Unhappy with Zuiderdam

[jensenbeach]

Hi Guys - Just returned from Alaska aboard the Zuiderdam and have a question regarding HAL. We did not like the layout of the Zuiderdam at all. We LOVED the crew and cannot say enough good things about the service we received. This is our first cruise with HAL and would like to know if all their ships are similar to the Z and if not how do they differ. We did not care for the Lido - not enough tables and long lines for food and not enough variety. The layout of the ship is strange since so many of the public rooms are hidden and tucked into obscure places. We are in the process of booking another cruise and are ambivalent about HAL. Thanks for the feedback.

[Darrell6t]

The layout of the ship is strange since so many of the public rooms are hidden and tucked into obscure places.

 

I found this a strange comment and wonder if you would be more specific. Nearly all the public rooms are on only three floors and on those three floors, almost everywhere is public. I don't remember anything I would call "obscure". The disco's front entrance is not real obvious, but the back way is obvious.

 

FYI, the four Vista Class ships are nearly identical. Oosterdam, Westerdam, Noordam and Zuiderdam. The other ships have similar layouts, but are smaller and don't all match. The one unusual ship in their fleet is the Prinsendam, which is a fabulous smaller ship.

[Mary Ellen]

The Zuiderdam is a 'Vista' class ship and unfortunately you aren't the first (nor will you be the last) to feel that they did not like the layout at all. This is one of the reasons we don't expect to EVER sail on one. HAL does have other ships that we LOVE. You'll find a 'sticky' at the top of the threads "An Introduction to the Ships and Classes of the HAL Fleet" that lists which ships fall in the 'Vista' class.

The layout of the ship is strange since so many of the public rooms are hidden and tucked into obscure places.

Oh, if I had a dollar for every time I've read that......

[MBeamTX]

All of HAL's Vista ships - Zuiderdam, Westerdam, Oosterdam and Noordam - are all laid out the same way. On HAL's earlier ships, the Lido is completely different. It doesn't have all of the separate stations.

 

All of the HAL ships I've been on - Westerdam, Zuiderdam, Zaandam, Volendam and Maasdam - have lots of quiet spaces tucked away on the public decks. It's one of the things many people like about HAL, because you don't always feel like you're in the midst of a huge crowd. If you do want to mingle with larger groups, though, there's always the Lido and aft pools, the showroom, the casino, dining room, and Lido restaurant.

 

The Lido is often crowded and this may be more of a problem on the Vista ships. I noted that especially in Alaska, a lot of rude (in my opinion) people stake out window tables for hours on end to watch the scenery, play cards and gab. That leaves would-be diners circling for seats at peak times.

 

I don't know what to say about your unhappiness with the variety of food in the Lido. Between the hot entree line, salad bar, pizza/pasta station, sandwich bar, stir fry station, dessert and ice cream bar, and the hamburger grill where you can also get sandwiches like chicken, sausage or hot dogs plus tacos and fixings - well, what more is there to want? :confused:

 

I've only sailed on HAL and Royal Caribbean, and HAL has more variety in my experience. The difference is that on RCCL, virtually all of the Lido food is self-service. Lots of items are served to you on HAL, so maybe you missed some of the offerings?

 

Please don't take this as a flame. I'm just puzzled. I have more choices for lunch on HAL than I do from the restaurants near my office. :)

 

Susan

[Tinknock50]

I have been on the Oosterdam and I did observe that for a large ship it did seem very cut up into smaller areas. (the Sports Bar is a good example, split into 2 parts). Perhaps this is why some perceive the lounges as "cozy" and they like that.

 

On the other hand , the Oosterdam had some really standout rooms such as the Crows Nest, Explorers Lounge and the Oak Room. These were beautiful.

I liked the Oosterdam, but still prefer the S class overall.

[Atomica]

Maybe I'm alone on this (I think I might be!), but I love the layout of the Vista ships. I like that there's lots of little tucked away rooms instead of a few just massive ones.

[Waxer]

I agree with the basic premise - that Zuiderdam's public rooms aren't all readily visible, but my family (first time HAL cruisers on the Z) really liked that feature.

 

It was great fun to us even on day 5 of the cruise to "stumble across" the entrance to the piano bar while waiting for the galley tour to kickoff! I had been a little worried, since Zuiderdam is the smallest ship I've cruised on, that it would feel too small. It felt just right to us.

 

We really liked the intimate feeling of being able to cozy up in a public space that wasn't feeling like it was mobbed by other passengers, or exposed to a large public eye. Just goes to show you how personal preferences do differ.

[Tinknock50]

I agree with the basic premise - that Zuiderdam's public rooms aren't all readily visible, but my family (first time HAL cruisers on the Z) really liked that feature.

 

It was great fun to us even on day 5 of the cruise to "stumble across" the entrance to the piano bar while waiting for the galley tour to kickoff! I had been a little worried, since Zuiderdam is the smallest ship I've cruised on, that it would feel too small. It felt just right to us.

 

We really liked the intimate feeling of being able to cozy up in a public space that wasn't feeling like it was mobbed by other passengers, or exposed to a large public eye. Just goes to show you how personal preferences do differ.

 

See,you are not alone, Atomica:)

[Krazy Kruizers]

We have sailed on 3 of the Vista class ships. They are all right. But we much prefer the R and S class ships.

 

We do not like the idea that you have to pass through the picture area to get to the upper level of the dining especially if you have stopped at the Ocean Bar to have a drink before dinner. It seems as though that was the time many people decided that they just had to look at their pictures and at times it was very difficult trying to convince people to step aside a little as you were not looking at pictures but only wanted to get to the dining room!!

[bepsf]

We did not care for the Lido - not enough tables and long lines for food and not enough variety. The layout of the ship is strange since so many of the public rooms are hidden and tucked into obscure places.

 

Although I would agree that the Lido Restaurant can get crowded at times, there's also plenty of tables in the midships Lido area around the pool, and in warmer weather I've also enjoyed taking my tray to the aft-Lido.

As far as selection, I wonder what you might have been yearning for? I'm sure we'd all be interested in your ideas for other types of offerings in the Lido.

However, the smaller spaces aboard HAL ships are exactly why many of us prefer the line: we're simply not interested the 'amenities' other lines provide such as massive indoor malls with bars and shops and hamburger joints endlessly lined up one after another, nor are we interested in Hyatt-Regency-style atriums with flaming-brass, light shows and glass elevators flying above our heads - that's the stuff many of us are trying to get away from when we go on our HAL cruises. I think many of HAL's repeat passengers prefer the more intimate 'Country-House' atmosphere that HAL provides.

 

What it all comes down to choice - the more the better!

[Copper10-8]

Hi Jensenbeach; I agree with you that the Vista's take a little getting used to if you've never been on them before. Once you learn the layout of the public areas though, like Darrell said they are concentrated on Promenade, LP and Lido Deck, they're not too hard to find. The only complaint I have about the Vista's (haven't been on Westerdam and Noordam) is that the Disco/Night Club (the Northern Lights) has limited seating (booths) and on certain nights fills up very quickly (as does the adjacent bar area) so it's standing room only.

You're not the first one that has complained about the food selection in the Lido (there was another recent one on a different thread). I think that it comes down to personal taste and, specifically what you are looking for. (in your case it sounds like variety). We have both breakfast and lunch in the Lido probably 85-90% of the time when we cruise HAL and have never had any complaints but, like I said, it's a purely individual thing! Hope you continue to cruise HAL - maybe try one of the "S" or "R" classes or even Prinsendam :)

[Jemima]

Last fall we went on a group cruise on Carnival. One of the (many) things we disliked were the number of public spaces that were right in the traffic area. Our next cruise was on the Maasdam and we had extra appreciation for the way HAL situates the various public areas.

[happy cruzer]

Hi, You got some very good responses so far. You mention that you are thinking about booking your next cruise. Instead of just thinking about the negatives from your last cruise, think about the entire cruise and try to prioritize what you value.

 

Some of the typical categories are: cabin, service, food, itenirary, entertainment, night life, ship, children's programs, onboard activities, casino, spa, etc. I may have missed what is important to you. But my point is list them in importance. You say you really loved the service on HAL, if that were no. 1 and the ship was like no. 4 you might still be better off on HAL. But if ship turns out to be no. 1 you might be better off on RCI.

 

I only go into this because earlier this year, I booked on RCI. But when RCI changed their wine policy, I rethought my choice. It turns out that No.1 for me is the dining room which means fine dining with a fine wine, and RCI was not going to be able to deliver as well as HAL. so I cancelled and rebooked with HAL. the ship layout is very low to me, I'll go to Vegas for exciting atmosphere. my two cents.....

[hammybee]

and in warmer weather I've also enjoyed taking my tray to the aft-Lido

 

Now you have gone and let the cat out of the bag.

[sail7seas]

I only go into this because earlier this year, I booked on RCI. But when RCI changed their wine policy, I rethought my choice.

 

Happy Cruzer........ What is the change RCI made in their wine policy? From what To What?

 

I have no plans to sail RCI but am curious to compare different policies on different lines.

 

Thanks.

[the2ofus]

I agree with KK that the photo gallery is poorly situated and blocks the flow of traffic to the dining room. However, it can be easily by-passed. Just go up or down one level until you get to the stair/elevator lobby outside the dining room.

 

On the old Noordam the photo gallery was outside the Lido. That really backed up traffic too. Guess the designers didn't learn from experience.

 

I am one who likes the HAL layout of public rooms. On our Adventure of the Seas cruise last spring I disliked the idea of all the bars and lounges being right on the "main drag". There were no quiet corners to sit and have a quiet conversation and drink. You were always aware of the echoing hubbub from the atrium.

[Tinknock50]

Last fall we went on a group cruise on Carnival. One of the (many) things we disliked were the number of public spaces that were right in the traffic area. Our next cruise was on the Maasdam and we had extra appreciation for the way HAL situates the various public areas.

 

I can identify with you there. I was on the Paradise and thought it was a pretty ship. While there were some things out of the traffic area, what I found uncomfortable was the granite halls in the main indoor promenade.

With no carpet, the noise carried along way and was jarring.

[Sea King]

If you didn't like the layout on Zuiderdam, apparently your main objection, suggest you try any other ship other than Oosterdam, Westerdam or Noordam since they're for the most part sisters.

 

The 1st time I sailed Zuiderdam, it took a "little getting used to" since the layout is entirely different; in some respects, it was better than others especially Lido which had separate food stations vs. one long line

 

the only room you might have trouble finding is Piano Bar since it's kind of behind the Casino; if you don't ask or don't go the showroom, you could easily miss it

 

if you were satisfied with the level of service, quality of food, size of room, on-board amenities and activities, suggest you consider another HAL cruise but on a different "class" of ship

[happy cruzer]

Happy Cruzer........ What is the change RCI made in their wine policy? From what To What?

 

I have no plans to sail RCI but am curious to compare different policies on different lines.

 

Thanks.

 

Hi, sail7seas,

 

Early this year, RCI was no liquor to be brought on board. but wine and and champagne could be with a $15 corkage fee. their wine list is very ordinary and the same bottle offered on HAL for example is at least $2 less on HAL than RCI and that's on the low cost wines. so having brought my wines on board previously and since I was going to start in Europe where I could get some very fun wines. I decided that RCI's policy of letting you bring on wine was fine for me.

 

Then they changed to 2 bottles with prior approval could be brought on board. Except none of us could figure out how to get prior approval. shortly after that, they changed to no alcohol (which included wine to be brought on board). I believe if you put it in your checked baggage it will still get on board and you probably could have it in the dining room. But I just did not want to risk ruining my trip to Europe where I had planned to take 3 wine tours and purchase wine to have on the ship and for sourvenirs (which could have been confiscated too).

 

I had a thread over on RCI page that tracked all this info, but it was merged with the bottle smuggline stuff and then closed by the moderator. http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=330826 Sorry for the long answer.

[cruznon]

We've sailed on both the Zuiderdam and Oosterdam. I prefer the Oosterdam.(MY favorite ship.) I love the lay out of these ships. By "tucking" some the of bars and lounges out of the main throughfares, these large ships still have a smaller "feeling"

If you weren't happy with your HAL experience, perhaps you might want to try another cruise line. There are so many different cruise products out there, why not see if another line "fits" you better?

So far, HAL is my favorite. I love the service, the elegance, the flowers, etc. (Our nexr cruise is on Princess--DH wanted to try them out ...)

[HoneyGV]

The Zuiderdam is a 'Vista' class ship and unfortunately you aren't the first (nor will you be the last) to feel that they did not like the layout at all. This is one of the reasons we don't expect to EVER sail on one. HAL does have other ships that we LOVE. You'll find a 'sticky' at the top of the threads "An Introduction to the Ships and Classes of the HAL Fleet" that lists which ships fall in the 'Vista' class. Oh, if I had a dollar for every time I've read that......

 

I too felt the same way about the Zuiderdam. Staff, crew and pax were great...I just didn't like the layout of the ship.

We were on her for a 7 day'er just before she went into dry dock. We had an "S" suite on the same deck as the Neptune and the corridor was filled with "ruts" so bad at the time that the room service staff couldn't roll their carts without getting stuck and there were was a couple there who had a wheelchair and they always had to pull it backwards because it kept getting stuck.

I wonder if they've fixed that?:(

[Stevesan]

We sailed Zuiderdam three years ago. That was likely my last Vista Class cruise.

 

As you, my main objection was the layout. I prefer the S and R class ships above any other ships whether on HAL or otherwise, but have major objections to the interior design of the Vistas. I wrote a post cruise review including some design observations. Since I'm basically lazy, I'll just crib a few relevant comments from that review (Including some favorables, notably the SS cabin):

 

Zuiderdam was built and designed for year round Caribbean cruising and the interior motifs reflect this concept. Some areas offer a challenge to navigate; especially the central lounges adjoining the casino on deck two. There are nooks, crannies and small corridors to deal with, somewhat similar to what is occasionally found in the lounge areas of some land resort hotels. Maybe this is what the designers had in mind? The central atrium is smaller than on the S Class ships. This provides more space for the lounges and other public areas, but I miss the larger atrium which I often use as a reference point for navigation.

The Lounges:

The Best:

Crow’s Nest. Great viewing lounge with huge wraparound window located forward on deck ten. Cocktail piano, also theme night music such as 50s & 60s tunes by CD. Explorer’s Lounge. Classical music by The Rosario Strings. This is also the venue for afternoon tea. Excellent snacks and a good selection of teas (save room for the scones!).

The Worst: Queen’s Lounge. So poorly designed that it’s useless for any function. That’s too bad because The HAL Cats, a truly good band fronted by a first-rate vocal quartet, plays danceable music here most nights.

Ocean Bar - Once again, poor design. This lounge is totally open to the atrium losing any identity as a lounge, and the dance floor is too small. For some incomprehensible reason, a divider is installed across the center of the seating area, disconnecting the rear of the lounge from the front.

No Opinion: Northern Lights – Late night activity usually starting at 10PM, mostly disco and light rock. A DJ spinning CDs supplies music. Booth seating surrounds a largish dance floor. Design by Gateway.

The Vista Dining Room: An attractive and well-constructed design. There are two levels located aft on decks two and three. Seating is well organized with comfortable chairs and some banquet tables. Best of all, each dining area has its own galley located immediately adjacent to the dining rooms. Instead of waiting for dumb waiters from a galley below, dishes are more directly served. This means hot dishes arrive hot and cold are offered cold. You do want to avoid seating the far aft section of the lower dining room. When cranked up the Azipod propulsion system delivers a significant vibration. The shaking is primarily felt on the back end of the lower deck. However, it’s only a problem when the engines are pressed. The captain tries to maintain lower revs during dining hours, but there are times they must be turned up. When this happens the place settings won’t dance off the tables, but it’s definitely uncomfortable.

Our cabin:

Since we were on for two weeks I upgraded us from our usual standard outside to a “superior verandah suite” located amidships on deck six. The SS cabin is @ 288sft, and the balcony 100sft. The room is well designed with two queen size beds, which we had put together, a restful full sized fold out sofa, three chairs (one too many), a glass top coffee table, a writing desk and the standard desk. There are plenty of drawers, shelves and closets. The bathroom is large, with a full size Jacuzzi tub, a separate shower stall, double sinks, two medicine chests and a long shelf running under the sinks. The standard outside cabins, as well as the inside (if you don’t mind the dark), are more than adequate in size and design. DVD rentals are available from the front desk. There’s a $25 deposit for each disk.

[Tinknock50]

We've sailed on both the Zuiderdam and Oosterdam. I prefer the Oosterdam.(MY favorite ship.) I love the lay out of these ships. By "tucking" some the of bars and lounges out of the main throughfares, these large ships still have a smaller "feeling"

If you weren't happy with your HAL experience, perhaps you might want to try another cruise line. There are so many different cruise products out there, why not see if another line "fits" you better?

So far, HAL is my favorite. I love the service, the elegance, the flowers, etc. (Our nexr cruise is on Princess--DH wanted to try them out ...)

 

cruznon,

After I saw your post, I went back and reread Jensenbeach's post.

Sounds like he enjoyed the HAL experience overall. He was just not pleased with the Zuiderdam design.

 

He might find a good "fit" on an "S" class ship which is very different than the Vista class. No need to quit HAL.:)

[Giorgi-one]

We have sailed on 3 of the Vista class ships. They are all right. But we much prefer the R and S class ships.

 

We do not like the idea that you have to pass through the picture area to get to the upper level of the dining especially if you have stopped at the Ocean Bar to have a drink before dinner. It seems as though that was the time many people decided that they just had to look at their pictures and at times it was very difficult trying to convince people to step aside a little as you were not looking at pictures but only wanted to get to the dining room!!

 

Absolutely the worst design feature on any ship I have sailed (17 cruises). Best idea is to enter the dining room from another fllow and use the steps. Also the Vista class ships have only one hallway on each public floor while most ships have two (one port and one starboard). I believe HAL is trying to force people into the areas that generate income.

[Sea King]

Completely forgot the nightmare getting from Ocean Bar to upper level of dining room through photo gallery

 

other posters totally right

 

someone must have gone from a tavern to the drawing board when that design was added

 

other than that though, let's be honest:

 

Ocean Bar is better on Zuiderdam that on S - smoking and non-smoking are totally divided by the atrium -also, you have a choice of listening to the band or not by choosing which side to sit at

 

Atrium bar - beautiful on Zuiderdam - non-existant on S

 

Pinnacle - much richer on Zuiderdam than on S - also, private bar when you enter is wonderful for before dinner drinks

 

Disco - much more "disco" on Zuierdam than on S especially now that the same designer who did the photo lab has totally ruined the Crow's Nest with drapes and other amenities

 

Showroom - much nicer layout on Zuiderdam with one tier that goes from the bottom to top of room vs. balcony

 

Lido - much easier IMO to get what you want because of separate stations vs. one long line .. downer is hot dog/burger bar .. much more convenient on S but S is also 25,000 tons smaller

 

Explorer's - much more elegant on Zuiderdam than on S - much better location on S though

 

Outside elevator - none exist on S class

 

Zuiderdam isn't perfect - think Noordam is ahead in colors, layout and overall feeling of much more elegance -

 

but, Zuiderdam is still beautiful and pleasure to cruise

 

presume HAL has a variety of different "class ships" since everyone's preference is different

 

what isn't different though is the crew .. far and away the best of any cruise line!