Azamara. Dishonesty, incompetence and indifference.

[blag]

6 minutes ago, Ayden said:

If shared is a concern, because it often can be, then try Stefano Rome Cabs. We have used them each and every time and they won't disappoint. From the port to the car is quite close. 

Thanks. I'll contact them. 

[DavyWavey70]

3 hours ago, Grandma Cruising said:

Did you have an invoice setting out what you had paid for, or take a screen shot showing it as an add-on in your account?

Yes it’s all in the confirmation.

 

3 hours ago, uktog said:

Im not defending the agent who has upset you but people make mistakes- they and the company are not dishonest they just make mistakes. 
 

Sorry, my wording was sloppy. It was the Azamara agent that’s been lying to me, not my TA. 

[uktog]

8 minutes ago, DavyWavey70 said:

Yes it’s all in the confirmation.

 

Sorry, my wording was sloppy. It was the Azamara agent that’s been lying to me, not my TA. 

And to repeat the agent may have made a mistake, accusing someone of lying implies a deliberate act to deceive you - I suspect your evidence on that claim would not stack up. Why would they deliberately be trying to deceive customers given how precise and demanding UK consumer legislation is?

I fully recognise a mistake may have been made, perhaps just as you have done, wording has been sloppy.  Things may not be correct on the IT record - but that is not deceit.  

The only mistake from what you have told us that I can see is that the Azamara agent spoke to you - you should have been told to route your call through your travel agent.  That is what you should be doing now and there are well established routes for UK agents, particularly those who do bundled packages as you have bought, to escalate items to Azamara.

[Grandma Cruising]

If you have everything written out in the confirmation from your travel agent, you have a contract with them and they have to make sure you get what is in your confirmation.

[blag]

7 minutes ago, uktog said:

And to repeat the agent may have made a mistake, accusing someone of lying implies a deliberate act to deceive you - I suspect your evidence on that claim would not stack up. Why would they deliberately be trying to deceive customers given how precise and demanding UK consumer legislation is?

I fully recognise a mistake may have been made, perhaps just as you have done, wording has been sloppy.  Things may not be correct on the IT record - but that is not deceit.  

The only mistake from what you have told us that I can see is that the Azamara agent spoke to you - you should have been told to route your call through your travel agent.  That is what you should be doing now and there are well established routes for UK agents, particularly those who do bundled packages as you have bought, to escalate items to Azamara.

We don't know all the facts.

[blag]

Just now, Grandma Cruising said:

If you have everything written out in the confirmation from your travel agent, you have a contract with them and they have to make sure you get what is in your confirmation.

But, what happens if Azamara have included something (and is reneging, as in my case) but the TA has not specifically included these?

In the case of excursions and other add-ons I have dealt direct with Azamara, either in person whilst onboard, or via the Azamara online interface. In fact, AFAIK this seems to be the conventional protocol. 

 @DavyWavey70 may be contending with with a similar situation. 

[uktog]

15 minutes ago, blag said:

But, what happens if Azamara have included something (and is reneging, as in my case) but the TA has not specifically included these?

In the case of excursions and other add-ons I have dealt direct with Azamara, either in person whilst onboard, or via the Azamara online interface. In fact, AFAIK this seems to be the conventional protocol. 

 @DavyWavey70 may be contending with with a similar situation. 

It’s a bundled package @Riocca explained before, the rules relating to them are different. By creating a package holiday whilst it gives restrictions it also has other advantages. All no cost  inclusions are via the packaged product and aren’t set up by the guest. 
There are a couple of large UK internet based agencies who create packaged bundles and attract guests with what looks like a fantastic deal but my previous experience with one is they come unstuck if adjustments are needed 

Whatever has happened here, accusing people of lying without giving all the specifics is uncalled for and the only person who can resolve this is the travel agent 

 

Mistakes do not equal lies 

[blag]

2 minutes ago, uktog said:

accusing people of lying without giving all the specifics is uncalled for

I concur.

But we do not know all the facts.

Maybe, just maybe...

[blag]

3 minutes ago, uktog said:

All no cost  inclusions are via the packaged product and aren’t set up by the guest. 

In my case, I selected a no-cost option (add-on) direct with Azamara.

I booked the cruise whilst on board, transferred it to my TA. I subsequently booked the no-cost option myself, independently, and Azamara confirmed it (at zero cost) in their invoice, which was presented to me by my TA.

I fail to see how this was not 'set up by the guest'. 

 

[uktog]

9 minutes ago, blag said:

In my case, I selected a no-cost option (add-on) direct with Azamara.

I booked the cruise whilst on board, transferred it to my TA. I subsequently booked the no-cost option myself, independently, and Azamara confirmed it (at zero cost) in their invoice, which was presented to me by my TA.

I fail to see how this was not 'set up by the guest'. 

 

You don’t have a packaged bundle which is what I was referring to. These can’t be booked onboard and an onboard booking can’t be transferred into a bundle. A bundle usually has flights, cruise, possibly some hotels, transfers or even one excursion arranged by the agent. 

Edited May 25 by uktog

[Riocca]

1 hour ago, uktog said:

It’s a bundled package @Riocca explained before, the rules relating to them are different. By creating a package holiday whilst it gives restrictions it also has other advantages. All no cost  inclusions are via the packaged product and aren’t set up by the guest. 
There are a couple of large UK internet based agencies who create packaged bundles and attract guests with what looks like a fantastic deal but my previous experience with one is they come unstuck if adjustments are needed 

Whatever has happened here, accusing people of lying without giving all the specifics is uncalled for and the only person who can resolve this is the travel agent 

 

Mistakes do not equal lies 

I think the biggest mistake is the Azamara agent trying to help the customer, having spoken to the new U.K. call centre yesterday they are very keen to help but need to be a little stronger in saying no when they should.

 

I’ve got a good idea which TA is involved and a short while ago friends booked one of these packaged bundles that included an Azamara cruise. One of the other elements was provided by a very well known travel operator, our friends wanted to upgrade a flight so contacted the TA who said not possible so then contacted the tour company who correctly said no it’s not possible to make any changes to the booking. As it happened they were able to upgrade with the airline at check in but are now saying they wouldn’t ever book anything with the tour operator as they were uncooperative.

 

These travel agents bundled holidays can be great value, in fact our friends payed less for the bundle than Azamara were selling the same cabin grade cruise only, but customers are not often made aware of the limitations of making changes.

[DavyWavey70]

2 hours ago, blag said:

I concur.

But we do not know all the facts.

Maybe, just maybe...

Well the Az agent categorically stating several times that nobody from the agency has contacted them at all to rectify the situation is absolutely untrue. My TA has the names and times of people that they have spoken to. Had the Az agent stated that they "couldn't see any record of" or "I'm unable to access that information"  then I wouldn't question their honesty for a second but they repeated to me several times that my TA had not contacted them to confirm the details. I Don't wish to debate semantics so I'll just leave it there. Thanks for the advice all. 

[blag]

17 minutes ago, DavyWavey70 said:

Well the Az agent categorically stating several times that nobody from the agency has contacted them at all to rectify the situation is absolutely untrue. My TA has the names and times of people that they have spoken to. Had the Az agent stated that they "couldn't see any record of" or "I'm unable to access that information"  then I wouldn't question their honesty for a second but they repeated to me several times that my TA had not contacted them to confirm the details. I Don't wish to debate semantics so I'll just leave it there. Thanks for the advice all. 

I was trying to say that we had insufficient information to dismiss the possibility that Azamara's agent misled you.

[nordski]

5 hours ago, Ayden said:

If shared is a concern, because it often can be, then try Stefano Rome Cabs. We have used them each and every time and they won't disappoint. From the port to the car is quite close. 

We have also used Romecabs and highly recommend their service.

[Host Jazzbeau]

I have stayed out of this discussion because I am aware that UK laws regarding travel protections are unique, so none of my experience is relevant.  I suggest others leave this to the UK posters, who have the relevant experience and knowledge.

[DavyWavey70]

8 hours ago, blag said:

I was trying to say that we had insufficient information to dismiss the possibility that Azamara's agent misled you.

I Appreciate that Blag, thank you for your contribution.

 

6 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

I have stayed out of this discussion because I am aware that UK laws regarding travel protections are unique, so none of my experience is relevant.  I suggest others leave this to the UK posters, who have the relevant experience and knowledge.

Thanks Host JB. As you may remember I took a cruise on X this past January and had none of these problems. I Was able to upgrade everything seamlessly through their website. I Booked excursions, speciality dining package, upgraded my drinks package and wifi and pre-paid for several bags of laundry without a single glitch and received everything that I paid for. MyTA informed me this time that excursions and any onboard extras needed to booked via Azamaras' website. If I shouldn't be amending or adding extras to my Azamara booking directly rather than going through my TA then why do Az grant me access to the "manage my booking" section of their website as directed (that does appears to run best on Windows 95) that does nothing than add utter confusion to the situation? I've been switched from an extremely eager guest that can't wait to try the line to someone that wonders if they can't run a website, what will the cruise be like. 

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

Azamara was founded as a branch of Celebrity and until the recent split their website was run by the Royal Caribbean Group, as Celebrity's still is.  It worked better.  Now that Azamara is independent they had to get their own IT provider, and SeaWare seems to be the only game in town.  SeaWare has many cruise line clients that have well-functioning websites, but their new clients all seem to have major teething problems [look at the Explora forum for similar complaints – and they are owned by MSC who has a good IT department, but for some reason they chose to go with SeaWare].  

 

Azamara's IT changeover was even more difficult because Royal's database was corrupted [or more likely just inscrutable because of the many hacks over the years in an old COBOL system] and Royal had no reason to help Azamara cope with the data issues.  [I had the 'pleasure' of managing just such a database changeover shortly before my retirement, so I understand how this goes down...]

 

Add that to the differences between US, UK, EU and other countries' rules – and Azamara's website and customer service has been a train wreck.  But most of the problems have been solved, and the new CEO seems committed to getting it all fixed – just not in time for your booking.

 

As to your particular issues, as I said I don't have any words of wisdom.  I can't even offer my usual advice of being patient because Azamara will eventually sort it out – your problems are different to any that I recall seeing before, so I have no clue what's going on or how to get it fixed.  UK customers do seem to have more problems with Azamara than those of us in the US.  Sorry.  

 

But I can offer the hope that once you get on board you will find that the Azamara shipboard experience is very nice indeed.  Even with all the problems, there are many loyal UK customers who are sticking with Azamara because the cruises are so good.

[DavyWavey70]

6 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Azamara was founded as a branch of Celebrity and until the recent split their website was run by the Royal Caribbean Group, as Celebrity's still is.  It worked better.  Now that Azamara is independent they had to get their own IT provider, and SeaWare seems to be the only game in town.  SeaWare has many cruise line clients that have well-functioning websites, but their new clients all seem to have major teething problems [look at the Explora forum for similar complaints – and they are owned by MSC who has a good IT department, but for some reason they chose to go with SeaWare].  

 

Azamara's IT changeover was even more difficult because Royal's database was corrupted [or more likely just inscrutable because of the many hacks over the years in an old COBOL system] and Royal had no reason to help Azamara cope with the data issues.  [I had the 'pleasure' of managing just such a database changeover shortly before my retirement, so I understand how this goes down...]

 

Add that to the differences between US, UK, EU and other countries' rules – and Azamara's website and customer service has been a train wreck.  But most of the problems have been solved, and the new CEO seems committed to getting it all fixed – just not in time for your booking.

 

As to your particular issues, as I said I don't have any words of wisdom.  I can't even offer my usual advice of being patient because Azamara will eventually sort it out – your problems are different to any that I recall seeing before, so I have no clue what's going on or how to get it fixed.  UK customers do seem to have more problems with Azamara than those of us in the US.  Sorry.  

 

But I can offer the hope that once you get on board you will find that the Azamara shipboard experience is very nice indeed.  Even with all the problems, there are many loyal UK customers who are sticking with Azamara because the cruises are so good.

Thank you Host JB for your insight. Unfortunately for somebody that has one “vacation” a year that is planned out to the minute, this is unnerving me. My Autism doesn’t let me rest until things are settled and the stock response of “you can sort that out once onboard’” leaves me unable to sleep at night. I’ve invested hundreds of hours research into this trip. I’ve researched the best Safari lodges to visit before joining the tour, I’m ready to push the button on Emirates first class flights. My partner is set to fly out to meet me for a couple of nights at the Burj al Arab on my way home and the 3 furbaby sitters are ready to be confirmed. This isn’t just a holiday. One thing that I just can’t cope with is dishonesty. Incompetence is manageable but outright dishonesty rattles me to the end. 

[camella]

On 5/25/2024 at 4:27 AM, blag said:

I checked them out. Looks good, realistic price, and the time of departure suits us.

Just two questions occur to me... 

1: the provider's blurb states there will be a meet-and-greet, but how far is the vehicle from the meeting point? 

2: what is the maximum number of passengers in the vehicle? 

We just got back from a cruise Rome to Ravenna and used sharedshuttle.it.  Our experience was wonderful.  They contacted us prior to picking us up - we were staying at the airport Hilton and they picked us up right in front of the hotel.  There was one other couple in the van but it could have accommodated four more.  The other couple was already in the van when we were picked up.  He dropped them off at their ship and then dropped us off at our ship - there were different locations within the port.  Hope this helps!  It was 80 euros for both of us and we paid cash.

[blag]

6 minutes ago, camella said:

We just got back from a cruise Rome to Ravenna and used sharedshuttle.it.  Our experience was wonderful.  They contacted us prior to picking us up - we were staying at the airport Hilton and they picked us up right in front of the hotel.  There was one other couple in the van but it could have accommodated four more.  The other couple was already in the van when we were picked up.  He dropped them off at their ship and then dropped us off at our ship - there were different locations within the port.  Hope this helps!  It was 80 euros for both of us and we paid cash.

Thanks. I've been in touch with them.

Your review allays some of my concerns. The fact that they prefer a cash payment (or a PayPal +7% transaction) rather than payment by Credit Card is a worry. No comeback whatsoever if they fail to provide the service, but the consequences of a no-show would be much the same, irrespective of how payment is made. 

Edited May 26 by blag

[Sabbycat]

On 5/25/2024 at 2:46 AM, blag said:

This was not arranged by my TA/Tour Operator. It was an option offered by Azamara in their version of the Seaware app. Transfer from Fiumicino was offered by Azamara at a cost of zero; transfer to Barcelona airport had a price, but was irrelevant because we are staying for a day or two after the cruise.

This zero cost was probably a glitch, but never, in all our cruises with our Azamara, have we used their transfer service, so I had no frame of reference!

 

Thank you for the link for the Shared Shuttle service. I'll give them a try. 

 

I am still waiting for @Mrs Miggins to come up with info about her €70 transfer! 

 

 

AZ does not have an app, and so I am wondering if you have confused them with another cruise you may have booked. 

[blag]

57 minutes ago, Sabbycat said:

AZ does not have an app, and so I am wondering if you have confused them with another cruise you may have booked. 

No confusion whatsoever!

I did not say that Azamara has an app.

I can view my future cruises via Azamara's version of the 'Seaware' app, which is what I said in post #21 in this topic. See screenshot... 

Furthermore, all our future cruises are with Azamara.

[Grandma Cruising]

That’s interesting. Unfortunately we have all Apple devices so can’t try this app. It’s not available in the Apple Store.

Was the zero costed transfer also offered on the website version of your account?

[blag]

9 minutes ago, Grandma Cruising said:

Was the zero costed transfer also offered on the website version of your account?

I did not look at the Web version. I use this app. It seems to include everything I need.

 

There is a back-story to this zero-cost transfer.

I booked this short cruise via my usual TA as a 'filler' to allow us to get away in August, on the understanding that I would cancel it and re-book the same (preferred) suite once onboard in April when we qualified for the six free nights arising from loyalty progression whilst on the April/May cruise.

I was prepared to sacrifice the deposit in order to ensure that we secured the suite we wanted.

Being aware that the Future Sales staff were onboard cannot cancel a booking made by a TA, I went armed with a detailed letter from our TA authorising the onboard staff to cancel the cruise.

Although I lost the £500 deposit, I gained $800 OBC, and of course, six free nights gave us a substantial discount.

 

So, to get to the point: this cruise was booked twice.

In each booking (via the app) I was able to select a free transfer from FCO to Civitavecchia.

In each of three Azamara invoices prior to mid-May, this transfer is shown as having no cost associated with it. Only in mid-May did Azamara wake up to the fact that they had made an error, and issued a further invoice - after Final payment had been made.

As it happens, I have instructed my TA not to pursue this further with Azamara, because it sounds as if the shuttle provided by Azamara is unlikely to suit us for several reasons. 

 

 

[Grandma Cruising]

I’d be interested to hear if anyone else uses the Android Seaware app - it sound useful.

Edited May 27 by Grandma Cruising