Art Auctions

[hospsafe]

Below is a link for a report on art auctions at sea that a local tv station in Orlando is doing.

 

Art Auctions At Sea Investigated - Orlando News Story - WKMG Orlando

[Pia1913]

Below is a link for a report on art auctions at sea that a local tv station in Orlando is doing.

 

Art Auctions At Sea Investigated - Orlando News Story - WKMG Orlando

 

To me, cruise ship art auctions are another form of entertainment. And like everything else you buy, if you think it's worth it; it's worth it. Through the years we have purchased several inexpensive pieces of art, but the "buyers premium" , shipping, etc. have now made us shy away from it. Still though, an interesting form of entertainment. And the free champagne for those who imbibe (we don't) makes it more fun.

 

Pia

 

P.S. If I buy "one of a kind" I would expect to be able to take it off the ship with me. Not so.

[Dorset Cruiser]

Oh No and I actually succumbed on my latest cruise and bought a work of art. Not in the auction but at the wine and cheese art sale. I hope I have not been sold a dud but actually I only paid $280 for a Norman Rockwell framed print - so I wouldn't be too much out of pocket:p

[Simru12]

We got two pieces on our first Princess cruise. A limited edition, numbered Frank Worth photo, and a signed/numbered hand embellished Todd White. I thought they were a little pricey when we got them, given all the additions Pia mentioned, but fortunately they have gone up in value. We just got 'em 'cause we liked 'em.

 

Reminds me of a joke I heard once..... All the of Art Schools and all of the training and all of the experience in the Art World really means nothing. People are still going to buy the painting that matches their couch.

[hillslife]

We are very cautious about our art purchases also and have gotten 4-5 pieces over the years that we like for our home from the Princess art auctions. I enjoy learning about the artists, watching others bid and looking at the art.

 

A few years ago we were also snookered by Park West on two Peter Max originals - and we eventually got our $10,000 returned. I will NOT purchase from Park West and won't even go to their auctions.

 

Even at sea, it is buyer beware and the auctioneers do have a way of sweeping you up into the flurry of bidding - especially after a couple glasses of champagne to relax you :rolleyes:

[bhopal21]

All of these horror stories that I have read about the auctions tell me that the buyers did not know what they were buying and got caught up in the presentation and overspent.

 

Have there been any actual cases of fraud or substitution of one piece of artwork for another, etc?

 

Mike:)

[chasetf]

Seems to me a lot of buyers remorse.

 

Just about anything you buy can be found cheaper somewhere else. Art is a commodity that fluctuates wildly in price. For someone to be upset because they paid twice what someone else did just shows they did not do their homework.

 

Anyone that believes everything a sales person tells them...... be it art, autos, diamonds, insurance, or whatever they are thinking about buying....... and does not do their own due diligence.......deserves to be fleeced. ;)

[Spender Nui]

I continue to think these art (or lack thereof) auctions are a disgrace. As long as the uneducated art buyers pay too much for too little the cruise lines will continue to promote them and reap the excessive profits.

 

I'm surprised that I don't see more of them (while they're sitting in the way obstructing passage) with more holes kicked in them than I have.

[Rowtyd]

Oh No and I actually succumbed on my latest cruise and bought a work of art. Not in the auction but at the wine and cheese art sale. I hope I have not been sold a dud but actually I only paid $280 for a Norman Rockwell framed print - so I wouldn't be too much out of pocket:p

 

I fear you bought a Norma Rockfell :D

[bhopal21]

I continue to think these art (or lack thereof) auctions are a disgrace. As long as the uneducated art buyers pay too much for too little the cruise lines will continue to promote them and reap the excessive profits.

 

Don't go to the auctions if you don't know what you are buying.:rolleyes:

 

An uneducated art buyer is no different than an uneducated diamond (or other precious stone) buyer.

 

If you KNOW what you are buying, that is one thing; if not then you need to wait and buy at home from someone you trust.

 

I attend auctions at least weekly and they are all pretty much the same, you had better do your homework before you bid whether it be real estate, art, cars, coins etc.

 

If you get excited over something coming up, you will regret it later.

 

Mike:)

[iancal]

Gee....I hope that Norman Rockwell was signed and numbered.

 

There is no question in my mind that the cruise lines that offer this do so because it attracts significant revenue. My opinion is that it is a disreputable practice and the onus should be on the cruise lines to clean it up or eliminate it. Unfortunately, revenue per passenger day prevails.

[JLC@SD]

.....I like to drop in the Art Auctions and Casino.......and watch all the fools.......get parted from their money.........:D

[Rowtyd]

I knew there was a probem when I won art in raffles at the auctions but had to pay $50-200 to get my "winnings".

 

Rule of thumb: If money comes out of your pocket, you actually didn't "win" anything.

[jhaasz]

Being a purchaser, I just had to respond. :)

 

I have bought "inexpensive" works of art just because I like them and they look good in my home. :)

 

I was dying to buy a Peter Maxx and finally had the means to do it. It's mixed media, which means it is a lithograph that was hand embellished and originally signed by Peter Maxx - and yes, I did buy it from Park West - and I absolutely love it!!! And, that's what it's all about - loving the art. :) If you don't love something that expensive and are buying it just for an investment, I personally think it's a waste.

 

Having said that, funny story. My husband and I were looking at a preview the night before an art auction (Park West). We were speaking to the auctioneer as we had just been on the same ship six weeks prior (didn't buy anything that time) and it was a different auctioneer. Well, the guy was pretty honest and told us that the previous auctioneer auctioned off a mixed media Peter Maxx but told the audience that it was an original Peter Maxx - and proceeded to get about $10K for the artwork. Well, I know it's hard to find an original Peter Maxx for that kind of money (and the size). When the product was delivered to the buyer's house, oh boy, they were on the phone to Park West immediately, knowing it was not an original painting (trust me, you can tell the difference between mixed media and an original painting). Park West refunded them the money and proceed to fire the auctioneer.

 

When we went on Princess, the auctioneer actually gave us his personal business card as we bought a beautiful Wyland lithograph (and love it). He owned a Wyland gallery and told us to come visit anytime. I personally don't think that someone who ripped me off would give me their personal contact information. :)

 

Again, it's like buying jewelry in the Caribbean - buyer beware - know before you go. :)

[drakes2]

On our last cruise my Mum purchased a beautiful print for $45. Her limit was $50 for it. She loves her print and had a lot of fun bidding. She's 74 and it was her first cruise and a wonderful memory.

All of these horror stories that I have read about the auctions tell me that the buyers did not know what they were buying and got caught up in the presentation and overspent.

 

Have there been any actual cases of fraud or substitution of one piece of artwork for another, etc?

 

Mike:)

[jetwet1]

On our last cruise we bought a signed Goddard, the wife loved it so what can I say.

 

The painting on display was 1-300

 

We received 1 -1000

 

Not much difference in the street value, but when I made mention of this Princess's reaction was enough to ensure that I never buy another painting on a Princess ship.

 

So word to the wise, if you are buying a limited edition, make sure the numbers are noted on your recipt, learn from my silly mistake.

[JLC@SD]

Being a purchaser, I just had to respond. :)

 

I have bought "inexpensive" works of art just because I like them and they look good in my home. :)

 

I was dying to buy a Peter Maxx and finally had the means to do it. It's mixed media, which means it is a lithograph that was hand embellished and originally signed by Peter Maxx - and yes, I did buy it from Park West - and I absolutely love it!!! And, that's what it's all about - loving the art. :) If you don't love something that expensive and are buying it just for an investment, I personally think it's a waste.

 

Having said that, funny story. My husband and I were looking at a preview the night before an art auction (Park West). We were speaking to the auctioneer as we had just been on the same ship six weeks prior (didn't buy anything that time) and it was a different auctioneer. Well, the guy was pretty honest and told us that the previous auctioneer auctioned off a mixed media Peter Maxx but told the audience that it was an original Peter Maxx - and proceeded to get about $10K for the artwork. Well, I know it's hard to find an original Peter Maxx for that kind of money (and the size). When the product was delivered to the buyer's house, oh boy, they were on the phone to Park West immediately, knowing it was not an original painting (trust me, you can tell the difference between mixed media and an original painting). Park West refunded them the money and proceed to fire the auctioneer.

 

When we went on Princess, the auctioneer actually gave us his personal business card as we bought a beautiful Wyland lithograph (and love it). He owned a Wyland gallery and told us to come visit anytime. I personally don't think that someone who ripped me off would give me their personal contact information. :)

 

Again, it's like buying jewelry in the Caribbean - buyer beware - know before you go. :)

 

......by the way.......Pete..........he spells his name with one x......Max....:D

[JLC@SD]

On our last cruise we bought a signed Goddard, the wife loved it so what can I say.

 

The painting on display was 1-300

 

We received 1 -1000

 

Not much difference in the street value, but when I made mention of this Princess's reaction was enough to ensure that I never buy another painting on a Princess ship.

 

So word to the wise, if you are buying a limited edition, make sure the numbers are noted on your recipt, learn from my silly mistake.

 

It can make a difference......usually the smaller group 1 -300 are the Artist's Proof.......more valuable.......and the larger run 1 - 1000 are the regular limited edition.

[Times Prince]

Gee....I hope that Norman Rockwell was signed and numbered.

 

There is no question in my mind that the cruise lines that offer this do so because it attracts significant revenue. My opinion is that it is a disreputable practice and the onus should be on the cruise lines to clean it up or eliminate it. Unfortunately, revenue per passenger day prevails.

Signed and numbered Normal Rockwell's are > $2,000, even on the reputable online web sites. At $280, assuming Dorset Cruiser didn't drop a zero when typing, the price was about right for a framed unsigned print such as one would get at a department store.

 

While I am certain Princess Fine Arts is making a profit on the deal, the art I have purchased has maintained its value when compared with reputable art dealers, and in several cases are the harder to get selections from the artist. In several cases the framed, signed and numbered "originals" cost less than it would for us to get a photo print framed locally. Certainly for the higher priced pictures they sell, the buyer should be concious about the price and quality. There are good art galleries online, like Teri Galleries, that would provide those comparisons, and one should consult them to establish a baseline.

 

The problems with Park West are continually brought up on the Princess forum. While the companies offer similar services onboard, Princess Fine Arts has maintained its good reputation, and in my opinion, value. I find references to these articles similar to saying "Beware of Dell computers because someone had a bad experience with a Compaq (or name your other company here)". The brush stroke painted in garish colors by the articles about Park West experiences shouldn't color one's opinions about Princess Fine Arts.

[hospsafe]

The reason why I posted is because since I have been coming to cruise critic there has been many discussions regarding these auctions regardless of the company doing them. This is the first investigative news report that I have seen anyone do on these auctions.

 

Due to the nature of my work, fraud examiner in the hospitality field, I am naturally skeptical of things like these...of course I one of those who still over pay for the spa treatments. I just cant help myself when it comes to a stone massage. Hopefully I will have the self discipline not to do it on my Alaska cruise in June.

[bhopal21]

..of course I one of those who still over pay for the spa treatments. I just cant help myself when it comes to a stone massage. Hopefully I will have the self discipline not to do it on my Alaska cruise in June.

 

At least you don't try to sue after you get home claiming that the massage was inferior.:D

 

These auctions are just that, auctions. The buyer sets the price and if they over pay they have no one to blame other than themselves unless the piece was misrepresented.:(

 

Mike:)

[Simru12]

An interesting aside here....

 

I'm going on another Princess cruise in July and went to the Park West Gallery website to see what the current inventory is, as I would love to get another Todd White.

 

Under the list of artists, the names Todd White, Peter Max, Robert Wyland, and many more popular artists, are mysteriously missing. Given the number of originals, prints, giclees and lithos of these artisits work, I find it hard to believe the gallery is 'out of stock'. Maybe these people just don't want to be represented by Park West any longer.

 

Not based on fact, just my opinion.

[Smiles3usa]

Anyone that believes everything a sales person tells them...... deserves to be fleeced. ;)

 

No one, no matter how naive, unskilled, ignorant or perhaps just plain lazy DESERVES to be fleeced. Yeah, yeah....I agree, buyer beware. But because some are able to take advantage of others does not mean that anyone deserves to be taken advantage of. They don't!

[blackwing]

I agree with some of the comments upthread that say that you should buy art because you enjoy it, and not necessarily because you think it's a great investment. Personally, I enjoy the art auctions. I like looking at the artwork and think it's a fun time.

 

I love how the cruise ship art auctioneers are always talking about "original" this and "original" that. It was especially funny when he was talking about an "original" Rembrandt. To hear the gasps and oohs and aahs made me think that I must have been sailing with some incredibly gullible people, to think that an "original" Rembrandt somehow ended up in the hands of a guy on a cruise ship.

 

Technically, they are not lying, you are buying an "original" lithograph. "Lithograph" is just a fancy way of saying "print". I suspect that the person who bought the Norman Rockwell really bought a lithograph.

 

It's true that some of the ships do seem to have original painted works but not for the kind of deals they are making them out to be.

[hillslife]

Simru 12 - Princess has their own art auction department. The art work is owned and auctioned by Princess. They do not use Park West on the Princess ships.