How do you really feel about formal nights?

[haligonian37]

The secret to enjoying formal night is comfort. For instance, some women can wear high heels comfortably, others teeter and look like they might tip over! An elegantly dressed person looks comfortable.

 

I couldn't agree more. While I wouldn't say that I "enjoy" dressing up, I'm not against it. I own the proverbial "little black dress" which takes up minimal space in my luggage and it can be dressed up many ways with little effort. For my last cruise I took a pashmina shawl with me (a hint found on CC) and wore that with my dress to formal night. The shawl also served another purpose...to cover up my slightly sunburned arms :o.

 

For my next cruise, my sister has graciously offered to make me a dress, as there will be additional formal nights. While it won't be a full length gown, it will be a tasteful, comfortable dress that I'm sure will be very suitable.

[PatsyAnne]

Thanks for the suggestions, Trish. Im really looking at whats out there. I want to buy 3 or 4 pieces and I want a set that will work well for short and long cruises.

David, while you're looking, remember the weight restrictions on airlines. We've found you are better off with two smaller bags than one large one, because you are often limited to 45-50 pounds per bag.

 

Trish

[SarasMommy]

I understand and agree and apologize for any offense I gave in offering some packing and luggage suggestions. One never knows when something one might suggest will come in handy, however, so I plead "helpfulness."

 

No offense taken at all. We're all here to share experiences and advice. That's why I joined, and from what I can see of many people's cruise lists, I am still a rookie!

 

 

It is with great fondness that I refer to folks as "honey, dear, baby". And when a poster proclaims that he/she is "disabled", it hits home to me. (This is amplified when I think that I might be dealing with the elderly....my folks were in their 40's when they gave birth to me)

 

Me too - I was my mom's 42nd birthday present, plus I'm an only child. It is because of my father's frugal living and wise investments that I have been able to go on these cruises with my mother. Unfortunately Dad passed away a few years ago, and it has been bittersweet on our cruises seeing all the older couples enjoying themselves. The least my husband and I can do is accompany Mom (especially when she is paying!).

 

Where does that leave me? I'm disabled. HAL has the ships that suit me, but also has the Formals which don't. I can't wear Formal... my best clothing is a shirt (no picture/design, just grey) with pocket. I don't know if I'd get a special pass to the Formal Dinner, so I'll go to another restaurant that night. I don't want to impose.

 

I'm sure I speak for most people here when I say you would not be imposing. If you are physically unable to wear formal attire, that is an entirely different circumstance, and I would be downright shocked if you were turned down at the dining room door. I don't think that should deter you from sailing HAL.

[SarasMommy]

For my last cruise I took a pashmina shawl with me (a hint found on CC) and wore that with my dress to formal night.

 

Pashminas are wonderful, and so versatile. I carry one everywhere on the ship with me, not just on formal nights. They sell them for $10 in the gift shops on the ships, in a rainbow of colours.

[Golfette]

Sara'sMommy - do they really have Pashminas for $10 in the ship's shops (tongue-twister)? I've always thought they were rather expensive?

 

NonoNannette - I just wanna tell you I love you. :)

[hammybee]

Unless you're really putting that person's perspectives over your own, then it isn't help, it is advocacy, and by all rights it should be presented as.....

 

You stated this well, regarless of the topic, at hand. It should become a part of the introduction to all message boards. Everything we read here is subjective.

[madelinerose]

Sara'sMommy - do they really have Pashminas for $10 in the ship's shops (tongue-twister)? I've always thought they were rather expensive? :)

 

 

Golfette....they're not real pashmina's...no cashmere.

[RevNeal]

These posts are relevant to my remarks, which follow:

 

I dont understand. If someone describes their likes and dislikes, and those likes and dislikes dont match with the product theyre looking at buying, I think it kind to suggest that they might want to think about buying a different product. if someone loves formal clothes, why not suggest that they think about buying a cruise on a boat that has formal nights? If, on the other hand, someone doesn't like formal clothing, why not suggest that they think about buying a cruise on a line that doesn't have formal nights? Thats not as you phrase it presumptuous but an expression of concern.

 

I think what she is labeling presumptuous is the part where "you" make the decision that "her" likes and dislikes don't match with the product. After all, the fact is that people, such as NNN, enjoy wearing more casual clothing, yet still have a great time cruising on Holland America. That's really a critical point: When you feel you're giving someone "helpful" advice, you have to consider who you're helping! Unless you're really putting that person's perspectives over your own, then it isn't help, it is advocacy, and by all rights it should be presented as, "I would prefer it if you didn't cruise my favored cruise line" instead of, "You would prefer it if you didn't cruise my favored cruise line."

 

We have a similar discussion on the Disney theme parks boards, regarding how to read (and give) advice about where to dine. My advice is always the same: Reader and reviewer need to match up, almost like establishing an impromptu face-to-face friendship. People who hate adventurous eating need to be the ones giving advice to people who hate adventurous eating. People who enjoy raw fish need to be the ones giving advice to people who enjoy raw fish. There is no constructive purpose to the burger connoisseur giving advice to a vegetarian.

 

You stated this well, regarless of the topic, at hand. It should become a part of the introduction to all message boards. Everything we read here is subjective.

 

To hammy: cruise experiences, dress code observances, dining preferences, and the like, are all opinion/subjective. Some things that we read here, however, are factual/objective. For instance: it's fact, not an opinion, that HAL was bought by Carnival Corporation on January 17, 1989 . It's a fact, not an opinion, that the Noordam is a larger and younger ship than the Statendam. It's a fact, not an opinion, that HAL's bar-service stewards come from the Philippines. I could go on.

 

However, the basic idea being remarked on is accurate. When we talk about matters like cruise line styles and individual preferences, we're talking subjective opinion. Sadly, it would appear that some people's subjective opinions are welcome, while other people's subjective opinions (those who are labeled "presumptuous" and of the "vocal minority") are NOT welcome.

 

To All: When someone outlines what they like about cruising, what they don't like about cruising, and what they're looking for in a vacation, it is neither "presumption" nor "advocacy" for me or anyone else to offer our subjective opinions and suggestions about what they might (note, Dave used the word "might" too) like or might dislike about HAL and where they might want to think about looking to find the kind of cruise they want. Dave was being helpful, not presumptuous, and he interpreted the labeling of it "presumptuous" as an attempt to silence him. He didn't appreciate it and I'm not sure if he's coming back. His e-mail to me, this morning, indicated that things had not changed on this board and that he didn't see any purpose being served in his posting with us if he is going to be told that his "help" isn't welcome. When he used to post he got tired of being bashed for being a HAL supporter, on one hand, and not being loyal enough on the other. Some of the players have changed, but the game goes on. At least, that's his viewpoint.

 

So, [sARCASM]"congratulations"[/sARCASM] are in order for those who are trying to shut up the "Vocal Minority." You may have just succeeded in driving off someone who had, for a couple of years, been a lurker but had been encouraged (by me and others) to come out and play. He believes he was being told to shut up unless his opinion or POV agreed with that of the questioner, and he did not appreciate the motivations that were being assigned to him. The rest of his remarks regarding this incident cannot be posted on the board (the board language governor won't allow it). However, they were a collection of rather "color metaphors."

[Harry1954]

My husband and I choose Holland America because most of the passengers do respect the formal nights and dress for the occasion. We love the elegance and the ambience associated with those special evenings and would not consider spending money on a cruise line where the passengers do not respect the dress code. It seems to be quite simple. If one is not interested in dressing for dinner then one should be quite happy on one of the lines favoured by the younger, and perhaps more casual, crowd. Why go on HAL and stand out like a sore thumb in your jeans on formal night?? I am not trying to be nasty---just can't understand why people go on HAL and then complain about having to dress.

I am with you !

harry

[SarasMommy]

Golfette....they're not real pashmina's...no cashmere.

 

That's the best kind - easy to wash after dropping it on the deck too many times!!

 

I'm not so sure about the material, though. I have a pashmina that I bought here at home and the tag says 70% pashmina (as in the fabric) and 30% silk, and it was only about $15 Canadian. Regarding the one I bought on the ship, I cut the tag off because it stood out too much, but for some reason I seem to remember it was at least partially cashmere. Maybe a small percentage...but I can't remember for sure. I guess I'll have to book another cruise soon so I can find out!

 

Regardless of what the fibre content is, the ones on the ship are only $10 US. And I think they are nice. They add a splash of colour to that "little black dress."

[hammybee]

 

 

To hammy: cruise experiences, dress code observances, dining preferences, and the like, are all opinion/subjective. Some things that we read here, however, are factual/objective. For instance: it's fact, not an opinion, that HAL was bought by Carnival Corporation on January 17, 1989 . It's a fact, not an opinion, that the Noordam is a larger and younger ship than the Statendam. It's a fact, not an opinion, that HAL's bar-service stewards come from the Philippines. I could go on.

 

However, the basic idea being remarked on is accurate. When we talk about matters like cruise line styles and individual preferences, we're talking subjective opinion. Sadly, it would appear that some people's subjective opinions are welcome, while other people's subjective opinions (those who are labeled "presumptuous" and of the "vocal minority") are NOT welcome.

 

I feel like I just walked in during the middle of a scary movie. :eek: Are we talking about preferences in luggage?

[RuthC]

Dave was being helpful, not presumptuous, and he interpreted the labeling of it "presumptuous" as an attempt to silence him. He didn't appreciate it and I'm not sure if he's coming back.

I'm sorry to read that, Greg. :( Dave has a quick wit and a well-written style. I was just getting to "know" him a bit, but already appreciated his input.

[NoNoNanette]

I'm sorry to read that, Greg. :( Dave has a quick wit and a well-written style. I was just getting to "know" him a bit, but already appreciated his input.

 

I agree with you, Ruthie. I thought that he was an awful nice fellow. I'm uncertain who referred to him as "presumptuous", though. :confused:

[RevNeal]

I feel like I just walked in during the middle of a scary movie. :eek: Are we talking about preferences in luggage?

 

No, not luggage. I wish that were the case.

Read what Dave wrote and what was told.

[RevNeal]

I'm sorry to read that, Greg. :( Dave has a quick wit and a well-written style. I was just getting to "know" him a bit, but already appreciated his input.

 

I've tried to convince him to just ignore them, and he may do that. He liked most of the people he met here, especially the one he terms "the chocolate lady."

[hammybee]

No, not luggage. I wish that were the case.

Read what Dave wrote and what was told.

 

Sweet cheeks?

 

( hammybee blushes, just a little)

[Piet_Hein]

I find the discussion of Pashmina shawls to be the most useful information on this entire thread. I'll let my wife know she can purchase easy-to-wash fake pashmina shawls for $10 on HAL.

 

Thanks! There's a gem buried in every thread:)

[RuthC]

I agree with you, Ruthie.

"Ruthie"? That's not my name.

[RuthC]

He liked most of the people he met here, especially the one he terms "the chocolate lady."

Why, thank you for passing that along.

<she blushes charmingly>

[Palmetto Lady]

A Gentleman's tuxedo consists of a jacket with satin faced shawl collar, trousers with a satin stripe worn with cummerbund or vest, pleated front shirt. He is expected to wear it for years unless he changes sizes. Only trendy tuxedos go out of style.

Women's clothing may or may not go out of style after three or four years depending on whether one wears classic or trendy clothes.

[Copper10-8]

Dave was being helpful, not presumptuous, and he interpreted the labeling of it "presumptuous" as an attempt to silence him. He didn't appreciate it and I'm not sure if he's coming back.

 

With all due respect to your friend Dave, Rev! I hope that's not all it takes to chase him away from here! That was basically a nothing burger.

[hammybee]

I find the discussion of Pashmina shawls to be the most useful information on this entire thread. I'll let my wife know she can purchase easy-to-wash fake pashmina shawls for $10 on HAL.

 

Thanks! There's a gem buried in every thread:)

 

I like you.:)

[bUU]

Sadly, it would appear that some people's subjective opinions are welcome, while other people's subjective opinions (those who are labeled "presumptuous" and of the "vocal minority") are NOT welcome.

You've misunderstood the distinction she was making: Rather, the issue isn't what opinions are presented, but how they're presented. The key is, in the wording used, whether or not one is implying that one's own personal opinions apply beyond the bounds of that one person.

[model lady]

I find the discussion of Pashmina shawls to be the most useful information on this entire thread. I'll let my wife know she can purchase easy-to-wash fake pashmina shawls for $10 on HAL.

 

Thanks! There's a gem buried in every thread:)

 

Pashmina and cashmere are the same thing - just different names from different countries.

 

For people going through Hong Kong they can be purchased in heaps of colours at either Stanley Markets or other night markets for $50 HKD, which is much less than US$10.00

 

Nice to hear from Ruth again after meeting on the last cruise.

[RevNeal]

 

With all due respect to your friend Dave, Rev! I hope that's not all it takes to chase him away from here! That was basically a nothing burger.

 

Hey, John. I agree with you. In my personal experience, what was said was not personally offensive but, rather, revealing as to the attitude of others. I've been called names (on this board) that would peel the paint off a battleship. Dave says he doesn't know why I bother. But, I suspect he'll not stay gone for long. He liked the interaction here.