Maleth confirms end of P&O partnership

[Snow Hill]

1 hour ago, carlanthony24 said:

Presume like any other company. TrustPilot you can just write reviews without a reservation number etc. Feefo you actually need a link to write the review. So TrustPilot I would say is more fake in hindsight just look at the reviews for Feefo on it....

Many organisations provide links to Trustpilot, they are usually labelled as invited on the Trustpilot site, Feefo don’t indicate invites on their site.

[Bazrat]

1 hour ago, TigerB said:

 

 

 

The rolling eyes emoji and the laughing emoji in the reactions from @terrierjohn, @SeaJane, and @Angel57 clearly went over your head then!🙄

Nope just chose to ignore it

[carlanthony24]

2 hours ago, Eglesbrech said:

While you are of course correct should that be the case? Should it be acceptable?  In what other aspect of life other than travel would anyone be forced with no choice to accept such changes after booking and paying.

 

Seat in the circle for a show replaced by the Gods or stalls?

 

Yes it should be acceptable if not then you will never get to go away if a plane goes tech etc. Virgin and BA also do the same practice but you still get money back for the cost of premium and seats, if they have to change the aircraft. You would not get a full refund for the holiday though if things change. No different with P&O.

Edited February 1 by carlanthony24

[carlanthony24]

1 hour ago, Snow Hill said:

Many organisations provide links to Trustpilot, they are usually labelled as invited on the Trustpilot site, Feefo don’t indicate invites on their site.

Not sure then but I can literally go on Trustpilot and write a fake review without question. Compared to Feefo I see no where to do that unless I receive a link which I have done before from P&O. It's like TripAdvisor you can write fake reviews then get them taken down, Google is no better.

Edited February 1 by carlanthony24

[Eglesbrech]

9 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

Yes it should be acceptable. Virgin and BA also do the same practice but you still get money back for the cost of premium and seats, if they have to change the aircraft. You would not get a full refund for the holiday though if things change. No different with P&O.

Then BA and Virgin are also wrong IMO. I don’t find it acceptable from any travel company but that just me.

Edited February 1 by Eglesbrech
Typo

[carlanthony24]

Ironic enough. He still carries on cruising with P&O. Now this is damaging a company reputation.

[carlanthony24]

2 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

Then BA and Virgin are also wrong IMO. I don’t find it acceptable from any travel company buts that just me.

That is life. What ever airline you book you are not guaranteed that plane, same company. So you say its wrong the Dreamliner goes tech 8hrs before the holiday then they need another aircraft to get you out? If companies were refunding left right and center we would never have a holiday since all companies would be bankrupt.

[Eglesbrech]

1 minute ago, carlanthony24 said:

That is life. What ever airline you book you are not guaranteed that plane, same company. So you say its wrong the Dreamliner goes tech 8hrs before the holiday then they need another aircraft to get you out? If companies were refunding left right and center we would never have a holiday since all companies would be bankrupt.

I don’t recall saying anything about a refund and there is a vast difference between an 8 hour in advance tech problem and a many months in advance change of carrier with subsequent downgrading of pre booked seats with no choices for the customer.

 

Would you accept a seat in the Gods if you booked a nice  seat in the dress circle for an opera or theatre show if the theatre knew when they sold the seat months in advance that it was not available. Or would you expect choices?

 

 

[carlanthony24]

4 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

I don’t recall saying anything about a refund and there is a vast difference between an 8 hour in advance tech problem and a many months in advance change of carrier with subsequent downgrading of pre booked seats with no choices for the customer.

 

Would you accept a seat in the Gods if you booked a nice  seat in the dress circle for an opera or theatre show if the theatre knew when they sold the seat months in advance that it was not available. Or would you expect choices?

 

 

If something that is beyond the control then yes.

[Eglesbrech]

Just now, carlanthony24 said:

If something that is beyond the control then yes.

Then all I can say is that you are a very tolerant person, more than I will ever be prepared to be.

 

I expect to be treated with a bit of consideration and offered choices when any company changes what I book and pay for in advance, not ultimatums but as I said above, that’s just me. It takes all sorts to make the world go round.

[terrierjohn]

21 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

Then all I can say is that you are a very tolerant person, more than I will ever be prepared to be.

 

I expect to be treated with a bit of consideration and offered choices when any company changes what I book and pay for in advance, not ultimatums but as I said above, that’s just me. It takes all sorts to make the world go round.

If you had booked premium seats then in this case your choice would be to travel in the lower grade cabin with your prem seat cost refunded, or not travel at all. However since you have had your premium seat cost refunded, and all other T&Cs have been met, then P&O would be within their rights to refuse you a refund.

[Eglesbrech]

10 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

If you had booked premium seats then in this case your choice would be to travel in the lower grade cabin with your prem seat cost refunded, or not travel at all. However since you have had your premium seat cost refunded, and all other T&Cs have been met, then P&O would be within their rights to refuse you a refund.

Not really a choice for the customer at all then as it carries on one hand a potentially substantial financial penalty (presumably a loss of deposit) or an uncomfortable journey compared that that booked and paid for many months in advance. Hobsons choice.

 

Anyway I won’t be convinced by those who support this kind of thing as in any way acceptable and they certainly won’t be convinced by my views on it so there is little else to say.

 

[Beachlover62]

The case here is that in previous years Azura and Britannia were based in the Caribbean. Now its Arvia and Britannia so capacity has gone up but someone in P and O missed this and when it was realised they couldn't get suitable aircraft so had to settle for Maleth. Bad planning by P and O.  They should then have offered to let customers that were prebooked to cancel. Even now customers aren't being told upon booking which airline they are using. I recently went to the Caribbean and flew from Birmingham so I knew I would be flying on the Dreamliner. 

[Presto2]

12 minutes ago, Beachlover62 said:

The case here is that in previous years Azura and Britannia were based in the Caribbean. Now its Arvia and Britannia so capacity has gone up but someone in P and O missed this and when it was realised they couldn't get suitable aircraft so had to settle for Maleth. Bad planning by P and O.  They should then have offered to let customers that were prebooked to cancel. Even now customers aren't being told upon booking which airline they are using. I recently went to the Caribbean and flew from Birmingham so I knew I would be flying on the Dreamliner. 

We asked at time.of booking last week and were reassured it was TUI for January 2025. I asked directly. I asked twice 

[carlanthony24]

14 minutes ago, Beachlover62 said:

The case here is that in previous years Azura and Britannia were based in the Caribbean. Now its Arvia and Britannia so capacity has gone up but someone in P and O missed this and when it was realised they couldn't get suitable aircraft so had to settle for Maleth. Bad planning by P and O.  They should then have offered to let customers that were prebooked to cancel. Even now customers aren't being told upon booking which airline they are using. I recently went to the Caribbean and flew from Birmingham so I knew I would be flying on the Dreamliner. 

Also the case that Thomas Cook went bust. Airlines did not anticipate the aviation industry to ramp up the way it did. Virgin were able to fulfill P&O requirements last year this year they could not. Per T&C's they can not guarantee the airline but they have said the majority of Barbados flights if not all will be TUI. Rumors others will be BA, Virgin or even Norse. They had to find another airline to manage the schedule since other airlines did not have the capacity if I remember Mole saying.

[doog442]

2 hours ago, carlanthony24 said:

Yes it should be acceptable if not then you will never get to go away if a plane goes tech etc. Virgin and BA also do the same practice but you still get money back for the cost of premium and seats, if they have to change the aircraft. You would not get a full refund for the holiday though if things change. No different with P&O.

 

It's not acceptable. You're making it sound like its normal practice, it's not really. Most long haul aircraft with Tui , Virgin and BA are changed like for like or similar if there's a tech fault.You dont often get situations where 40 people are thrown out of world traveller plus with BA as is happening with Maleth on a weekly basis.You might well lose a row of seats to economy or they'll upgrade them further. Any seat move if pre paid will get a refund of course.

 

The more you bang on that's its acceptable and quote the small print plus deflect the blame the more you devalue the product which is a long haul P&O cruise  not a two hour flight to Barcelona. People don't book a package like this and expect a sub par product.

 

My daughter works long haul for BA and the current situation with Maleth is pretty irregular and a major failing, hardly normal in any sense of the word.

 

 

[carlanthony24]

31 minutes ago, doog442 said:

 

It's not acceptable. You're making it sound like its normal practice, it's not really. Most long haul aircraft with Tui , Virgin and BA are changed like for like or similar if there's a tech fault.You dont often get situations where 40 people are thrown out of world traveller plus with BA as is happening with Maleth on a weekly basis.You might well lose a row of seats to economy or they'll upgrade them further. Any seat move if pre paid will get a refund of course.

 

The more you bang on that's its acceptable and quote the small print plus deflect the blame the more you devalue the product which is a long haul P&O cruise  not a two hour flight to Barcelona. People don't book a package like this and expect a sub par product.

 

My daughter works long haul for BA and the current situation with Maleth is pretty irregular and a major failing, hardly normal in any sense of the word.

 

 

TUI keep bringing in Wamos and Privilege Style during the winter. Every year heck even Norse this year. Luckily they have 787 with IFE the other two don't. BA were using Air Belgium did not hear good things about them. Do you remember the TUI 767's constantly breaking down. Leg room not good, IFE which never worked.

 

People literally book TUI and end up on a Wamos A330. You say people book a package expecting xyz. You can expect all you want you are never guaranteed it no matter what. The fact BA have more aircraft than the likes of TUI UK for instance only have 19 long haul aircraft BA have 113 at least. No wonder they can do like for like. On the day you turn up at the airport expecting a 787 unfortunately something has now happened so they now bring in a 330 its normal practice for the small airlines if you like. Even TUI Nordic have one and TUI UK have to send some 787 to help out. So leaves TUI UK short.

Edited February 1 by carlanthony24

[cruising.mark.uk]

3 hours ago, carlanthony24 said:

Yes it should be acceptable if not then you will never get to go away if a plane goes tech etc. Virgin and BA also do the same practice but you still get money back for the cost of premium and seats, if they have to change the aircraft. You would not get a full refund for the holiday though if things change. No different with P&O.

I agree.  It's not ideal, but it is acceptable if you really want to travel from A to B and the only alternative is to cancel.  I think it's a risk one takes when booking travel with providers where there is very little, if any, spare capacity at short-notice.  I've had personal experience of booking 1st class on a London to Scotland train, only to discover that 'because of shortage of rolling stock' there was only one first class carriage on the train so the majority of those who had booked 1st class got booted to standard.  And, many years back, I also booked a cabin on an overnight ferry to the continent, where the ship was substituted by another because it required maintenance and the replacement (not designed for the overnight route) had no cabins.  Neither of those scenarios were good, but it seems to me that sometimes it's a fact of life that transport providers can't provide upgrades that have been booked and paid for.

 

Clearly, travellers should be compensated / refunded when they don't get what they booked, but I don't think it is realistic to expect the providers to be able to 'magic up' the facilities that were booked months before if circumstances and equipment availability make it impossible for them to do that.

[doog442]

24 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

TUI keep bringing in Wamos and Privilege Style during the winter. Every year heck even Norse this year. Luckily they have 787 with IFE the other two don't. BA were using Air Belgium did not hear good things about them. Do you remember the TUI 767's constantly breaking down. Leg room not good, IFE which never worked.

 

People literally book TUI and end up on a Wamos A330. You say people book a package expecting xyz. You can expect all you want you are never guaranteed it no matter what. The fact BA have more aircraft than the likes of TUI UK for instance only have 19 long haul aircraft BA have 113 at least. No wonder they can do like for like. On the day you turn up at the airport expecting a 787 unfortunately something has now happened so they now bring in a 330 its normal practice for the small airlines if you like. Even TUI Nordic have one and TUI UK have to send some 787 to help out. So leaves TUI UK short.

 

How many flights does this impact? Not many in the big scheme of things although I accept the industry is playing catch up at this point in time.

 

My point is that you're trying to get the point over that it's acceptable for people who've booked PE for example to be shunted down to economy on what is a regular basis. Perhaps you've lost the context of the thread? Its also not acceptable to see the continued delays to Maleth flights which in turn are leading to delayed ship departures where shops and the casinos can't open,loss of revenue etc.

 

Of course it happens as explained above but this isn't an ordinary situation as threads like this don't appear that often.

 

If it's acceptable as you say then let's just see if P&O use Maleth again? Of course they won't as they'll consider the product to be unacceptable, not that they'll admit it of course.

 

Is it a risk travelling long haul ? absolutely but in 30 odd years of long haul travel I'm probably struggling to see such a sustained failure. It doesn't help hearing first hand of those who've suffered as a result, we're on Arvia and have spoken to spoken to those treated like cattle and the delays....and nothing appears to be changing. I'm hearing Maleth cabin crew are going sick rather than face some of these flights which is upsetting but compounds the situation.

 

So to reiterate, in the context of the package offered by P&O the situation for those affected is entirely unacceptable. I know you've worked in the industry so would expect a little empathy rather than simply pointing people towards the small print and basically saying tough.

 

 

[carlanthony24]

2 minutes ago, doog442 said:

 

How many flights does this impact? Not many in the big scheme of things although I accept the industry is playing catch up at this point in time.

 

My point is that you're trying to get the point over that it's acceptable for people who've booked PE for example to be shunted down to economy on what is a regular basis. Perhaps you've lost the context of the thread? Its also not acceptable to see the continued delays to Maleth flights which in turn are leading to delayed ship departures where shops and the casinos can't open,loss of revenue etc.

 

Of course it happens as explained above but this isn't an ordinary situation as threads like this don't appear that often.

 

If it's acceptable as you say then let's just see if P&O use Maleth again? Of course they won't as they'll consider the product to be unacceptable, not that they'll admit it of course.

 

Is it a risk travelling long haul ? absolutely but in 30 odd years of long haul travel I'm probably struggling to see such a sustained failure. It doesn't help hearing first hand of those who've suffered as a result, we're on Arvia and have spoken to spoken to those treated like cattle and the delays....and nothing appears to be changing. I'm hearing Maleth cabin crew are going sick rather than face some of these flights which is upsetting but compounds the situation.

 

So to reiterate, in the context of the package offered by P&O the situation for those affected is entirely unacceptable. I know you've worked in the industry so would expect a little empathy rather than simply pointing people towards the small print and basically saying tough.

 

 

Affects quite a few. Marella Cruises are affected in this has well and they are TUI owned.

 

Its not a regular basis its only happened this winter season with the airline they could get. Getting all the money back besides the cruise. It happens. The only other choice P&O had was cancel cruises making the situation IMO even worse and potentially having a ship not remotely full like I believe Britannia was delayed going out to the Caribbean in 2022 since they could not get an airline to operate for them. That also caused people to be upset etc. People were even saying they could just get this airline, It's not that simple.

 

If Maleth were the only choice again I would think they would use them or another airline that people don't seem to know of. People are actually happy these flights are being delayed because the compensation they can get pays for them to go away again.

 

They have admitted that Maleth has not been supplying the product expected by P&O if I remember Mole said that how ever many pages ago also been mentioned elsewhere that Maleth has broke the contract.

 

What people are failing to understand though. You can book any airline even not has a package and not receive that aircraft/airline. People have been told they are getting TUI for next winter for most of the flights again unless something happens with the planes a couple of hours before, 24hrs before you can end up on a different carrier which all being well provide a TUI service and be in economy and still get a refund for the flights not having premium service. 

[terrierjohn]

2 hours ago, Beachlover62 said:

The case here is that in previous years Azura and Britannia were based in the Caribbean. Now its Arvia and Britannia so capacity has gone up but someone in P and O missed this and when it was realised they couldn't get suitable aircraft so had to settle for Maleth. Bad planning by P and O.  They should then have offered to let customers that were prebooked to cancel. Even now customers aren't being told upon booking which airline they are using. I recently went to the Caribbean and flew from Birmingham so I knew I would be flying on the Dreamliner. 

You forget that Iona and Arvia were ordered pre the covid pandemic, and Arvia and Britannia were already planned to do the winter Caribbean fly cruises, and at that time there was plenty of spare capacity that the major airlines were keen to offer to P&O, along with the traditional charter airlines TUI and Thomas Cook, so P&O, quite rightly at the time, felt reasonably assured that airplane capacity would not be a problem.

The thinning down of all the older planes as a result of covid, and the collapse of TC in late 2019, completely changed the airline capacity, and the plane makers have been struggling over the last 2 years to get their capacity back to pre covid levels.

Quite the perfect storm which P&O have managed rather well until this year, when airline passenger numbers have increased to the point that BA and Virgin need all their capacity to meet their iwn scheduled demand.

[carlanthony24]

42 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

I agree.  It's not ideal, but it is acceptable if you really want to travel from A to B and the only alternative is to cancel.  I think it's a risk one takes when booking travel with providers where there is very little, if any, spare capacity at short-notice.  I've had personal experience of booking 1st class on a London to Scotland train, only to discover that 'because of shortage of rolling stock' there was only one first class carriage on the train so the majority of those who had booked 1st class got booted to standard.  And, many years back, I also booked a cabin on an overnight ferry to the continent, where the ship was substituted by another because it required maintenance and the replacement (not designed for the overnight route) had no cabins.  Neither of those scenarios were good, but it seems to me that sometimes it's a fact of life that transport providers can't provide upgrades that have been booked and paid for.

 

Clearly, travellers should be compensated / refunded when they don't get what they booked, but I don't think it is realistic to expect the providers to be able to 'magic up' the facilities that were booked months before if circumstances and equipment availability make it impossible for them to do that.

Exactly this.

 

A captain I use to work with had to explain to 150 odd passengers that they were going to be delayed longer because the crew due to operate the flight from the previous day were involved in an accident on the way from the hotel. He explained a Thomas Cook aircraft was on the way out to bring them back. People were unhappy they were going back on a company they did not like or had bad experiences with and expected us to just arrange another aircraft out of nowhere. Made us laugh once the Captain mentioned you can claim x amount in compensation most turned around and accepted it.  

[tring]

6 hours ago, Eglesbrech said:

While you are of course correct should that be the case? Should it be acceptable?  In what other aspect of life other than travel would anyone be forced with no choice to accept such changes after booking and paying.

 

Seat in the circle for a show replaced by the Gods or stalls?

 

 

If you book premium and it is not supplied, you would legally be entitled to a refund plus compensation, though sadly it would not be enough to cancel a flight/holiday.

 

[tring]

4 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

If you had booked premium seats then in this case your choice would be to travel in the lower grade cabin with your prem seat cost refunded, or not travel at all. However since you have had your premium seat cost refunded, and all other T&Cs have been met, then P&O would be within their rights to refuse you a refund.

 

It is true that you would not be legally entitled to cancel, but they would need to both refund the cost of premium seats, plus add some compensation as well. 

 

If it is a P&O cruise, booked on a select fare, I am thinking you will be able to change the cruise for a different cruise though if it is more than, (is it 90 days?), prior to the cruise date.

 

Edited February 1 by tring

[Winifred 22]

7 hours ago, tring said:

 

It is true that you would not be legally entitled to cancel, but they would need to both refund the cost of premium seats, plus add some compensation as well. 

 

If it is a P&O cruise, booked on a select fare, I am thinking you will be able to change the cruise for a different cruise though if it is more than, (is it 90 days?), prior to the cruise date.

 

The cruise can only be moved once. New cruise must depart within 12 months of the original sail date and must be of equal or greater value. Only applies as you say to Select fares.