Dawn passengers left “stranded” on African island

[chengkp75]

29 minutes ago, PATRLR said:

I don't suppose you have a source for this claim?  I'm pretty sure you don't and I doubt it's even remotely close to true. 

If it were true, then that would mean 1 out of every 20 ship boardings would result in a death. Even if you meant to say 1/20th or 1%, that would still be 1 out of every 2000 boardings resulted in death.

I'd be surprised if anyone on these boards has ever heard of a pilot dying while boarding a ship they were a passenger on.  Probably 100s of thousands of pilot boardings - anyone ever hear of a pilot dying while boarding?

The actual statistic is that pilots have a 1 in 20 chance of dying on the job. 2 to 3 pilots worldwide are killed on the job annually.  Working from my phone,  so not smart enough to provide the link,  but it is from Business Insider, quoting a book by Christopher Mims, if you want to look it up. Try to remember that cruise ships make up about 5% of world shipping, so there are thousands, if not tens of thousands, of pilot boardings every day all around the world. 

The same article states that between 2007 and 2021 8 harbor pilots just in the US have died. 

Edited March 31 by chengkp75

[PATRLR]

2 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The actual statistic is that pilots have a 1 in 20 chance of dying on the job.

Yes, thank you (and I did see that).  Of course "1 in 20 chance of dying on the job" is a much different stat than "1 in 20 percent of dying every time he boards a ship".

[dlh015]

Deleted...wrong link...

Edited March 31 by dlh015

[chengkp75]

Thanks,  yes. I've personally known of 3 US pilots being killed. 

[WonderMan3]

29 minutes ago, icft said:

 

Calm down my man. No need to stroke out. I think everyone got you point and they have moved on to another point that also supports the position of NCL not being the bad guy. Folks accepting your point and not arguing about it is a good thing...

Dude chill out. People kept responding to my comment when I had already clearly explained my point. They either weren't bothering to read through the thread or just felt like arguing. You're now just perpetuating it all with yet another response. Move on please...

[ChiefMateJRK]

17 hours ago, G-DawgMN said:

Obviously NCL should have let them on somehow. That’s an extenuating circumstance. 

No.  The cruise lines have an established process for passengers to board.  You can't just "somehow" change the rules on the fly.  No Captain in his right mind would do so without clear, documented corporate approval.

[G-DawgMN]

Just now, ChiefMateJRK said:

No.  The cruise lines have an established process for passengers to board.  You can't just "somehow" change the rules on the fly.  No Captain in his right mind would do so without clear, documented corporate approval.

It was sarcasm!!! At least my post was. 😉

[ChiefMateJRK]

15 minutes ago, G-DawgMN said:

It was sarcasm!!! At least my post was. 😉

🤣Thx.  It's sometimes hard to separate the two S's on the internet (sarcasm and stupid).

[G-DawgMN]

1 minute ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

🤣Thx.  It's sometimes hard to separate the two S's on the internet (sarcasm and stupid).

 I should follow the general rule. If a sentence ends in … it’s sarcasm. 

[JGmf]

Countdown to thread being locked...10, 9, 8, 7, 6....

[yakcruiser]

On the positive side think about all the new experiences these folks will have. They will see things and meet people most of us never will. Things rarely go according to plan when traveling and you can either complain or make the best of it.

[Distinctive-Destinations]

1 hour ago, PATRLR said:

Yes, thank you (and I did see that).  Of course "1 in 20 chance of dying on the job" is a much different stat than "1 in 20 percent of dying every time he boards a ship".

“1 in 20 percent chance” doesn’t even make sense regardless. Does that mean a 5% chance?

 

I don’t know mortality rates but my grandfather was in the merchant marine for 20 years and didn’t die from that…lol

[ChiefMateJRK]

30 minutes ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Thx.  It's sometimes hard to separate the two S's on the internet (sarcasm and stupid).

 

19 minutes ago, yakcruiser said:

On the positive side think about all the new experiences these folks will have. They will see things and meet people most of us never will. Things rarely go according to plan when traveling and you can either complain or make the best of it.

🤣Okay, now THAT'S sarcasm.  Maybe I get it "sometimes."😎

 

However, my friend @yakcruiserapparently didn't know about the "....." rule.

[ChiefMateJRK]

13 minutes ago, Distinctive-Destinations said:

“1 in 20 percent chance” doesn’t even make sense regardless. Does that mean a 5% chance?

 

I don’t know mortality rates but my grandfather was in the merchant marine for 20 years and didn’t die from that…lol

Well, a 1 in 4 chance means probability of 1 divided by 4, or 25% chance.

 

20% = .2

1/.2 = 500 percent chance.  IOW, they're already dead.....five times over.

 

Somebody get @IAcruisingover here to (again) check on my grasp of how percentages work.  If need be, I'll mix some calculus in there to try to save my case (again).

[kd1044]

2 hours ago, ggTexasGal said:

Several people have made statements that NCL will pay to get them to the next port if the Shore Excursion was booked with NCL.

I used to believe that to be true, however, I've been researching the NCL website to locate just where any of us might find that information.  What I found is quite contrary to that...

 

https://www.ncl.com/faq#!#shorex-terms-conditions    However, scroll to the bottom and note:

 Important Information NCL makes arrangements for Guests for Shore Excursions solely for the convenience of the Guest; NCL does not act on behalf of or supervise the parties or persons who own, furnish, or operate such excursions, and the same are provided by independent contractors. NCL assumes no responsibility for, nor guarantees the performance of, any such excursion provider, and Guests acknowledge that NCL shall not be liable for losses or injuries arising from the acts or omissions of such provider.

 

Also see: 

https://www.ncl.com/sites/default/files/NCL_Guest_Ticket Contract_US_EN_02_2023.pdf

 

page 10, Independent Contractor, (a) (bottom of that page)

9. Independent Contractors: (a) Off-Vessel Transport and Activities: The Guest recognizes and agrees that, if and when the Carrier makes arrangements for the Guest for air transportation, hotel accommodations, ground transfers, shore excursions, medical care and/or for other transportation, activities, services, facilities or amusements occurring off of the vessel, the Carrier does so solely for the convenience of the Guest, the Carrier does not act on behalf of or supervise the parties or persons who own, furnish, or operate such conveyances, services or facilities, and the same are provided by independent contractors who work directly for the Guest and Guest is subject to such terms, if any, appearing in the tickets, vouchers or notices of such party or parties. Therefore, the Guest agrees that the Carrier assumes no responsibility for, nor guarantees the performance of, any such person, party, contractor, service or facility, and that the Carrier shall not be liable for losses or injuries arising from the acts or omissions of such person, party, contractor, service or facility.

 

 

This is clearly listed in the NCL Website below.  The legal bit about the third-party contractors is for the liability of NCL.  The NCL Excursions tour operators are themselves individually insured.  If there are any issues on the excursion you would have to sue the tour operator and not NCL.  But the wait for delayed NCL excursions is true.  I have seen it several times. 

 

WHY BOOK WITH US?

We work with reputable, local tour operators to offer you a wide variety of excursions to choose from, in every port you’ll visit.

Flexibility & Convenience

We offer you flexibility, convenience and peace of mind.

• Dedicated pre-cruise and onboard specialists are available to assist you
• Convenience of one-stop shopping for all of the ports you’ll be visiting
• Flexibility to modify or cancel excursions without penalty up to 48 hours prior to arrival into port. Any exceptions are noted in the tour descriptions.
• In the event that your tour is delayed, we’ll hold the ship for you
• All tour operators are fully insured

 

 

[icft]

3 minutes ago, kd1044 said:

 

This is clearly listed in the NCL Website below.  The legal bit about the third-party contractors is for the liability of NCL.  The NCL Excursions tour operators are themselves individually insured.  If there are any issues on the excursion you would have to sue the tour operator and not NCL.  But the wait for delayed NCL excursions is true.  I have seen it several times. 

 

WHY BOOK WITH US?

We work with reputable, local tour operators to offer you a wide variety of excursions to choose from, in every port you’ll visit.

Flexibility & Convenience

We offer you flexibility, convenience and peace of mind.

• Dedicated pre-cruise and onboard specialists are available to assist you
• Convenience of one-stop shopping for all of the ports you’ll be visiting
• Flexibility to modify or cancel excursions without penalty up to 48 hours prior to arrival into port. Any exceptions are noted in the tour descriptions.
• In the event that your tour is delayed, we’ll hold the ship for you
• All tour operators are fully insured

 

 

That's how I read the legal bit also.

[PATRLR]

21 minutes ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Well, a 1 in 4 chance means probability of 1 divided by 4, or 25% chance.

 

20% = .2

1/.2 = 500 percent chance.  IOW, they're already dead.....five times over.

Funny, I was thinking 1/20 of a percent or 1/2000.  But on closer reading, I think your assessment is more correct (or, as more correct as one can be regarding a clearly erroneous statement).

[itsnotjustme]

On 3/30/2024 at 2:07 PM, MrsTocko said:

We have rarely booked outside the cruise line, but when we have, we make sure we are not cutting it too close to all aboard…

I am much more willing to book outside the cruise line or use public transportation or a rental car to go it on our own when there is either a very late departure or on overnight.

 

We had a ship excursion in Israel be significantly late (like 30 minutes after sailing time).  The tour guide added a stop at a local winery, where I suspect he received a kickback on all the sales. He also cut short on of the planned stops.  

 

When we arrived at the security gate for the port, there were seven other NCL passengers there.  They had messed up going out on their own and took a cab back to the port that was not allowed to pass through security.  After some heated exchanges between out tour operator and the Israeli security, these seven got on our bus and entered the port with us.

 

They were so relieved - they thought they missed the boat.  Lucky for them our excursion was so late!  

[Georgia_Peaches]

4 minutes ago, itsnotjustme said:

When we arrived at the security gate for the port, there were seven other NCL passengers there.  They had messed up going out on their own and took a cab back to the port that was not allowed to pass through security.

There are just some parts of the world where I won't book an excursion outside of the ship's offering...a situation like the one you described is the very reason why.  Those 7 passengers were very lucky.

[Distinctive-Destinations]

1 hour ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Well, a 1 in 4 chance means probability of 1 divided by 4, or 25% chance.

 

20% = .2

1/.2 = 500 percent chance.  IOW, they're already dead.....five times over.

 

Somebody get @IAcruisingover here to (again) check on my grasp of how percentages work.  If need be, I'll mix some calculus in there to try to save my case (again).

 

[needtravelbuddies]

I understand the ship not waiting, but why is it making it so difficult for them to reboard?

[julig22]

3 minutes ago, needtravelbuddies said:

I understand the ship not waiting, but why is it making it so difficult for them to reboard?

Several posts in this thread have already directly addressed that issue.

[G-DawgMN]

2 hours ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

 

🤣Okay, now THAT'S sarcasm.  Maybe I get it "sometimes."😎

 

However, my friend @yakcruiserapparently didn't know about the "....." rule.

 78.3 percent of the Internet follows that rule…

[luv2kroooz]

NCLs response is so amateur. I mean what a missed opportunity for them. They go on and talk about the rules and the signs and announcements, blah blah blah. 

 

"..... guests are responsible for ensuring they return to the ship at the published time, which is communicated broadly over the ship’s intercom, in the daily communication and posted just before exiting the vessel. Guests are responsible for any necessary travel costs to rejoin the ship at the next available port of call. When the guests did not return to the vessel at the all aboard time, their passports were delivered to the local port agents to retrieve when they returned to the port."

 

The above is all true by the way, but why rehash what has already been said in the news story?

 

A more skilled public relations response to the story might have read something like this. ..."regrettably, we acknowledge a group of 8 passengers chose to participate in an excursion operated by an independent third party and were delayed, and returned to the port after the ship had raised its anchors for departure.  It was always our intention to allow them to enjoy an uninterrupted vacation. However, we have a commitment to the 2,000 guests onboard to maintain a posted schedule. Furthermore, we have an unwavering commitment to the safety of our crew and our passengers. After consultations with senior officers and shoreside management, it was determined that the risk of injury to reboard the 8 passengers was simply too great, and accordingly, we stand ready to safely reboard them when the ship is docked in it's next port of call.

 

Then they could trot out all their cliches about how they regret this inconvenience, and they work hard to deliver memorable experiences, they remain at our service, and  the safety of  passengers is always front of mind. Big time missed opportunity here. Instead NCL just blamed the passengers, which is obvious to most fair thinking people. There were better ways for NCL communicate this.

Edited April 1 by luv2kroooz

[CynCyn]

11 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

She was not “dumped”. Her medical condition, whatever it was, could not be safely treated on board. And for HER safety and wellbeing, she was medically evacuated to a shore side medical facility. At that point, her travel insurance needs to handle her transport. 

Maybe they could have taken her thing to her……like her passport and meds.