Economy finally affecting luxury cruises???

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

"P.S. I do remember that the economy is not affecting the OC:)"

 

"(except the OC, of course!)"

 

 

Poor Ragnar is the Rodney Dangerfield of CruiseCritic :(

 

 

But speaking of the economy, Ol' Ragnar was out annoying the good folks of Las Vegas last week, for work reasons (at a trade show). No sign of a bad economy* there, that I could see, the place was hopping mid-week. We stayed at the Wynn (on the company nickel, fortunately) and it was pretty full (all suites booked, at least). Went to two shows at the Wynn, on a Tueday and a Thursday, one was full and the other almost full. Casinos seemed as crowded (and smokey...) as usual. Restaurants seemed packed.

 

Drove back on Friday morning and the traffic to/from SoCal was heavy (no accidents, fortunately).

 

However, even Ol' Ragnar noticed that gas was over $4/gal :eek:

 

* - Ol' Ragnar knows that the speculative housing bubble in Las Vegas, especially condo towers, has burst big-time.

[Travelcat2]

I'm not sure it became "political" as such...it's simply been talk of the economy, not political beliefs. I haven't seen anyone mention who they're voting for, anway! I don't know if I would call differences of opinion about whether or not we are currently experiencing an economic downturn "political"...and hey, the topic of this thread is whether or not the economy is affecting luxury cruises, so it's inevitable that you'll see lots of posts talking about...the economy! :)

 

I do agree with you. What I found a bit political was questioning whether or not the depressed economy was real. I was coming from the position that it doesn't really matter. If you're paying such high prices for "staple" items -- it does not necessarily mean "recession", however, it is challenging and could/does affect the future of any type of recreational spending. :)

 

 

 

 

 

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[DavidJ]

 

And I too am glad to know I'm not the only person who's concerns for the economy have impacted my travel plans. Although I do seem to be one of the few in here who thinks that the answer is to try a mass-market line! :eek: (And I'm not even sure myself...)

 

The economy has certainly played a role in our travel plans. We have watched prices of RSSC go up dramatically. We have found the premium lines to be an alternative. The weak dollar is also causing us to look for alternative iteneraries. We were saving Alaska for later years when a less active vacation might be attractive. Now it is in consideration due to the dollar and is more affordable with Regent than Europe with Regent. We are choosing cabins in a lower category. Our net worth and income has fallen and it is not just "hype". That is true for most folks.

[Leejnd4]

Sorry folks - I need to learn how to master the multiple quote reply function - please be patient with me.:o

 

JunPOA - here's a formatting tip - if you look at the formatting toolbar right above the box where you type in your text, you'll see various formatting icons (B, I etc. for bolding/italics, and the usual other text formatting stuff). Look at the icon that looks like a cartoon text bubble - the fourth one over from the right. If, while you're typing out a post, you highlight the text you want to quote, then click on that icon, it will put quotes around it and once you post it, it will show up in the box.

 

(I know, off-topic - but I've struggled with formatting issues like this until someone did the same thing and told ME how to do it!)

 

Now back to the topic - I have a really hard time determining which is MORE important when cruise planning: the ports or the ship. I'm not sure I can say one is more important to me than another. Part of that is probably because I became horribly SPOILED on my Regent cruises, and I HATE HATE HATE the idea of going back! But I'm trying to be realistic in my planning.

 

As of now, the only cruise I have on the books is the 13-day Celebrity Ancient Empires cruise on their as-yet-unbuilt Equinox ship. But I've been salivating over another PG cruise - that is still the best game in town for a French Polynesia experience, and I'm trying to talk Hubby into it.

 

I do agree with you. What I found a bit political was questioning whether or not the depressed economy was real. I was coming from the position that it doesn't really matter. If you're paying such high prices for "staple" items -- it does not necessarily mean "recession", however, it is challenging and could/does affect the future of any type of recreational spending. :) .

Agree 100%!

 

And Ragnar, I'm not sure Las Vegas would be the best place to go to see direct evidence of an economic downturn...

[canadagal]

Thanks Host Dan!

 

Well Bill, I'll tell you what - I don't know about you, but when I'm on vacation I try not to talk (or think) about depressing things like an economic downturn. I worry more about that in the planning stages...when trying to decide whether or not I can afford to go! :)

 

 

I couldn't agree more with your statement LeeAnne and I would add that I don't discuss politics or religion either. We all go on vacation to try and escape for a while so heavy subjects are completely off my radar then. Ragnar, Vegas will continue to boom as long as the trade shows go there......that's what's feeding that town.....not the ordinary visitor. I don't know about you being the Rodney Dangerfield of CC but I find your posts very amusing and I at least appreciate you when you drop in with that sense of humor of yours.

Pat

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

"I don't know about you being the Rodney Dangerfield"

 

I tell ya, I don't get no respect...

[canadagal]

"I don't know about you being the Rodney Dangerfield"

 

I tell ya, I don't get no respect...

 

Aaaah, sure you do......as much as the rest of us!

Pat

[surfklutz]

I think the families of the 150,000 troops in Iraq would take GREAT EXCEPTION to that statement!

 

I do not completely follow your logic on this one - sorry.

[DavidJ]

I do not completely follow your logic on this one - sorry.

 

We were not at war during the Carter years. Imagine having a loved one in Iraq and also dealing with today's economy. Not exactly a cakewalk. I'll take the Carter years anyday over what we have now.

 

I see today's economy affecting most people's decisions. My guess is it will affect the cruising industry, even the Luxury segment. In the field I have expertise in which is housing, the Luxury segment is showing increasing signs of stress.

[lord of the seas]

Come to London,Petrol is $10 a gallon. :eek:

[esther e]

We were on the Mariner for twelve days in April and we met a lot of people at the pool and the lounges. Not one person menioned the economy or shampoo. The only line that I waited on was to book our next Regent cruise.

 

Bill, I am so unhappy. I was hoping to get into a discussion about shampoos with conditioners vs. shampoos and separate conditioners!!! Sigh.:o

 

Rag, come to Florida. Gas is dirt cheap. $3.65 yesterday. But that's not OC, I forgot!!!!!:D

 

Esther

[Iamboatman]

Well, in New Jersey I filled up yesterday for $3.39. Ya know, with all the money I am saving (yeah, right) I might be able to afford a luxury cruise even sooner.:rolleyes:

[FFMilesJunkie]

"P.S. I do remember that the economy is not affecting the OC:)"

 

"(except the OC, of course!)"

 

 

Poor Ragnar is the Rodney Dangerfield of CruiseCritic :(

 

 

But speaking of the economy, Ol' Ragnar was out annoying the good folks of Las Vegas last week, for work reasons (at a trade show). No sign of a bad economy* there, that I could see, the place was hopping mid-week. We stayed at the Wynn (on the company nickel, fortunately) and it was pretty full (all suites booked, at least). Went to two shows at the Wynn, on a Tueday and a Thursday, one was full and the other almost full. Casinos seemed as crowded (and smokey...) as usual. Restaurants seemed packed.

 

Drove back on Friday morning and the traffic to/from SoCal was heavy (no accidents, fortunately).

 

However, even Ol' Ragnar noticed that gas was over $4/gal :eek:

 

* - Ol' Ragnar knows that the speculative housing bubble in Las Vegas, especially condo towers, has burst big-time.

 

No disrespect, but even Las Vegas is feeling the pain. Tropicana declared bankruptcy this morning and for only the 2nd time since 1970, gaming revenues are down on the strip (the other time was 2001-2002 after 9/11). Revenues are down 4% this year. http://www.newsweek.com/id/135638

 

This indirectly affects Regent since Apollo has a huge stake in Vegas now with their purchase of the Caesar/Harrah's properties. If the Harrah's investment does not bring in the anticipated profits, Apollo is going to have to make it up somewhere else. This may not affect the Apollo Cruise Holding side of the house at all.

 

Perception is reality to many Americans, so whether we are technically in a recession is of little meaning. I'm bullish on the economy in the long run, but it's not pretty right now in many areas of the country.

[AbeFrohman]

We were not at war during the Carter years. Imagine having a loved one in Iraq and also dealing with today's economy. Not exactly a cakewalk. I'll take the Carter years anyday over what we have now.

 

I see today's economy affecting most people's decisions. My guess is it will affect the cruising industry, even the Luxury segment. In the field I have expertise in which is housing, the Luxury segment is showing increasing signs of stress.

 

I live in Washington DC and the only segment of the housing market that ISN'T showing stress is the luxury segment. My company(real estate) is doing very well mainly because rich people always have money to buy houses and anything else they desire.

[Iamboatman]

Harrah's is not doing well either.

 

Actually on CNN this past weekend they interviewed a number of people in Vegas and the comments were essentially that they were either their on a convention paid for by their company or it was a vacation prepaid long ago. No one said that they were doing well and it was just a vacation. I don't know how the interviews were edited, but there is a consistency in comment.

[Travelcat2]

Maybe the Pacific Northwest should be getting their gas elsewhere -- we're at $3.89 and have refineries here.

 

I was quite surprised about the Tropicana declaring bankruptcy. The summer months may ease things a bit -- they do get tourism from around the world. Our local airport (Bellingham International -- the size of Wal-Mart) has an airline (Allegiant) that is actually making money -- they fly direct to Las Vegas -- usually filled to capacity with our northern neighbors (Vancouver, B.C.)

 

We currently have three cruises booked (more than usual) and do not plan on cancelling any of them. However, we are not even thinking beyond February, 2009 (except for the U.K. where we don't have to convert our U.S. currency). I'm sure we'll cruise again -- just not certain how many cut-backs there will be on the luxury lines -- will all of the projected new ships be built? -- lots of questions. While I'm not opposed to higher end mass market lines, the ships are way too large. Guess we're taking a "wait and see attitude".

 

 

P.S.'s

esther e -- your post reminded me to add shampoo and conditioner to my packing list;)

 

lord of the seas -- isn't a pint of beer around close to $10?

 

Ragner -- I'm enjoying the "OC" references. . . I actually have family there:cool:

[DavidJ]

On our first (Radisson) Regent cruise, Mary Kay had a large group on the Voyager. I have to wonder if corporate bookings will be affected in the luxury cruise segment. I wouldn't mind less corporate bookings, but I am sure Regent would.

[quepaquete]

What I found a bit political was questioning whether or not the depressed economy was real. I was coming from the position that it doesn't really matter. If you're paying such high prices for "staple" items -- it does not necessarily mean "recession", however, it is challenging and could/does affect the future of any type of recreational spending.

 

Me need to consider demographics in the whole picture. Most people don't think about the fact that baby boomers have been driving the economy. With baby boomers reaching retirement, their spending is going to slow down. Let's face it, when people are working and have a high income they spend more. Even people who have accumulated a substancial retirement fund would cut on spending when they retire. Why?? well, most people would have to pay for their own health insurance, which at that age it's very expensive, income from investements or pensions is usually less than salaries. The list goes on, and on.....

To make matters worse, if they need to start taking withdrawals from their retirement plans on a down market, it can really hurt. And what if taxes go up??? All those tax deferred investements are fully taxable. In other words, I think we are facing a roller coaster ride in the near future.

I mentioned a short video from the former Comptroller General for the US. Mr David Walker. Even if you don't believe what he is saying it would give a diferent point of view. And if you want to learn more about how demographics can affect the economy, then google Harry Dent Jr.

 

How all this relates to the luxury cruise market??? Well, IMHO the luxury market is going to hurt some, the middle and lower class is going to really hurt. The super wealthy won't be affected, and since they charter their own yachts, the cruise cruise industry won't benefit much from them.

[beaniele]

I would hope that I NEVER chose a cruise line/ship based on the shampoo they offer!!! Good Grief!

'

 

I read the reviews of Regents new shampoo's and got all excited and worried, I know stupid. We just got off the Mariner for a 23 day voyage and the products in our Silver Seas suite were wonderful. We had the Regent brand and then another brand Anichini. Loved both products. So what I am trying to say is we love the Mariner, and found the service fantastic, the food great, and the bath products better than before.

[canadagal]

The Tropicana has been on it's last legs for years.......long before this current down turn. The resort hasn't been updated in decades and if you have ever read any of the reviews on tripadvisor you would never stay there. Too bad, as many, many moons ago it was a nice place (the tower) and had one of the nicer pool areas on the strip. Sadly not any more. The rumor about how it needs to be torn down has been circulating for a long time. Every time I return for a trade show to Vegas I'm surprised to still see it standing.

Pat

[Dolebludger]

I read a book titled The Millionaire Net Door. The premise was how many millionaires (not multi) there actually are, and how little being one buys you. So, as lux cruises prices rise, the "plain old millionaires" fall out of the market. There will always be the "uber rich" for whom lux cruise price increases don't count for much. They'll continue to take lux cruises -- why shouldn't they? So the question is whether there are enough "uber rich" to fill lux ships.

[Leejnd4]

I read a book titled The Millionaire Net Door. The premise was how many millionaires (not multi) there actually are, and how little being one buys you.

Hey these days, in my city, all it takes is to have bought a basic tract home anything more than ten years ago to become a millionaire - at least on paper! Not that it does you much good if you need to keep living in the area. Although it's certainly tempting to sell your home, cash out, and go buy a cottage somewhere in the midwest...but then, we still work and have kids at home so I guess THAT'S out. And by the time we might be at a point to actually consider doing that, the bottom will probably have fallen out of the local housing market and we'll be right back where we started! :p

[esther e]

We are back where we started, on purpose. We started with a little starter house; moved to a big house while raising the kids; retired, moved and are back in a little house. Good thing about little houses: you can't have company stay over or feed more than 4 people. Works for us:D

[canadagal]

Esther, that's exactly what my sister had to do. They bought such a tiny condo so that her kids wouldn't want to move back again. It was the only way they could get them to stop sleeping over and moving in for months at a time. I still have one left at home, 2 on their own and I can't wait to actually down size.

Pat

[esther e]

Pat, it's also easier to clean a small house!!!!!!!!