Dawn passengers left “stranded” on African island

[gjr]

4 minutes ago, dmwnc1959 said:

 

And that’s all it takes in the court of public opinion. 
 

NCL has utterly failed. 

If NCL waited for them here, will they now need to wait for every late passenger in every port?  Do this once, and every passenger will expect the ship to wait for them everywhere. 

 

Sorry, not sorry.  NCL was absolutely right

[dmwnc1959]

9 minutes ago, gjr said:

If NCL waited for them here, will they now need to wait for every late passenger in every port?  Do this once, and every passenger will expect the ship to wait for them everywhere. 

 

Sorry, not sorry.  NCL was absolutely right

I think it would be different if this was in the Bahamas, or Australia, or Bermuda, or Italy, or somewhere that wasn’t bordering Third World country status. Africa is not safe by any stretch of the imagination. Yes, these people were on an independent tour. NCL was wrong. NCL put their passengers in danger. NCL favored the almighty dollar. NCL abandoned their passengers. 
 

I’m not an NCL cheerleader, I’m not an NCL shareholder, and I’m not an NCL corporate shill. And in the court of non-Cruise Critic public opinion, NCL is guilty. 
 

GUILTY. 

 

😎

Edited April 2 by dmwnc1959

[Oakman58]

Knowing how I am, if this happened to me, when I rejoined the ship, I would give the Captain some grief every time I saw him. "Thanks for leaving me behind without my medications Captain, I almost died." "Thank for leaving me in a 3rd World country Captain that didn't accept my credit cards."  Knowing my personality, I would probably push the issue until I ended up in the brig.

[MommaBear55]

6 minutes ago, Oakman58 said:

Knowing how I am, if this happened to me, when I rejoined the ship, I would give the Captain some grief every time I saw him. "Thanks for leaving me behind without my medications Captain, I almost died." "Thank for leaving me in a 3rd World country Captain that didn't accept my credit cards."  Knowing my personality, I would probably push the issue until I ended up in the brig.

But would you have risked returning late by taking a non cruise sponsored excursion? 

[dmwnc1959]

23 minutes ago, MommaBear55 said:

But would you have risked returning late by taking a non cruise sponsored excursion? 

People do this all the time. Quite literally, all the time. On tons of different itineraries all over the world. People have even died doing non-cruise sponsored excursions.
 

Maybe instead of abandoning his passengers, the captain and the cruise line could’ve fined the passengers, or removed them at the next board of call, or done something other than leaving them behind on an island to then be forced to transit 7 more mid-African countries to catch up with a ship.
 

There absolutely has to be circumstances where the cruise line has to put the safety of those passengers first, regardless. Oh, wait, they had the shareholders to think of. 

[FrankieSue]

I agree that in some instances passengers who do not return on time are left behind. But the Captain must balance the need for time keeping with the safety and well-being of his passengers. In this case passengers were left on a small island of a so so safe Country without medication or luggage… what if these passengers come to harm, or get sick for lack of their medication? They were not left behind in Aruba! I think in this case, the Captain should have waited. If the Ship can wait because passengers paid more for their excursions, the Ship can also wait to guarantee the safety of its passengers…. And the “if they do it for them, they will have to do it for all” does not hold water for me (excuse the pun)… This should have been treated as an exceptional situation, which it was… In my view the Captain used poor judgement and I sincerely hope that no harm comes to those still trying to rejoin the Ship.  This is a very bad way to promote the Ship’s expensive excursions with an “see what happens to those who do not book shore excursions with us”

[srz948]

No way is NCL to blame. We were on Celebrity last May and took an all day excursion from Warnemunde to Berlin, 3 hour train ride each way. We're not super experienced cruisers but there was NO WAY we weren't booking thru Celebrity. Enjoying the tour or being stressed out all day about possibly "missing the boat" to save a few bucks. Cruise companies can be very ambiguous about certain things but one thing they are incredibly clear about are the risks of not returning to the ship on time.  Ridiculous how the media distorts the facts for ratings and clicks.

[Menocchio]

Sao Tome and Principe has a Level 1 travel advisor from the US State Department. The Bahamas is Level 2. Jamaica is Level 3. The Mexican state where Acapulco is located is Level 4.

 

We point and laugh at Caribbean pier runners. It's an entire genre on YouTube and TikTok. Those people are also being "abandoned", and often in less safe countries than Sao Tome. How long should the captain have waited for them? 

 

Or do they wait only in Africa because westerners think of Africa as a writhing morass of cannibal warlords and think of the Caribbean as friendly beaches with steel drums?

[dmwnc1959]

1 minute ago, Menocchio said:

Sao Tome and Principe has a Level 1 travel advisor from the US State Department. The Bahamas is Level 2. Jamaica is Level 3. The Mexican state where Acapulco is located is Level 4.

 

We point and laugh at Caribbean pier runners. It's an entire genre on YouTube and TikTok. Those people are also being "abandoned", and often in less safe countries than Sao Tome. How long should the captain have waited for them? 

 

Or do they wait only in Africa because westerners think of Africa as a writhing morass of cannibal warlords and think of the Caribbean as friendly beaches with steel drums? 

The Bahamas, Jamaica, and Mexico are a stone’s throw from the US. 
 

If I miss the ship in the Caribbean or Mexico  I can simply catch a routine daily scheduled flight back to the US. 

 

São Tomé has zero diplomatic representation from the US to assist if passengers are left behind. Next stop, Angola. And it’s not just São Tomé, but the subsequent countries that the passengers had to transit through in order to get to the ship.
 

The Caribbean isn’t Europe and isn’t Africa. These things simply cannot be compared as equals. 

[graphicguy]

Personally, I don't think NCL suffers any regarding this story.  The people who fall for it are most likely arm chair judges and not likely cruisers to begin with.  I also doubt very seriously that this impacts NCL bookings, at all.  

 

We know we can't hold up the ship if we're late for all aboard, regardless of the reason.  The location doesn't matter (except for dramatic effect).  This could happen in St Thomas, Atlantis, Canada.  You miss all aboard while you're out exploring on your own (as in this case) all cruise lines make it very clear when all aboard time is.  The tour operators know this. Guests are made aware of it multiple times.

 

The fact that it happened in a region that has little, to no familiarity and is so far away is even more reason to take a sponsored NCL tour...one that NCL has vetted.  Again, this is another failure on both the guests and the tour operator's part.  

 

I equate this to the Grandfather who accidentally dropped his granddaughter out of a window on a Royal ship.  Tragic.  Everyone tried their darnedest to claim it was Royal's fault.  Royal stood their ground that while an absolute tragedy, they were not to blame.

 

NCL will do the same here.  They did the right thing.  The facts are getting obfuscated over this mob mentality....get the big bad cruise line.  Fact is, the tour operator, after promising to get the guests back to the ship (in this case the last tender) on time, utterly failed.  Don't know the reason.  Don't know why.  I'm betting when the facts come out, it will not look good for the tour operator.

 

Holding up 2,000 other guests for an unknown period of time because a tour operator screws up isn't something any cruise line should succumb to.

Edited April 2 by graphicguy

[Menocchio]

4 minutes ago, dmwnc1959 said:

And it’s not just São Tomé, but the subsequent countries that the passengers had to transit through in order to get to the ship.

Gambia and Senegal are also rated as more safe than many Caribbean countries. 

[dmwnc1959]

18 minutes ago, srz948 said:

We were on Celebrity last May and took an all day excursion from Warnemunde to Berlin… there was NO WAY we weren't booking thru Celebrity… to save a few bucks. 

Yes, a six-hour roundtrip train ride through Germany and a 7-square mile island off of the coast of Africa are exactly the same. 

[thistimeplease]

1 hour ago, dmwnc1959 said:

I think it would be different if this was in the Bahamas, or Australia, or Bermuda, or Italy, or somewhere that wasn’t bordering Third World country status. Africa is not safe by any stretch of the imagination. Yes, these people were on an independent tour. NCL was wrong. NCL put their passengers in danger. NCL favored the almighty dollar. NCL abandoned their passengers. 
 

I’m not an NCL cheerleader, I’m not an NCL shareholder, and I’m not an NCL corporate shill. And in the court of non-Cruise Critic public opinion, NCL is guilty. 
 

GUILTY. 

 

😎

Not sure where you are reading that people believe NCL is wrong.  I have read countless articles regarding this and so far most people who have commented feel NCL did the right thing.  It is stated numerous times that if someone isn't back to the ship on time the ship will leave you there.  If you can't follow directions don't leave the ship.  Sorry I'm with NCL on this.

[dmwnc1959]

Just now, Menocchio said:

Gambia and Senegal are also rated as more safe than many Caribbean countries. 

Which explains why sooooo many people are just flocking to those countries rather than go to the Caribbean. It’s so much safer. 😎

[graphicguy]

23 minutes ago, Menocchio said:

Sao Tome and Principe has a Level 1 travel advisor from the US State Department. The Bahamas is Level 2. Jamaica is Level 3. The Mexican state where Acapulco is located is Level 4.

 

We point and laugh at Caribbean pier runners. It's an entire genre on YouTube and TikTok. Those people are also being "abandoned", and often in less safe countries than Sao Tome. How long should the captain have waited for them? 

 

Or do they wait only in Africa because westerners think of Africa as a writhing morass of cannibal warlords and think of the Caribbean as friendly beaches with steel drums?

That's a very good point.  

 

They are purposely shading some pertinent facts here and trying to play on the fact that these people were late to reboard.  We know the last tender had already gone.  So, it would have taken a good amount of time to get any tenders relaunched (if they could do it at all), go to the pick up point, travel back to the ship, raise the tender into position, and take off again.

 

If I were on board and being delayed by someone who didn't make the last tender (after having access to several tenders coming back to the ship), I'd have no sympathy, either.

 

Give it a little time.  This will pass.  NCL's in the right.  So far we haven't seen any legal entity claim this frivolous lawsuit.  Maybe none of them will tough it?

[dmwnc1959]

15 minutes ago, thistimeplease said:

Not sure where you are reading that people believe NCL is wrong.  I have read countless articles regarding this and so far most people who have commented feel NCL did the right thing.  It is stated numerous times that if someone isn't back to the ship on time the ship will leave you there.  If you can't follow directions don't leave the ship.  Sorry I'm with NCL on this.

It’s been stated here that people also believe that every circumstance is different. The all-aboard time for the Bahamas or Jamaica is different than whatever circumstances led to the this incident. The next port of call could’ve easily been delayed, and as it was eventually canceled due to inclement weather.
 

Not falling for the NCL corporate washing their hands of this. The appear to feel somewhat responsible by reimbursing the passengers of all their expenses of catching up to the ship.

 

😁

Edited April 2 by dmwnc1959

[graphicguy]

Glaringly omitted is anyone interviewing the tour operators to find out why they were late and to corroborate the little they've stated so far!

 

 

[azappraiser]

We booked a private excursion for a "day sail" while in port in St. Thomas.  The ship was 30-minutes late getting into port, and the Freestyle Daily had an advisory that we would be departing an hour earlier than scheduled.

 

The original plan allowed 2 1/2 hours from the end of the sail to the ship's departure; however, with the late arrival and early departure, we decided not to chance getting left behind and canceled the excursion.

 

I'm sorry for stating the obvious, but, if passengers are willing to roll the dice by booking a non-NCL Sponsored excursion, then they need to accept responsibility for their decisions when things don't go as planned.

 

I see nothing in the "Passenger's Bill of Rights" stating the cruise line must wait for passengers that are late when returning from non-sponsored excursions.

CruiseIndustryPassengerBillofRights052313.pdf

[FrankieSue]

The irony here is that those passengers were left in a dire situation so that the Ship could make its next port on time, which according to reports, they had to miss because of adverse weather!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cltnccruisers]

2 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Glaringly omitted is anyone interviewing the tour operators to find out why they were late and to corroborate the little they've stated so far!

 

 

Cruise lines vet, or clam to, all ship sponsored excursion operators.  They do not do the same for independents.  Do we even know the name of the tour operation?  There seem to be a lot of holes in this story.

[Woofbite]

1 hour ago, dmwnc1959 said:

People do this all the time. Quite literally, all the time. On tons of different itineraries all over the world. People have even died doing non-cruise sponsored excursions.
 

Maybe instead of abandoning his passengers, the captain and the cruise line could’ve fined the passengers, or removed them at the next board of call, or done something other than leaving them behind on an island to then be forced to transit 7 more mid-African countries to catch up with a ship.
 

There absolutely has to be circumstances where the cruise line has to put the safety of those passengers first, regardless. Oh, wait, they had the shareholders to think of. 

Sorry, but I disagree.  You can't cure stupid and adults who can't keep track of time and circumstances probably should just stay sequestered at home and avoid venturing out into the real world.

 

 

[Two Wheels Only]

2 hours ago, dmwnc1959 said:

Despite of what we know, despite how informed we may be, and despite of what we may think as morally or ethically right, or right based on the shareholders (really, really, the shareholders?), in the court of public opinion they are guilty of absolute abandonment. Guilty of possibly putting their passengers in grave danger. And guilty of absolutely failing on their job to keep passengers out of harm’s way.

 

...and ships will continue to sail at over 100% capacity....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...and more people will book NCL sponsored excursions instead of booking independent excursions.  

[blackwing]

 

1 hour ago, dmwnc1959 said:

People do this all the time. Quite literally, all the time. On tons of different itineraries all over the world. People have even died doing non-cruise sponsored excursions.

You're right.  People take non-cruise sponsored excursions all the time.  But 99% of those people make sure that whatever non-cruise sponsored excursion they take will get them back to the boat on time.  The ones that don't are the ones that get left behind.

11 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Glaringly omitted is anyone interviewing the tour operators to find out why they were late and to corroborate the little they've stated so far!

Because this is so clearly one sided in favor of those "stranded" passengers.  I'm sure they have been contacting U.S. media and arranging to be interviewed (presumably via FaceTime or something) to give their story.  Of course they're not going to give GMA and the Today Show the name and contact number of the tour operator, and the Sao Tome tour operator isn't going to be interviewed by Hoda.

 

If there is any justice, other passengers would treat these strandees as pariahs for trying to milk fame from their own error.

[dmwnc1959]

6 minutes ago, Woofbite said:

Sorry, but I disagree.  You can't cure stupid and adults who can't keep track of time and circumstances probably should just stay sequestered at home and avoid venturing out into the real world.

 

 

So, based on this, you know all of the details of exactly what happened while they were out on their shore excursion, you know exactly why it was late, and you know exactly why they couldn’t make it back to the ship. How nice of you to make blanket condemnation of people that do non-cruise line sponsored shore excursions. 

[Menocchio]

25 minutes ago, dmwnc1959 said:

Which explains why sooooo many people are just flocking to those countries rather than go to the Caribbean. It’s so much safer. 😎

I've had some Senegalese food. It's amazing. I'd definitely go there if I ever have the chance. But I might never have the chance.

 

I might go to the Bahamas someday just because I'm bored and it's cheaper and easier to get to than even many places in the continental USA.