employees.  While US laws are probably not applicable, there may be other employer savings, similar to the FICA tip credit in the US, by separating actual wages from tips.

 

FICA tip credit?

FICA taxes are due on all compensation.

A business would get an income tax deduction for that - which is exactly the same as for wages, benefits, or other expenses.

[cruiser2015]

58 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Most crew are not US citizens so how their compensation is treated probably depends upon the tax laws of their home country.

Excellent point.

Also note that I was not the one who mentioned taxes originally.

[ColeThornton]

2 hours ago, graphicguy said:

These crew work hard...very hard....harder than probably anyone who is a guest ever worked.  

 

Seriously?    Talk for yourself perhaps but trust me as a man who spent an entire career in the military with many deployments I'll disagree with that statement. 

 

Sure, they work hard but there is a whole bunch of cruisers who bust their butts and save for those cruise vacation.

[bkrickles1]

3 hours ago, graphicguy said:

 

 

These crew work hard...very hard....harder than probably anyone who is a guest ever worked.  So, is it a "power trip" thing?  Is it a "I have more money than you and I'll show you how to wield it" thing?

 

 

With all due respect, I have read a countless amount of your posts on here over the years, but I'm stunned with how wrong this comment is.

It's 100% untrue and insulting to so many on here.

 

I know someone already commented on this (and thank you for your service), but I felt this very bad take needed to be mentioned again.

[graphicguy]

1 hour ago, ColeThornton said:

 

Seriously?    Talk for yourself perhaps but trust me as a man who spent an entire career in the military with many deployments I'll disagree with that statement. 

 

Sure, they work hard but there is a whole bunch of cruisers who bust their butts and save for those cruise vacation.

No disagreement.  I did, too.  I had crappy jobs, bad companies and bad bosses, and for a while worked in the service sector.  I was a bartender in my early career to supplement my meager wages. I know what it felt like when those who threw a buck at me and acted like they were doing me a favor.  Those were the ones who complained that our/my "service" wasn't up to their standards and sometimes as an insult left me a penny.  Then, there were the ones who demeaned me by running up a $100 tab and laughing as they left their soggy $10 bill under their spilled beer glass after yelling for their drinks for hours.

 

Stating that someone's service was worth $16/day but not $20/day while cleaning their commodes and bathrooms, picking up after them, making their bed, serving them food and drinks, etc seems an insult to me.

 

If I offended, my apologies.  

 

We'll just agree to disagree.

Edited January 10 by graphicguy

[graphicguy]

30 minutes ago, bkrickles1 said:

With all due respect, I have read a countless amount of your posts on here over the years, but I'm stunned with how wrong this comment is.

It's 100% untrue and insulting to so many on here.

 

I know someone already commented on this (and thank you for your service), but I felt this very bad take needed to be mentioned again.

Again, not meant to offend.  

 

Agree to disagree!

[Acruisefiend]

I respect and appreciate the crew and how hard they work. 

I too have worked very hard jobs, physically and mentally hard. I too have lived where I've worked for months (actually year+) on end with no days off, no holidays, 14-16 hours days, in cramped spaces with co-workers.  I too had to deal with difficult clients that looked down on me and were impossible for no reason. I too got paid minimum wage and in many cases less.  And I didn't even have a tipped position! 

 

I'm American.

I cruise.

I understand hard work.

I doubt I'm the only one... 

 

Edited January 10 by Acruisefiend

[luv2kroooz]

39 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Stating that someone's service was worth $16/day but not $20/day while cleaning their commodes and bathrooms, picking up after them, making their bed, serving them food and drinks, etc seems an insult to me.

Why? A couple $32 per day? A family of four $64 per day? 

Edited January 10 by luv2kroooz

[ChiefMateJRK]

5 hours ago, graphicguy said:

Further, I've seen people at the Customer Service desk removing/reducing tips.  They are without fail to be curmudgeons and people I try to avoid on board because of their overall attitude.  I don't want them brining my joy and happiness down even a smidgeon.

Bingo.  Tell you what brother.  Next time we're on a cruise together, let's grab a few drinks and have seats within earshot of the customer service desk.  We'll turn it into a drinking game on a slow sea day afternoon.  I'll just turn my hearing aids up to high.🤣

 

disclaimer: I don't own hearing aids and would never actually attempt this.🐀

[graphicguy]

50 minutes ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Bingo.  Tell you what brother.  Next time we're on a cruise together, let's grab a few drinks and have seats within earshot of the customer service desk.  We'll turn it into a drinking game on a slow sea day afternoon.  I'll just turn my hearing aids up to high.🤣

 

disclaimer: I don't own hearing aids and would never actually attempt this.🐀

Thank you, my friend!  Well sail together again!

Edited January 11 by graphicguy

[mugtech]

11 hours ago, cruiser2015 said:

55 pesos to the dollar...what country was that in?

The Philippines,  Laguna Larry's home country.  Always carry pesos, so many great Filipinos working the ships.  Plus I snow bird there October to March.

[UKstages]

7 hours ago, graphicguy said:

So, is it a "power trip" thing?  Is it a "I have more money than you and I'll show you how to wield it" thing?

 

no, in many cases,  it's a transparency thing. (or lack thereof, to be more accurate.)

 

let me begin by saying that i myself have never adjusted the onboard service charge (f.k.a. "daily service charge" or "DSC.")

 

when i tip 20% or 25% in cash to a server in a land-based restaurant, i feel pretty confident that they are taking that home at the end of the night. even if the staff pools tips, i feel pretty confident that the cash is going to human beings working in the restaurant on the night i visited, with a proportionate amount going to my server, the one with whom i developed a relationship and whose service i wish to reward. when i leave $5 or $10 on my hotel pillow, i have full confidence that the person receiving that tip is the same one cleaning my room.

 

the onboard service charge doesn't work that way. no way, no how. 

 

NCL doesn't disclose specifically how the onboard service charge is allocated, and that is the problem for many folks. NCL actually says that the service charge can be used to fund various employee incentive programs. and that could mean anything from painting the employee bar to buying a ping pong table, to paying for a pizza party to providing a bus to the airport for employees taking their leave to providing wi-fi credits to team members.

 

yes, it may also mean cash bonuses or tips to certain team members.

 

but we don't know how much, if any at all.

 

and my spidey sense tells me that most of the money we pay as a service charge does not go to directly compensate employees monetarily. (the folks who instituted an up charge for the filet in le bistro and took smoked salmon away from the buffet don't strike me as the same folks who would fork over millions of dollars in cash to their employees without first siphoning off a good portion to fund baseline employee programs.)

 

18 hours ago, cruiser2015 said:

Get discounts whenever possible - but not by stiffing the workers.

 

but why do you believe this would be stiffing the workers?

 

what if it's NCL fleecing its guests?

 

NCL would have you believe that the money you pay for the service charge goes directly to compensate its employees. it seems pretty clear that it doesn't. a lot of it seems to go to fund baseline employee programs that should be paid for directly by NCL.

 

i maintain there is no direct correlation between what you pay as an onboard service charge and the compensation that employees receive, both front and back of house. NCL doesn't say what it does with the money. until somebody can provide an accounting of where that money goes, i will continue to assume very little of it goes into a tip pool to directly compensate employees and i will tip cabin attendants and other staff members directly for outstanding service.

 

again, i myself have never adjusted or rescinded the onboard service charge, so this isn't about that - for me, anyway.

 

but i would argue that if you do have a beef about the quality of customer care onboard an NCL ship. you would be doing a great disservice if you didn't report it to guest services and you didn't adjust the onboard service charge. NCL would continue blithely on its way thinking everything was just fine... it's only when people express concerns about something that NCL knows it may have a legitimate problem. and a heavy volume of complaints carries greater weight.

 

33 minutes ago, mugtech said:

The Philippines... Always carry pesos...

 

this... a thousand times this. i've done 48 business trips to the philippines  in the past ten years and always have a supply of pesos on hand. if the staff member is filipino, i almost always tip in pesos. it brings a smile to their face, and, quite often, they are just about to head home on leave and the tip gives them a running head start.

Edited January 11 by UKstages

[HabitualLineStepper]

12 hours ago, KSSS2013 said:

 

 Not sure if this is a reason to complain about the service charge....but I'm curious what you're doing to consistently get seated in those areas every single time. Looking at all the seating in the dining room the odds of that happening are very small unless you're doing something that makes them want to seat you in an undesirable area (I have no idea what behavior would cause that though).

 

 

I am not as pretty as the others and travel alone. It was the same host each night.

[graphicguy]

I know my cash tips at the bar are put in a "jar" and shared among the bartenders and bar backs.  That's the way it worked all those many years ago when I was a bartender.  So, assuming that's the same.

 

As far as DSC and how it gets distributed, that's business policy.  NCL states (as do other cruise lines) that service charges are used for compensation in different forms.  Probably bonuses, healthcare, etc.  Don't know that to be a certainty.  And, it has nothing to do with transparency.  I don't ask my roofer how he broke out the cost of my roof with his employees.  It's none of my business.  And, when I was still working, if someone asked how I was compensated, I responded the same way..."nunyas".

 

I was in the military many, many years ago.  Don't know what that has to do with this topic.  But, I know for a fact I never worked 7 days/week, 12-14 hours/day, 6-8 months at a time.  Yes, I was deployed in different geographic areas over months at a time.  But, I was given time off.  Again, it was brought up, but can't see the relevance to the crew working on a cruise ship.

 

None of my business whether you withhold some or all of your DSC. But, to book a cruise, know there is a DSC, and then deny those charges after the fact, well.....that tells me all I need to know.

 

Carry on!  Until there's another crazy tipping or service charge thread, I'll be a lurker.

[graphicguy]

"....but i would argue that if you do have a beef about the quality of customer care onboard an NCL ship. you would be doing a great disservice if you didn't report it to guest services and you didn't adjust the onboard service charge. NCL would continue blithely on its way thinking everything was just fine... it's only when people express concerns about something that NCL knows it may have a legitimate problem. and a heavy volume of complaints carries greater weight."

 

@Upstages....agree whole heartedly with this.  Let Customer Service know of any egregious lapse in service.  They need and want to know.  If they can't accommodate or rectify the situation, then yes, adjust your service charges.  But, in my experience, they will go over and above to fix any sort of service snafu.

[phillygwm]

While DSC -- and taxes/fees -- aren't literally hidden, they're also not part of the advertised "sticker price" of a cruise.  I just checked the website and Alaska is advertised as low as $249.  That is designed to drive traffic but it's obviously misleading; when you get into the booking you see the taxes, fees, DSC, grats, etc. and it isn't $249 anymore.  Part of those charges are optional, such as bar/premium restaurants, but it takes effort to opt-out of DSC (and I'd dare say that most pax don't know you can/wouldn't consider doing so.)   

 

If I were looking for the lowest cost provider, I'd prefer to see the "all-in," "apples to apples" cost.  I won't be holding my breath for that level of transparency, though.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 11 by phillygwm