RCCL is playing us against eachother and they know it.

[the_admiral]

Here's the dilema I have is that I don't own a suit. I'm getting to the point now where buying one and getting it tailored is going to be pretty tight in time for the cruise. A tux would have been a great option for me, but all the other guys have suits. I get a tux, and I've outdressed them, and I stick out even worse than if I was wearing jeans and a t-shirt.

[Host Kewlguy]

Im likeing this thread. Everyone is thinking about thier atire and others feelings. Nice.

 

Yes, you started a very entertaining/informative thread. Good job.

[Voyager]

I agree with much of what you said Voyager. Now comes the part - being heard. The cruiseline makes decisions to create the rules, enforce/not enforce them, change them, abolish them etc.. based on feedback they get from cruisers. However, it would be interesting if we could get a guest poster from RCCL's Marketing Department to give us a clue on what is the most effective way to commuicate our preferences? I imagine the calling or e-mailing customer service does very little (I've had questions answered 6 weeks to 2 months after I asked). They have the end of the cruise check-box grade card. I wonder how much impact they are? One thing else is the customer feedback form located at the Purser's Desk in most ships (they have a drop-off box). A Matre'D on the Radiance told me that he thought it was the best bet for asking for changes/improvements.

 

We have all sorts of ideas on what would be our preferences. So what do you all think is the most effective way of communicating this?

Since I have already posted my suggestions in my previous and original post. I will let my fellow posters post. Gosh that was a lot of "P" words................................. Post away!!:D

[cruiseman_tx]

I agree with much of what you said Voyager. Now comes the part - being heard. The cruiseline makes decisions to create the rules, enforce/not enforce them, change them, abolish them etc.. based on feedback they get from cruisers. However, it would be interesting if we could get a guest poster from RCCL's Marketing Department to give us a clue on what is the most effective way to commuicate our preferences? I imagine the calling or e-mailing customer service does very little (I've had questions answered 6 weeks to 2 months after I asked). They have the end of the cruise check-box grade card. I wonder how much impact they are? One thing else is the customer feedback form located at the Purser's Desk in most ships (they have a drop-off box). A Matre'D on the Radiance told me that he thought it was the best bet for asking for changes/improvements.

 

We have all sorts of ideas on what would be our preferences. So what do you all think is the most effective way of communicating this?

 

 

I just emailed a link to this thread to Richard Fain. Maybe he'll check it out, maybe he won't but at least it'll be sitting in his inbox tomorrow. ;)

[Voyager]

Yes, you started a very entertaining/informative thread. Good job.

 

Kewl, Thanks my friend. Its very nice to get a long here huh? Do me a fav? I'm gonna take a snoooooooze. Please make sure everyone plays nice, Or, how 'bout this?

 

THIS POST IS CLOSED TILL "SHE" GETS BACK!

And she means it................. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz with the occasional snork.....:D

[Voyager]

I just emailed a link to this thread to Richard Fain. Maybe he'll check it out, maybe he won't but at least it'll be sitting in his inbox tomorrow. ;)

GREAT job !! Loving you!

[GMoney]

Over the next few years, I think RCI is going to be much more focused on how to manage passenger behavior and mitigate risk in light of the recent incidents across multiple lines. I have to believe that things like passengers jumping overboard, passengers falling overboard, fire safety (especially on balconies), independent tours safety, onboard liquor consumption (by both underage and legal passengers) and smuggling of alcohol on board will all get more attention than enforcing rules about dress and pool usage.

 

Anything that threatens revenue or reputation will get the most attention. Everything else will continue to fall down the priority list.

[firsttimecruiser77]

 

Another interesting point as far as kids go =We have cruised in mid Sept to be as sure as we could that there would be no kids--To my amazement there were kids on the ship- as some parents think it is ok to keep them out of school--That wouldnt work when I was a kid or for my kids--of course people will have all kinds of excuses including the learning experience of a cruise--I have taken my kids on 5 cruises over the years but always during vacation time

 

We always take vacation when our kids are in school to avoid the crowds. They'll go on their first cruise in late 2007 but all of our vacations are when school is in. My MIL is a teacher and has that same mentality that one should never miss school but to me, I can teach them (and do teach them) as much as they learn at school if not more. School isn't the main place that learning occurs, IMO.

[firsttimecruiser77]

I couldn't agree more with Voyager. Its a little frustrating to have gone out and spent the money to look nice on a cruise and to find that people are showing up in jean shorts, tank tops, etc. It IS posted everywhere and so posting clearly isn't the answer because obviously some people simply do not care what the rules are. Its not that they don't know that its not appropriate to wear shorts and tanks tops into the main dining room! I just hate the attitude "The rules don't apply to me". Its very inconsiderate. I will say that on our recent cruise, the deck chair police were out and DH said he heard them telling people not to save chairs so maybe the complaints were heard on this one.

 

But, in the end, if RCCL makes the rules, they should enforce them because they are, after all, for the benefit of all guests!

[bh2359]

Wow, what a thread. With one single exception, totally civilized and thought provoking.

 

First, RCCL DOES read these posts. I was told that "someone" checks them everyday. I've also been told this by a Carnival upper-level employee.

 

At this time, cruising is extremely popular and ships are sailing full. As a result, there are a lot of new-builds coming, along with bigger and bigger ships. Here is what the problem will be in the future.

 

There will be so many ships that most of them will begin to sail half full or so. The cruise lines, now losing profits, will take a step back and say "What happened?"

 

What happened is that frequent cruisers got sick and tired of the poor enforcement and non-enforcement of the rules being discussed here. Let's be practical. Those with several small children are not the ones who take more than one cruise a year. Some of you here, like us, take two or three annually and it is US that the cruise lines should be catering to.

 

The comments about children, especially young ones, not to be in the hot tubs is a valid one and really should be enforced.

 

The formal dining question will, most likely, never get resolved. As one poster stated, this is a holdover from the trans-Atlantic days and with the mass marketing we now have, probably should be abolished. However, some people, as seen on these boards, DO like to dress up and others (myself included) who do not like formal nights, simply obey the rules and go to the buffet that evening. If everyone did this, there would be no problems, but they don't.

 

Want a solution? Drop the formal nights on all cruises less than seven days. On a seven day cruise, make the Captain's Reception night formal, period. Over seven nights, then have formal nights as usual.

 

At the same time, if ALL cruise lines would get together on this, make cruises of less than seven days more informal, rule-wise. I dare say that the problem with the younger set would also be solved as families with several children usually do not take the longer cruises (too expensive).

 

Rules could remain relaxed a bit on these shorter cruises but would be more rigidly enforced on the longer cruises. I do think that the regulars, those cruising two or three times per year, would be on these longer cruises and would WELCOME the cruise lines enforcing their rules on chair saving, dining rooms, seats in the theater, kids in the hot tubs, rough-housing in the pools, etc.

 

I also believe that the regular cruisers would continue to book two or three cruises a year and the scenerio I outlined above about cruise ships sailing only half full would not materialize.

 

How do you enforce these rules? Easy. You have a large number of cruise employees on deck every day serving drinks, handing out towels, cleaning up, etc. You could complain to any one of them about a potential chair hogger (a chair with a towel not sat in for 30 minutes or more). You could complain about kids in the hot tubs. You could complain about a toddler in the pool wearing diapers, and so on. These employees could gently explain to those not abiding by the rules that were posted. If there was no complience, that cruise person would simply and quietly call security.

 

After a couple months of people posting here and elsewhere that the rules ARE being enforced, the regular cruisers would welcome that and begin booking multiple cruises again.

 

Those that want a more lax attitude on board, could simply book three, four, or five day cruises, knowing that the rules would be a bit more lax on those cruises than on longer ones.

 

The best post on this thread, in my opinion, was the one a few pages back stating that the problem was having the rules enforced on one ship and not another, within the same cruise line. I totally agree. Either enforce or not but don't be wishy washy about it. Knowing ahead of time that I can book a five day cruise and not worry about having to pack formal attire will make me happy. Knowing that someone who looks forward to formal night can book a seven day or longer knowing that the dining room rules will be enforced, will make them happy.

 

And so on.

 

Sorry for the long long post but after reading these board regularly for such a long time and seeing the same arguments over and over, I agree that it is time for something to be done. You and I are not going to change it, the cruise lines must do it. BUT, as a previous poster stated, if we all logged in our complaints on our comment cards at the end of the cruise, they WILL sit up and take notice.

 

Thanks for reading all of this. Now take a pause to refresh and then go on!

[cruiseman_tx]

bh2359...great post, all the way from the panhandle. :)

[Dave85]

Over the next few years, I think RCI is going to be much more focused on how to manage passenger behavior and mitigate risk in light of the recent incidents across multiple lines. I have to believe that things like passengers jumping overboard, passengers falling overboard, fire safety (especially on balconies), independent tours safety, onboard liquor consumption (by both underage and legal passengers) and smuggling of alcohol on board will all get more attention than enforcing rules about dress and pool usage.

 

Anything that threatens revenue or reputation will get the most attention. Everything else will continue to fall down the priority list.

 

Yeah I agree with that 100%, unfortunately. It's not unfortunate in the sense that they're going to be more concerned about passenger safety and tighter enforcement of drinking regulations... that's quite necessary. It will, however, limit the amount of attention that higherups will pay to certain quality control issues, such as the ones that have been discussed in this thread. I think the extent of the link of any issue to the revenue stream is the paramount factor determining how much (if any) serious attention is paid.

 

That being said, I'm confident that if you try hard enough you will be heard. Doesn't mean they'll do anything, but someone will at least be listening. If it matters to you then go for it. Don't think for a second that all the major cruise lines don't have people monitoring these boards.

[Ladylouwho]

Personally, on the cruises I have been on, the people in the dining room always seemed well dressed to me. Are people wearing floor length formals on formal night??? No, not everyone, but people usually look dressed up and well coiffed. Our society has gone ultra casual over the last two decades. Has anyone noticed? When I used to work (20 years ago now), I wore a dress suit, hose, high heels, and carried a brief case. Everyday!!! There was no such thing as "casual Fridays". Now, my husband's company (Fortune 500) has casual dress, everyday! Have you been to Church lately? When I was growing up in the '60's you wore a dress to Mass, with a hat and often gloves. Do you dress that way when you go to Church now? I remember the first few times I flew on an airplane, everyone dressed up, even the Flight Attendants (Stewardesses then) wore skirts and high heels. How often do you see people dressed up on an airplane? In every way we as Americans dress down from the way we did one or two, or especially more decades ago. Why is it so hard to believe this isn't carried over to the mainstream cruise lines? RCCL is mainstream and economically priced. If you want a quiet cruise with people dressed in designer formals there are many cruise lines to choose from, just expect to pay much, much more for it.

 

As far as all the children on cruises, I agree children should not be allowed in "Adults Only" areas, but to say as some have, that people with children don't generally go on 7 day cruises or don't cruise often is just plain wrong. We took our whole family on a 12 night European RCCL cruise last summer and every other cruise we took (always with the whole family) was at least 7 nights. On our European cruise there were tons of families, many with little kids, at least four families that we saw with five young children. We generally cruise once a year and currently have three family cruises booked over the next two years. Many, many of our friends with children cruise all the time.

 

I agree, if there are rules about dress codes and adults only areas they should be enforced. But to expect a throwback to the days when people dressed to the nines and there were few, if any, children, well then cruise when the kids are in school or pick a more expensive cruise line. I always enjoy our cruises and for the most part think people dress fine and the kids are generally well behaved. Frankly, I am usually having too good of a time to worry about what everyone else is dressed like or what their kids are doing. I always make sure my kids behave and that we are all well dressed for dinner. And from what I have observed most other families do the same. Hope y'all enjoy your upcoming cruises, we go again in 2 months!!!!

[36kruzes]

I think formal nights should be abolished altogether. I think the fares should go up and be all inclusive including tips and all beverages. I dress up because I have to not because i want to pack and shlep formal wear and heels half way around the world.

 

Hello Karyn8 --

 

I sure agree with you about not wanting to haul heels and such all over the world so you can appear "dressed up" in a ship's dining room. What about "resort casual" being enough? Nice shirts and slacks for men, and casual dresses or slacks for women should be adequate. In the Caribbean or Mexico, it is C A S U A L, and at any resort there you would not see people dressed up as if for prom. Those of you who WANT to weigh yourselves down with excess luggage, fine. Just don't expect everyone to think this is fun -- it isn't. And stop telling us to eat in Windjammer or wherever. This is VACATION and casual should be allowed, excluding torn jeans or tank tops and sandals, of course.

 

36 cruises since 1981 and I have never seen more than a handful of men on ANY ship from budget to high-end in a tuxedo. And I've never seen anyone refused service on formal night because they weren't dressed up enough, either. I HAVE seen torn tee-shirts or bare feet or shorts refused in the dining rooms, but that's about it. To each his own; so long as everyone is tidy in appearance that should be all that matters.

[NHRedSoxFan]

I see by your signature that you've only cruised on RCL. Maybe it's time to try something else.

 

Well, I totally agree with your posting, but what I've also noticed is that Royal Caribbean has changed the most. Consider their advertising. They are trying to attract the younger mass market and it's working. Not only don't they enforce the rules you mention in the beginning of this thread, but the quality of the food has become more 'cafeteria'.

 

I choose a ship for the itinerary, but if I were to go to the Caribbean again in wouldn't be with RCL, there's just too many other options.

[Silvery Seas Cruiser]

Based on the many messages above, I've just christened the new imaginary ship TRADITION of the SEAS, a small but luxuriously appointed Majesty OTS class ship which advertises strict adherence to more traditional ways of cruising, including formal attire every night except the first and last, but those nights dress is designated country club casual or smart casual.

 

There are plenty of deck chairs so no hogging is allowed or needed. Children under fourteen eat in a special children's dining room in which table etiquette is taught and appropriate country club casual is required, but one formal night is expected even for them.

 

Children are not allowed in hot tubs for adults. That is strictly enforced. Seats are not to be saved in the shows. No children may attend the late shows. children may not run up and down stairs as sport or ride elevators continuously for fun and thrills. No gentleman or lady ever drinks to excess and jumps overboard spoling the vacation of hundreds of others.

 

This ship does carry a surcharge for the extra crew required to enforce ever so politely the traditional rules of cruising and to maintain the elegnat ambiance of the fifties and before. TAs who book passengers on this ship explain in no uncertain terms that Tradition of the Seas is not a casual "anything goes" ship and is for only those passengers who prefer a more structured and well mannered cruise. Guaranteeing that expectation is what Tradition of the Seas is about as much as what itinerary it sails.

 

Let's let RCI know we demand that their next ship be Tradition of the Seas. (Or they could rename and retrofit one of their smaller, older ships.)

[Catnip]

I agree with the OP. I have been cruising since 1981 so I have noticed many, many changes in the cruise industry.....not all for the good. :rolleyes: I have seen the declining of RCCL from one of the "premier" cruise lines in the early 80's, to a mass-market line nowdays, and that is a shame.

I am one very much in favor of enforcing the rules! If you are going to have rules and regulations, then ENFORCE THEM! If that offends certain passengers, then so be it. If you have no intention of enforcing the rules, then don't have 'em! Things like no kids in the adult pool is a simple thing to enforce, as is proper dress in the dining room in the evenings. Chair hogs may be a tad bit more harder to control, but it certainly could be done.

[mae]

I really wasn't going to post again because I thought I had stated my opinions often enough, but you all just keep coming up with terrific comments. HeavyStuff, I don't think I'd mind your "Tradition of the Seas" once in a while for a change; Ladylouwho, you sum it up pretty well; LADCLAD, right on, the quality is really being sacrificed when just enforcing the rules set up would bring a lot of quality back at no expense to the cruise lines or the passenger. Again my compliments on keeping this thread civil, love it. I feel like I've made a bunch of new friends.

[Guest cvbart]

I can't understand how anyone can have a good time on a cruise knowing others onboard are not following all the rules.

 

Just shows the "anything goes- so deal with it" attitude of today cruisers.

 

Maybe they should just not cruise at all if they can't follow the rules.

 

I think we should go back to the good old days.

 

When only the rich could afford to cruise.

 

That should take care of it.

[tarheelmjfan]

You would think that cruise lines would be more interested in maintaining a more traditional experience. There are casual lines out there. One in particular consistently has the lowest fares in the business. Obviously, people aren't willing to pay more for the casual experience. Many of the things that have been mentioned are what sets cruising apart from other types of vacations. If a cruise vacation becomes a casual one where anything goes, they're going to have to be even more competetive to win customers for other vacation venues. Many people don't cruise for the ports. If you take away the atmosphere, you lose those customers.

 

I always find it interesting how many people have problems with kids on the ships. I don't like it when kids are unruly any more than anyone else does. However, I don't blame the kids at all. That's the parents fault. I do find it very funny when people complain about kids not following the rules, then refuse to make the effort to dress per the dress code. At least, the little ones have an excuse. They're kids.

 

The cruise lines could enforce the rules, if they chose. It wouldn't be that difficult to refuse entrance to the dining room for those not dressed properly, or to have someone on deck politely asking children (or the parents on their behalf) to not get in the hot tubs. Those guests may get extremely upset, & refuse to ever sail on that line again. If they won't follow the rules, why would that worry the line? Most people do follow the rules, & it's much more important to keep the masses happy. IMHO, if they continue to allow a decline in the experience, they're going to also lessen the value of their product.

[Mofred]

I cruise to escape to a world where you are waited on dress to the hilt . I love to dress up and be served. When I see people trying to change to everyday it gets my nose out of joint. What is wrong with getting dressed up. We go to work and do the same old same old, yet we admire the magazines and movie stars when they go to formal functions and get dressed up. The dining room is elegantly done so why not play the part for 5 days.

Lets live elegantly for a week and enjoy.

That is my take on the elegant situation.

[piphigoddess]

My b/f and I love cruising but we have decided for our wedding/honeymoon cruise we'll pay the extra money and cruise with one of the more formal companies like Holland or Princess. If RCCL and Carnival are going to be the casual cruise lines that's a great marketing strategy but I want my wedding/honeymoon to be on a more formal cruise line. Isn't that the beauty of multiple cruise lines with different perks?

[Cruising89143]

I agree with the OP. I have been cruising since 1981 so I have noticed many, many changes in the cruise industry.....not all for the good. :rolleyes: I have seen the declining of RCCL from one of the "premier" cruise lines in the early 80's, to a mass-market line nowdays, and that is a shame.

I am one very much in favor of enforcing the rules! If you are going to have rules and regulations, then ENFORCE THEM! If that offends certain passengers, then so be it. If you have no intention of enforcing the rules, then don't have 'em! Things like no kids in the adult pool is a simple thing to enforce, as is proper dress in the dining room in the evenings. Chair hogs may be a tad bit more harder to control, but it certainly could be done.

 

I agree Denise. If you are going to have the rules then enforce them or just tell everyone that it is a free for all. It's not hard to enforce chair hogs. All it takes is several crew members monitoring the chairs, hot tubs and the solarium for little ones. This also goes with all of the other rules that RCI has set. If people do not want to follow and they get mad then so be it. There are other cruise lines out there and they can move on.

 

The cruise lines IMHO are mainly responsible for all of the bad publicity that they have received due to not following their own policy.

[cruisin from florida]

I'm a teacher. I don't give a rule unless there is a consequence for not following the rule. The reason that "people don't think the rules apply to them" is that they DON'T! Imagine a highway with posted speed limits, but absolutely, guaranteed, NO enforcement. Speed limit 65? Fine. But what if I think I can run safely and get there sooner at 70, 75, 80.... and no one I know has ever known anyone who got a ticket - EVER. Is this a real rule? Over time, just how much do you think the average running speed would creep up? That's what's happened on the ships.

 

There's a guideline for good rules - it's called the 4 C's. Rules should be Clear, Concise, Consistently enforced, and have Consequences attached.

How many of RCCL's "rules" qualify? The only one I can think of is attendance for Muster drill. And THAT's because it's required by LAW.

 

RCCL has a "rule" that shorts are not allowed in the dining room in the evening (this is not their suggested attire - this is supposed to be a rule). I know I've seen shorts, many times. No enforcement. So, is it even really a rule?

[theotherchad]

I, like several others have previously on this thread, would like to say thanks to all for a civil conversation on a controversial set of issues.

I'm sort of in the middle of the road about my opinions. We love to dress up, but aren't overly concerned about those who don't. I've always been able to get a deck chair near the pool, maybe not the front row, but near enough. I bring a small bottle of liquor onboard, more for in cabin convenience than to save money.

But what I would really like to address hasn't been covered, yet, I don't think, in this thread.

Several have pointed out that RCCL people do review these boards and of course, do read the comment cards that are turned in onboard.

Here's the point. In making your opinions known, be specific.

Be specific about particular incidents.

Be specific about which ship.

Be specific about what time of year you cruised, and the particular sail date.

If possible, mention RCCL staff and crew members by name.

When general comments are relayed to managers, they typically don't take them too seriously, because generalities are easy to dismiss. Specific incidents, though, can be addressed, should they choose to do so.

 

I mention this because I think a lot of this stuff varies from ship to ship, and itinerary to itinerary, and also depends on the time of year.

 

I have never seen an egregious case of someone not dressed appropriately on formal night. I've seen tieless, jacketless men and women wearing slacks and a nice blouse, but I've never seen T-shirts, shorts, etc. This was in the spring and fall (not peak summer season) on the Rhapsody of the Seas, which, sailing out of Texas, you might expect to be extra casual, as Texas is a very casual state, compared to some other parts of the country.

I've never seen kids in the Solarium pool, or at Quest. In fact, I've seen relatively few kids, due to the time of year we cruise.

 

Again, though, if you want a real response, positive, negative or neutral, you have to be specific.

 

Thanks for listening to my two cents. :)