Celebrity in Hot Water - Edge sailed too close to Kauai’s NaPali Coast

[Georgia_Peaches]

5 hours ago, Liao said:

That's SOP in many fields.

Understood.  In my field (middle school principal...retired...whew!) the reverse was true.  One was entitled to due process prior to being removed unless it was an egregious act of violence or impropriety towards/with a student.  I can appreciate that many professions do not operate in this manner.

[NMTraveller]

Any chance that this could be a meters to feet muff up?  They were planning on going 1000 meters close to shore and instead ended up within 1000 feet?  It does not seem likely, but ...

Edited May 4 by NMTraveller

[CruseKrazy]

There is a contextual thing about this event that may have been discussed above.  Some of us who booked this cruise long ago were slated to go to Lahaina. We were really disappointed when the sail by Kauai was announced in lieu due to the tragic fire in Lahaina.  Not X’s fault for sure but we saw the substitute as just another sea day after 5 in a row.  I asked Celebrity for compensation for the lost port and they denied it.  
 

Other ships like the Solstice got another night somwhere (on the big island?) but not Edge.  Several RC ships were accomodated it seems with an extra port night too but not Edge.  Hence our disappointment was high and our expectations low about the Na Pali coast sail by.  We thought we would be 5 km out and say to each other “Which island is that again?”.

 

Another thing is Captain Matt’s personality - extremely confident, almost cocky. He said in the talk on board about his career how difficult it is becoming captain.  The years of study, the personality vetting, the understudy work etc..  But one thing he made very clear is if he deviates from the approved cruise plan significantly he would be relieved of his duties at the next port.  Hence I find it hard to believe he knowingly violated the cruise plan or safety regulations etc. by sailing too close to Na Pali.

 

So perhaps he just wanted to exceed our expectations and give us a thrill. The whole cruise from Sydney to Honolulu exceeded our expectations so why not end it with a bang!  Ironic too because X’s new slogan is “Nothing comes close” (except the Edge lol!)

 

Our expectations were greatly exceeded.  Sorry those currently on board suffered the consequences by staying an extra night in Honolulu which is ironically what we had hoped for before the sail by.  Expectations have been increased.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 4 by CruseKrazy

[Northern Aurora]

@chengkp75:  Thank you so much for your post.  So nice to have someone with your experience and knowledge post versus speculation.

[Aloha23]

 

I obviously don’t have distances, but we did a Timelapse around the majority of Kauai that might provide some additional perspective. The first one is the segment from Nā Pali slowed down so you can see a little better during the rotations and the second one is the original full Timelapse. The phone was set up on the balcony of our 10th floor mid-ship cabin on the port side and we let it run for several hours.  
 

   

 

Edited May 4 by Aloha23

[NMTraveller]

14 minutes ago, Aloha23 said:

 

I obviously don’t have distances, but we did a Timelapse around the majority of Kauai that might provide some additional perspective. The first one is the segment from Nā Pali slowed down so you can see a little better during the rotations and the second one is the original full Timelapse. The phone was set up on the balcony of our 10th floor mid-ship cabin on the port side and we let it run for several hours.  
 

 

My Movie 1.mov 68.16 MB · 0 downloads   IMG_1024.mov 69.65 MB · 0 downloads  

 

Nice movies!

 

So much for the claims, ahem of being in deep water 🤣🤣🤣

Glad you made it back safe.

 

You got an excursion with a 1000 foot long cruise ship instead of a smaller boat...

Edited May 4 by NMTraveller

[Cap_D]

1 hour ago, CruseKrazy said:

Another thing is Captain Matt’s personality - extremely confident, almost cocky. He said in the talk on board about his career how difficult it is becoming captain.  The years of study, the personality vetting, the understudy work etc..  But one thing he made very clear is if he deviates from the approved cruise plan significantly he would be relieved of his duties at the next port.  Hence I find it hard to believe he knowingly violated the cruise plan or safety regulations etc. by sailing too close to Na Pali.

 

The vibe I get from many of the Celebrity Captains in their public talks is they may not have much supervision and be asked to be too many things.  (I should note that they've all been gracious with my family and for a few days are interesting role models for our child)   I have no doubt it requires years of commitment like any other profession. Yet, it's not like they are tested and scrutinized like airplane captains. Rather, at least on Celebrity, they become entertainers, tour guides, and vloggers plus all of the standard stuff.  

 

1 hour ago, CruseKrazy said:

Ironic too because X’s new slogan is “Nothing comes close” (except the Edge lol!)

 

Yet, they prominently show french fries in the ads, and likely would delete comments on their social feeds about this situation.  The lack of public response speaks volumes.  

Edited May 4 by Cap_D

[NMTraveller]

5 minutes ago, Cap_D said:

 The lack of public response speaks volumes.  

They will not admit liability ...

 

We will likely not know what caused this mess up...

[Cap_D]

23 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

They will not admit liability ...

 

We will likely not know what caused this mess up...

Eventually requests using U.S. federal and state freedom of information laws may net info from the relevant government agencies since it would seem the ship was well within U.S. waters.  This presumes the government gets involved, but does seem there is already Coast Guard records.  We can all keep track of Captain Matt the Comedian, and instead of asking trivial questions at the officer talks, Presidents cruise, etc. questions about Hawaii and the Edge bridge team should be asked.  Common sense and eyes would have suggested they were too close. 

Edited May 4 by Cap_D

[NMTraveller]

24 minutes ago, Cap_D said:

Eventually requests using U.S. federal and state freedom of information laws may net info from the relevant government agencies since it would seem the ship was well within U.S. waters. 

Eventually is the key word here.  The uproar will have died down by then.  I never did figure out what happened when the RCL ship went out into 30 footers and burned out the azipod...

 

24 minutes ago, Cap_D said:

Common sense and eyes would have suggested they were too close. 

I agree 110%.  Were they both blind and deaf?

Time for Captain Obvious to be hired...

 

 

Edited May 4 by NMTraveller

[Georgia_Peaches]

1 hour ago, Cap_D said:

Yet, it's not like they are tested and scrutinized like airplane captains.

Unless you have personal experience and inside knowledge to support this, it remains an opinion and one that is speculative, at that.

 

1 hour ago, Cap_D said:

Rather, at least on Celebrity, they become entertainers, tour guides, and vloggers plus all of the standard stuff.  

I have never sought the attention of the captain of any cruise ship.  I don't care if they have a sense of humor or are entertaining.  Further, I have no desire to mingle with the captain nor do I care if he/she is personable or approachable.  The only thing I care about is getting from all points safely and efficiently.  I agree that many captains have become a personality of sorts, many with personified celebrity status.  Captain Kate comes to mind with her videos and behind-the-scenes looks into her quarters and even her cat.  At the end of the day, all this seems to have resulted in people confusing their maritime expertise with their celebrity persona.  I do not for one second believe that the captain at the helm of any Celebrity cruise ship lacks common sense or the ability to navigate the waters in which we cruise.  Rather, I defer to the 48 hour rule...which is to let things unfold as they will, and @chengkp75's explanation of the likely chain of command regarding navigation and applicable notes and rules there in.  All else is opinion and speculation...in my opinion, of course.

Edited May 4 by Georgia_Peaches

[yogini06]

https://youtu.be/UV8sjG8FX2E?si=b0iXfMQ8guibhJdr

 

This report includes a statement from the USCG that the ship did not violate Federal law.  However the state may have other laws and regulations they may have violated 

[Georgia_Peaches]

6 minutes ago, yogini06 said:

This report includes a statement from the USCG that the ship did not violate Federal law.  However the state may have other laws and regulations they may have violated 

Thank you for posting this link.  I noticed that some of the footage in the video offers a more realistic vantage point of distance from shore.  Still too close for comfort but not as close as some of the pics in this thread suggest.  Again, I go back to my 48 hour rule...more and more information unfolding.  I have no doubt that the state of HI will have something to say about this which should prompt regulations to ensure that this doesn't happen again.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, Cap_D said:

Yet, it's not like they are tested and scrutinized like airplane captains.

I, and most Captains I know would disagree with this.  What is your basis of information on this?

 

1 hour ago, Cap_D said:

This presumes the government gets involved, but does seem there is already Coast Guard records.

This was not a "marine incident", since there was no damage to the ship, or injury to a person, so this would fall under Hawaiian jurisdiction, not USCG, and since this is a state created protected zone, I don't believe EPA would be involved either.

 

1 hour ago, Cap_D said:

Common sense and eyes would have suggested they were too close. 

Unless you were there, and have experience in ship handling, this is pure speculation

 

1 hour ago, NMTraveller said:

I never did figure out what happened when the RCL ship went out into 30 footers and burned out the azipod...

Nothing happened to the Captain, RCI did amend their SMS to improve the decision making chain regarding operating in heavy weather.  And, he didn't burn out an azipod, he wore out the clutches on the azimuthing gear, so the azipod was harder to keep on track.  And, frankly, 30 foot seas are not all that dangerous.

 

1 hour ago, NMTraveller said:

Time for Captain Obvious to be hired...

This based on your vast years of experience as a ship's Captain, navigation officer, or even helmsman?  I don't believe for a moment that the ship or passengers were in any danger from this maneuver.  I am bothered that it happened in a protected zone, and that that zone was not recognized when planning the passage, but because I was not there, I would never question the judgement of a Captain, on scene, when no difficulties arise from his actions.

 

1 hour ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

At the end of the day, all this seems to have resulted in people confusing their maritime expertise with their celebrity persona.

I tend to agree with this.  Many passengers feel that the "best" Captains are the ones that are out and about with the passengers all the time, schmoozing.  Personally, I feel that the best Captains are those who spend the vast majority of their time with the crew, getting to know them, and encouraging the crew to perform at their best for the passengers, as personal leadership results in the best performance of subordinates.  And, the Captain's job is to get the crew to perform at their best, not to hang out with the passengers.

[cruisetonowhere10]

5 hours ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

Understood.  In my field (middle school principal...retired...whew!) the reverse was true.  One was entitled to due process prior to being removed unless it was an egregious act of violence or impropriety towards/with a student.  I can appreciate that many professions do not operate in this manner.

I too am a middle school educator and currently my district removes people, investigates after, even for things that are not always egregious.  Very low tolerance and most are then encouraged or forced to leave. 

[NMTraveller]

14 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Nothing happened to the Captain, RCI did amend their SMS to improve the decision making chain regarding operating in heavy weather.  And, he didn't burn out an azipod, he wore out the clutches on the azimuthing gear, so the azipod was harder to keep on track.  And, frankly, 30 foot seas are not all that dangerous.

The captain was not the captain on the next cruise (our cruise).  Please provide documentation and news stories ...  This was widely talked about amongst the crew and cruisers...

[NMTraveller]

28 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

This based on your vast years of experience as a ship's Captain, navigation officer, or even helmsman?  I don't believe for a moment that the ship or passengers were in any danger from this maneuver.  I am bothered that it happened in a protected zone, and that that zone was not recognized when planning the passage, but because I was not there, I would never question the judgement of a Captain, on scene, when no difficulties arise from his actions.

 

Provide CURRENT depth contours (if they exist) and the ship's position over time and we can laugh about this later...

We can talk about how close they came to beaching it...  They are close.  How close is the question...  From passenger video it looks like they were very close ...  Dang videos ...  The passenger reports of sand in the wash also mean that they were rather shallow...

 

My escapades are on a much smaller boat.  There is no way that I would go this shallow with this large of a draft and unknown dept contours with this big of a ship.  You can roll the dice, but eventually you lose.

Edited May 5 by NMTraveller

[shipshape sam]

On 5/2/2024 at 1:29 PM, PTC DAWG said:

Easier to ask for forgiveness than permission applies here? 
 

what was harmed? 

I say no. But Celebrity could be fined and prohibited from sailing that area at a minimum. Cruise lines have, in past, been banned from sailing in certain areas for needless violations.

[markeb]

4 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

The captain was not the captain on the next cruise (our cruise).  Please provide documentation and news stories ...  This was widely talked about amongst the crew and cruisers...

Can you provide documentation something DID happen to the captain? Because if nothing happened, there are probably no news stories or documentation. Maybe it was time to rotate. Maybe they moved them temporarily for PR purposes to investigate. And reinstated them when the review found they needed to revise procedures. 

[happy5]

On the ship now and VERY disappointed on the itenerary change., day 2 was cruising the coast.. which made up for missing Maui.. day one at night told we were going to Hilo day 2 and 3… those with excursions on both days were out of luck.. was told j” just get on your phone and book your own thru visitor” by both the excursion desk and the retreat concierge.. we were refunded for the excursion we missed on day 4 but had no time to rebook it.. I understand missing Maui but to be told 1 and 1/2 days in Kona makes up for missing day two cruising is not acceptable and certainly not the Celebrity I know.. no compensation for having the rug pulled out and having to scramble on our own to do something our first day in Hilo.. there were NO Cruise excursions planned for us.

Have heatd no compensation for being treated like this for the beginning of a cruise.

should we expect something??

[kwokpot]

1 hour ago, happy5 said:

On the ship now and VERY disappointed on the itenerary change., day 2 was cruising the coast.. which made up for missing Maui.. day one at night told we were going to Hilo day 2 and 3… those with excursions on both days were out of luck.. was told j” just get on your phone and book your own thru visitor” by both the excursion desk and the retreat concierge.. we were refunded for the excursion we missed on day 4 but had no time to rebook it.. I understand missing Maui but to be told 1 and 1/2 days in Kona makes up for missing day two cruising is not acceptable and certainly not the Celebrity I know.. no compensation for having the rug pulled out and having to scramble on our own to do something our first day in Hilo.. there were NO Cruise excursions planned for us.

Have heatd no compensation for being treated like this for the beginning of a cruise.

should we expect something??

Truth be told I would have preferred our ship,the Ovation, had stopped in Hilo vs the Na'pali Coast sail by we had which was also a substitute for the Lahaina port stop. A Hilo port stop in addition to a Kona stop allows one to visit the most important Big Island attraction on the Big Island, Volcanos National Park. The Chain of Craters Road down to the end of the Big Island remains one of the most memorable things to see in all of Hawaii.

Edited May 5 by kwokpot

[KelJ]

Just now, kwokpot said:

Truth be told I would have preferred our ship,the Ovation, had stopped in Hilo vs the Na'pali Coast sail by we had which was also a substitute for the Lahaina port stop. A Hilo port stop in addition to a Kona stop allows one to visit the most important og Island attraction on the Big Island, Volcanos National Park. The Chain of Craters Road down to the end of the Big Island remains one of the most memorable things to see in all of Hawaii.

I was on that Ovation cruise, and I completely agree with you. 

[happy5]

I don’t have a problem with the second day in Kona.. my issue is how we were treated on day one!

and no help with excursions on day 2.

no compensation for missing the excursion we picked for day 4… I realize they gave us the $ back on OBC but nothing for the hassle of trying to do something in the morning of day 2 before docking around noon.i am just wondering if this is the new celebrity? No apology and no help.

 

[msolok]

42 minutes ago, happy5 said:

i am just wondering if this is the new celebrity?

 

This is just how things tend to go with cruising. Itineraries, schedules and everything are very susceptible to changes. While they do try and make everything happen, sometimes things don't work out and things need to change. I don't think I have ever been on a cruise line that has offered $ for the "hassle" of a changed itinerary.

[Cap_D]

Has Edge modified the shipboard schedule and food offerings to adjust for the new schedule and any port cancelation(s) (I can't keep track)?   Fully realize schedule and port cancelations can occur, but the cause here (unless weather is an issue) is entirely Celebrity.