Economy finally affecting luxury cruises???

[Travelcat2]

Hopefully I won't be flamed too badly. . . however, I do read the threads on luxury cruise boards (well, actually, I read Silversea and sometimes Seabourn). In the past week I've learned that:

 

1. Silversea's world cruise was only about 1/3 full -- they will not be doing the world cruise next year.

 

2. Seabourn has changed their award program (for repeat customers with lots and lots of days).

 

On the Regent side (not counting unsubstantiated rumors), they have changed their shampoo, soap, etc. from Aveda to a 'branded" product.

 

While Regent's changes are minimal, it does sound as if the economy is beginning to impact the top three cruise lines. Just wondering what others are thinking.:o

 

 

P.S. I do remember that the economy is not affecting the OC:)

[Jancruz]

Hopefully I won't be flamed too badly. . . however, I do read the threads on luxury cruise boards (well, actually, I read Silversea and sometimes Seabourn). In the past week I've learned that:

 

1. Silversea's world cruise was only about 1/3 full -- they will not be doing the world cruise next year.

 

2. Seabourn has changed their award program (for repeat customers with lots and lots of days).

 

On the Regent side (not counting unsubstantiated rumors), they have changed their shampoo, soap, etc. from Aveda to a 'branded" product.

 

While Regent's changes are minimal, it does sound as if the economy is beginning to impact the top three cruise lines. Just wondering what others are thinking.:o

 

 

P.S. I do remember that the economy is not affecting the OC:)

 

Sorry,

What is OC?

Jancruz1

[Travelcat2]

Sorry,

What is OC?

Jancruz1

 

Oops -- just a reference to a recent thread -- a poster explained that the economy in Orange County, CA was just great. ;)

[canadagal]

I have noticed that I have been getting much more advertising from all the lines then I have in the past with "specials". So who knows......maybe it is starting to take effect.

Pat

[lord of the seas]

I have decided to book more cruises as the prices are good now.

Remember we are not here for too long. :D

[NCCruzQueen]

TC2, Notice in Neville's Voyager post from yesterday, he writes, "A small, subtle change in one less item in each category of the menu in Compass Rose."

 

Looks like another way Regent is cutting back.

 

Beth

[Iamboatman]

There have been issues with SS for quite a while. If you recall I posted recently that SS announced its sales were up 33% which is quite a statement when its capacity hasn't increased. In other words, SS has had weak sales for years. It is why, in part, they decided to announce they were going after the European market...leaving its US travel agents not terribly happy.

 

Seabourn is a different situation all together. Sales are actually way up. My 2009 sales (more than a year out) are actually running way, way, ahead of my 2008 sales at the same point in the prior year. Yes, there is a new ship coming out and that helps, but it is pretty dramatic. (BTW, at a recent Seabourn seminar it was said, "We have the oldest ships. We have the smallest luxury suites. We have the least amount in facilities. Our ships sail full. We must be doing something right." These are not things coming from a line hurting from the economy.

 

BTW, what was the most generous frequent guest program in the industry remains just that. It is not a matter of filling ships...because you need capacity to do that! (It is hard to take a free cruise if there is no suite to put you in!) It is a matter of adjusting the benefit to correspond with the cost of the cruises; noting that 2001 days count just as much as 2008 days...and prices were much lower. So with prices rising and many lower cost days accrued but not used there is a need to change the program so that the reward has some relation to the money spent (not just the days). Make sense?

 

Regent is different from both SS and SB as it has had, by far, the largest increase in pricing; changing from a consistent solid value and economically feasible alternative to the higher priced SS and SB, to an equal or more expensive cruise line...with much larger ships and passenger counts and, in a good number of instances, inconsistent service and food. (At the lower prices, those issues are less of an issue because, in large part, you should get what you pay for.)

 

Personally, I would love to see Regent relax the prices a bit, which would take some pressure off it past passengers, take some pressure off of having to compete on the service/food issues, and increase sales. Making it the value it was makes the most sense to me.

[Host Dan]

Good thread TC2. Personally, due to the economic situation here in the US, I have eliminated my summer cruise, and will continue to tighten my spending habits until the economy eases up a bit. But thats just me.

 

Host Dan

[Paint Horse]

This downturn appears to be very location dependent. Where I live and in my case the economy is booming. I have booked three trips over the next two years rather than one. In each case the trips are all longer and more expensive. To some extent I think all of this recession talk is just that, talk. The news needs something to hype. This is it right now.

[wripro]

Painthorse?

 

Was your post a joke?

[Paint Horse]

No, but keep in mind I said in my area of the country the economy is booming. My area is Dallas Fort Worth.

[Travelcat2]

"lord of the seas" definitely has the right idea:) And, I do agree that the economy affects different parts of the country differently. In states bordering on Canada, for instance, retail sales are very high. We have not changed our cruising/vacation habits . . . yet. If food, gasoline and cruises are going up in price -- unless the rest of us are keeping up with the increases -- it looks like there is a problem.

 

I feel that Regent's Seven Seas Society is great. After only 21 days, you begin with free internet, limited telephone calls and other perks. I'd rather be enjoying benefits now than working towards a free cruise after 140 days (don't remember the exact number). These loyalty programs appear similiar to frequent flyer miles. They are wonderful for free/upgraded trips - but the rules usually change mid-stream -- you can't get the flights you want, etc.

 

In terms of Silversea, I hope it turns around and starts filling up their ships again. Their service, according to very recent reports, is excellent. With Silversea and Seabourn ships being approximately half the size the Regent, it makes sense that they have more personal service. I understand that food on SS can be wonderful -- or not (somewhat like Regent).

 

When I'm on the Mariner in a couple of weeks, I'll be looking for the missing item(s) on the menu -- sure hope it's not lobster!

[Jaffa]

Silversea planed last year to do a grand Pacific circum of 98 days next year as a change from a traditional full WC.

 

This decision was taken after on board surveying of the 1st WC passengers and Venetian society members, who wanted a more detailed South Pacific and North West Pacific intensive itin grand voyage.

As far as l can see and have been told it had nothing to do with any economic

downturn.

 

This was explained at a Silversea hosted cocktail party in Syd in Nov when they announced due to substantial growth they would be opening their own offices in Australia to handle all their own sales for Australasia and not renewing existing contracts with existing agents. The new office opened 2 weeks ago with much fan fare.

 

At the cocktail party l asked about the rumour that they were up for sale and this was denied. We were told that the family floated the idea and was seeking interest in 2005/2006 but this was withdrawn when the company's figures after 9/11 and SARS improved better than expectations and they decided to begin making land based hotel and resort acquisitions.

 

The future direction of the company is to be one of versatility for the client

we were told. whereby cruise and land based luxury can be connected under the same banner. They also announced the addition of expedition cruising as an area that they felt was very open at the top end of the market and told us about the new expedition ship and the New build larger ship.

They also told us of the permanent repositioning of the Whisper to Australasia

in 2010.

 

There are no more specials or Silver Savings this year than there were last year. Single Supp prices are more expensive this year than they have been, but that seems to be the same right across the Lux lines.

 

The last minute Venetian Value savings that you only get as a past passenger and only direct from SS are still the best way to get the best price and there are fewer of them this year due to cruises selling out further out than usual.

 

I disagree with you ERIC.

Silversea is spending big money at the moment across the board, they wouldn't be doing this if they were in any sort of downturn or trouble.

SS's new personnel acquisitions at the senior level and the fact that there are more sold out cruises this year that the past 5 years is proof enough.

 

With the major refurb's of the Cloud and the Wind this year (which will be adding more senior suites and removing some of the Vista's) resulting in almost complete overhauls of both.

 

Eric l see your point about those numbers you quoted but they just don't make sense.

One of the contractors SS used in Australia as sales agents said in an industry trade rag 2 weeks ago, that they were quite upset that SS were not renewing their contract as they were experiencing major sales growth with the product and felt cut out of the success at a time when they were finally

getting excellent returns.

 

I personally think it would be natural for Sliversea to head back to Europe

With the problems being faced by the US and with the strength of the EURO.

Asia and the Australian economy's are doing fine. As is most of Europe and the Middle east.

It's mainly the US that has the big problems, I think SS are just fine tuning there markets.

[canadagal]

Very valid points brought up by all and that's what I was thinking too. Seabourn only has 208 berths to fill on the triplets versus 700 on the Regent Voyager or Mariner. That alone is a big difference. I don't for one minute believe that SS is on the skids nor do I hope she ever is. SS is a great alternative to Regent although I can't say the same about Seabourn as she is in a class of her own just because of the much smaller size of the ships and no real balconies. However, that being said Seabourn has the best customer service both off the ship and on I've ever experienced anywhere.

I personally hope all 3 are around for a very long time to come as they are unique and each offer a very good experience and I've enjoyed all of my cruises on all three.

Pat

[MomC]

Paint Horse,

 

I can't imagine a place in the US that is not suffering from the economic woes facing this country--except for the two companies which I named. Perhaps you are a CEO of one of these companies and therefore have seen your bonus skyrocket at the expense of the little people.

 

Said with tongue in cheek--or should I say--with the biting humor of Johnathan Swift.

 

Mom C

[wripro]

Painted Horse,

 

I wasn't referring to your area of the country, rather to your statement that the bad economy and recession is just talk.

[nyfeds]

Those who say we're not in a recesssion and our economy woes are a fabrication, surely must live in Fantasyland, USA.

[planner8]

AMEN nymeds thank you

[Travelcat2]

Paint Horse. . . I am really happy to hear that you are not affected by the weak economy (not sure if it is a "recession" -- just very weak economy). For those who are affected, it is definitely real. Be grateful that your area has not felt the effects.

 

Jaffa, thank you very much for your detailed explanation of why Silversea is doing what it is doing. It does make sense. We have relatives in Australia, Canada and the U.K. -- at this time, they are the best place(s) for a company to spend their marketing dollars. We do look forward to a SS sailing in the future.

 

As usual, I agree with canadagal .. Seabourn is in a class of its own. Glad to hear it is doing well. I read recently that their staff has a major incentive to give top service. . . while I don't agree with the policy, it definitely seems to work.

 

Still wonder, how many people are cutting back on their vacations (cruises, road trips, etc.). I find that, even though we can (thankfully) afford to pay the gasoline prices . . . I drive less -- use the "cheapo" gas, etc. While I don't want to see cruise lines suffer, I question how long everyone can afford the high prices.

[ppiew]

I would hope that I NEVER chose a cruise line/ship based on the shampoo they offer!!! Good Grief!

[Paint Horse]

My point is we, the population of the US, talk ourselves into a lot of things. The news then feeds these feelings, which then cause us to react further and off we go.

[Bklynbill]

I was excited to see someone else in Bellingham posting. I am a cook, and even with help from our Northern neighbors I'd have to say that business in general is a little down in the food industry.

[lord of the seas]

The economy in a lot of countries is slghtly down at the moment,China and Asia are booming and are growing at an astounding rate,Australia is doing well.There is some truth in the fact that the media is talking up a recession and will affect those people who take on board what is reported.The way forward is for people to keep spending and for the Banks to stop hoarding money and to start lending again.I suspect that we will not be having this sort of posting in six months.

We have last week elected a new Mayor of London and already there is a feeling that a great weight has been lifted and we will go forward and get on with life.Hey,you could always think that the media are correct with everything they say. :)

[Iamboatman]

Jaffa, I guess my comment about SS was taken a bit differently than intended. My point was that there has been a 33% growth rate. That shows strong sales...and that the move to Europe for those sales made sense. I also had posted in another thread about SS investing in the extensive renovation of its smaller ships, so that the product is consistent across the line (it was posted in the context of the value of consistency) and that SS has the new exploration ship (Prince Albert II) that seems like a great idea.

 

As for SS being for sale, I don't have any information that it is no longer so, but I do agree that the upturn in its sales from 2006 would make it a less attractive option generally.

 

One point everyone should look at is where the posters are coming from. Australian and European posters are very happy. I remember when the Aussie dollar was very weak and made everything very, VERY, expensive. Fuel prices were through the roof, with the government changing its taxing from dollar volume to litres sold because it caused such a burden. The pound is worth double the US dollar. And, to make matters worse (interesting), some cruise lines are protecting foreign markets so that US agents cannot market to their and the potential passenger's benefits. Regent doesn't do this and I hope it won't in the future.

[Leejnd4]

I would hope that I NEVER chose a cruise line/ship based on the shampoo they offer!!! Good Grief!

 

I think you're reading a little too much into the comment on the change in shampoo brands. I doubt there are any folks in here who choose their cruise based on the brand of soap/shampoo. The point is that when a cruise line begins using a less expensive, cheaper brand, this is indicative of possible across-the-board cost savings efforts. And when you are paying the highest prices for a luxury cruise experience, you don't want skimping and cost-cutting. You want the luxury you are paying for.

 

This is a fascinating thread, and I want to especially thank those cruise industry insiders for continually posting your insights, experiences, thoughts and opinions. Not being in the cruise industry myself, these are always very enlightening conversations. Not everyone interprets things the same...which is great too, because then I get to read different perspectives on what is happening in the industry.

 

As for whether or not there really is an economic downturn...oh please. I'm sure there are folks who are doing fine financially themselves - and I would venture to guess that most people who take luxury cruises are in an income bracket that at least partially insulates them from the impacts of a recession. But that doesn't change the raw facts of what's going on in this country. Some people have a hard time looking beyond their own happy little bubble to see what's happening to the less-blessed. Is it just a "media creation"? Does it matter, in the context of this discussion? The dollar is down, fuel costs are up, unemployment is up, there are enough raw data indicators that there are many people suffering real hardships due to the nation's current economy.