American Queen Ceases Operations

[eroller]

43 minutes ago, br111 said:

I wonder what will happen the AQV river ships which certainly seem to be in good shape. The press release says they'll try to sell the business...

 

 

 

 

In regards to AQ, I've heard she needs quite a bit of work and there was a lot of deferred maintenance.  This is unfortunate as she was truly a gem. Some are saying she is done, and this is the final nail in her coffin.  I hope not. 

 

Unfortunately she doesn't fit the business model of the other two lines operating on the Mississippi, which are Viking and ACL (American Cruise Lines).  Both those lines are all about new and modern ships, and not the nostalgia aspect that AQV promoted.  So their fate is anyone's guess.  Honestly I'm not bothered about the COUNTESS and DUCHESS as they were converted from other vessels and frankly don't have much charm, but AQ and AE (Queen & Empress) I think are certainly worth saving.    

[ericosmith]

1 hour ago, br111 said:

I wonder what will happen the AQV river ships which certainly seem to be in good shape. The press release says they'll try to sell the business...

 

"In connection with the agreement, Hornblower's overnight cruising business American Queen Voyages ("AQV") will be sold or, if a sale cannot be achieved, its operations will be wound down. Hornblower is taking this action because of the underperformance of AQV, which has not rebounded from the pandemic."

 

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/hornblower-group-to-be-acquired-and-receive-significant-new-equity-investment-302067034.html

I take this to mean that it couldn't be sold since the operations have definitely been wound down.

[eroller]

2 hours ago, ericosmith said:

I take this to mean that it couldn't be sold since the operations have definitely been wound down.

They are looking to sell the assets at auction to help pay off the debt.  They proposed March 27 as the auction date.  The sooner the better as it’s something like $300k a week in layup costs for the vessels.  

Edited February 22 by eroller

[gkbiiii]

Perhaps with Delta Queen, they can be a new line based on Heritage Cruising? 

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, gkbiiii said:

Perhaps with Delta Queen, they can be a new line based on Heritage Cruising? 

What "Heritage Cruising" are you referring to?  I've found Heritage LIne and Heritage Expeditions, neither of which are US flag ship operators, so pretty sure they wouldn't want to get into the US market.  American Cruise Line does operate paddlewheelers, like the American Heritage, is that what you're referring to?

[3rdGenCunarder]

14 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Bidders can bid on one ship or several as a package.  Bids, with a deposit are submitted to the bankruptcy manager, and at the closing bell of the auction, highest bidder gets what he wants.

 

While the ships are moderately old, the big draw is that they are US bottoms, and so give any owner a leg up over the PVSA, and can qualify for some government loan guarantees.  That was the reason NCL bought the Constitution and Independence from Hawaiian American Line, even though they were definitely only worth scrapping, because you could literally strip the ship down to the keel, and rebuild it, and have a US flag vessel.  NCL ended up scrapping them (one sank on the way to the scrapper), but it kept other lines from obtaining a US bottom.

 

At the time, NCL also had the Norway. There was a rumor that, with the two other "old" ships, they were going to run a sister line of vintage cruise ships. Wishful thinking, I guess. 

[chengkp75]

17 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

At the time, NCL also had the Norway. There was a rumor that, with the two other "old" ships, they were going to run a sister line of vintage cruise ships. Wishful thinking, I guess. 

I don't remember any talk about operating the Indy and Conny unless they were literally torn down to the waterline, gutted, and rebuilt, as the ships were old steamships (like the Norway), but the plant and infrastructure (piping, wiring) was in such poor condition that they couldn't continue to operate without renewal.

[3rdGenCunarder]

54 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I don't remember any talk about operating the Indy and Conny unless they were literally torn down to the waterline, gutted, and rebuilt, as the ships were old steamships (like the Norway), but the plant and infrastructure (piping, wiring) was in such poor condition that they couldn't continue to operate without renewal.

 

As I said, probably wishful/nostalgic thinking. Considering how shabbily NCL treated Norway in her later years, it's probably for the best that this didn't happen. 

[GonzoWCS]

Great information and conversation here. Thanks!

 

Cheers

[br111]

An interesting list here of who AQV owes money to, including several travel agencies which definitely explains why they were delisted earlier this year. Others include the Peabody Hotel in Memphis and the bus company I assume they contracted with for their tours.

 

https://cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/2024/02/american-queen-voyages-files-chapter-11-auction-asset-date-proposed/

[ericosmith]

1 hour ago, br111 said:

An interesting list here of who AQV owes money to, including several travel agencies which definitely explains why they were delisted earlier this year. Others include the Peabody Hotel in Memphis and the bus company I assume they contracted with for their tours.

Fascinating.  Especially the debt to the post office.  Must be for all those fancy sales brochures I was getting in the mail even as they knew they were going down the tubes.  

[Host Jazzbeau]

25 minutes ago, ericosmith said:

Fascinating.  Especially the debt to the post office.  Must be for all those fancy sales brochures I was getting in the mail even as they knew they were going down the tubes.  

Which the post office lost money on, even if AQV had paid the postage!

[njhoo]

The end of AQ Voyages was not unexpected as it was becoming increasingly aware that the manner in how they were delaying refunds on cancelled cruises increasing longer and longer.  We got caught up in this several years ago and when told it would take 90 business days, I filled a dispute with Visa and was refunded the next day.  Equally disappointing was that we never received notice from AQ, heard it from another customer.

 

We look back on many voyages as we travelled the rivers of America, mighty Mississippi from St Paul to New Orleans (in segments), Columbia, Cumberland, Tennessee and Ohio.  We think of sailing with Phyllis Dale, Greg and Lindy, Curtis Field as General Grant, Anthony the bartender on the Countess and Erik the manager upstairs.  Enjoying early morning coffee with Holland Ware in the front porch, meeting Dave from Charlotte and Doug &Carol who will still travel with.  Yes this is the end of an era, inevitable as their shoreside management and downward on board experience forced the sad ending.  

[Host Jazzbeau]

9 minutes ago, njhoo said:

Yes this is the end of an era, inevitable as their shoreside management and downward on board experience forced the sad ending.

Maybe American Queen will rise again.  There is still a market for nostalgia cruises that this ship (and American Empress) can serve – hopefully a big enough market for one ship on the Mississippi and one in the Pacific Northwest.  Somebody could buy these two ships out of bankruptcy and start up with no debt hangover.

[chengkp75]

47 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Somebody could buy these two ships out of bankruptcy and start up with no debt hangover.

Just remember that maritime liens (for things like dockage, fuel, wages) can be claimed as "in rem" (against a thing, not a person or corporation), and so if there is not enough money to discharge all the maritime liens, then the "in rem" liens travel with the ship to the new owner.

Edited February 23 by chengkp75

[ericosmith]

On 2/22/2024 at 9:10 PM, br111 said:

An interesting list here of who AQV owes money to, including several travel agencies which definitely explains why they were delisted earlier this year. Others include the Peabody Hotel in Memphis and the bus company I assume they contracted with for their tours.

 

https://cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/2024/02/american-queen-voyages-files-chapter-11-auction-asset-date-proposed/

The one that has me scratching my head is:

• Port of San Diego                $480,288

Any idea what that could be for?

[Globalfish]

6 minutes ago, ericosmith said:

The one that has me scratching my head is:

• Port of San Diego                $480,288

Any idea what that could be for?

And even more far-fetched, Elevation Africa Destinations.

[eroller]

8 hours ago, ericosmith said:

The one that has me scratching my head is:

• Port of San Diego                $480,288

Any idea what that could be for?

Perhaps that expedition cruise ship they chartered from Sunstone docked there?  
 

They were spread thin for sure, and trying to diversify was a huge mistake.  

[DaveinCharlotte]

41 minutes ago, eroller said:

Perhaps that expedition cruise ship they chartered from Sunstone docked there?  

I'll bet that's it.  I remember that when they first starting using that ship in Alaska, they also offered a once-in-the-spring and once-in-the-fall cruise between San Diego and Central America.  

[GottaKnowWhen]

I became aware of the demise of American Queen when I got an email from them yesterday saying bye bye, so sorry, and here are links to follow to file for refunds. I was, and still am, quite puzzled as I do not now and never have had a reservation or trip with this cruise line.
I had noticed their offerings and had them in my “maybe some day” file folder, but never any customer/vendor relationship. 
I appreciate the useful discussions here!

Stan

[Globalfish]

2 hours ago, eroller said:

They were spread thin for sure, and trying to diversify was a huge mistake.  

Whatever on earth could explain their financial obligation to Elevation Africa Destinations?  Were they considering offering an expedition along the west coast of Africa or around the Cape of Good Hope?

[Globalfish]

8 minutes ago, GottaKnowWhen said:

I appreciate the useful discussions here!

 

Ditto!

[eroller]

46 minutes ago, Globalfish said:

Whatever on earth could explain their financial obligation to Elevation Africa Destinations?  Were they considering offering an expedition along the west coast of Africa or around the Cape of Good Hope?

 

That would be my guess.  And several AQV executives enjoyed a “preview” at company expense which never got paid.  
 

Another possibility is that it’s an expense from Hornblower, the parent company or one of its other brands.  They also filed bankruptcy so I’m not certain that creditor list is just from AQV or all of Hornblower?  San Diego might pertain to Hornblower as well.  

[Globalfish]

1 hour ago, eroller said:

 

That would be my guess.  And several AQV executives enjoyed a “preview” at company expense which never got paid.  
 

Another possibility is that it’s an expense from Hornblower, the parent company or one of its other brands.  They also filed bankruptcy so I’m not certain that creditor list is just from AQV or all of Hornblower?  San Diego might pertain to Hornblower as well.  

For university business schools — a classic, textbook case on how NOT to run a company.

[eroller]

7 minutes ago, Globalfish said:

For university business schools — a classic, textbook case on how NOT to run a company.

I agree. They are blaming Covid.  Easy scapegoat and BS.  They basically ran AQV into the ground and bled it dry. They also got greedy.  Trying to expand into the lucrative expedition market which they knew nothing about.